74 replies to this topic

[Turn]

I've always felt with the majority of Bond films the last acts are less exciting than the first two. Don't they say getting there is half the fun?

While the raid on the Russian air base is rather low key, the excitement is in the plane with Bond and Necros. That fight on the net is one of the great fight and suspense sequences of the series for me. And add to that the way Maibaum and Wilson continue to build the suspense just when you think the climax was hit. Bond gets the plane in the air, Necros attacks Bond, they fight outside the plane, the bomb still has to be dealt with, Kara nearly crashes into a mountain, Bond drops the bomb, they have to escape as the plane runs out. It just keeps things going.

I also like the low-key way Bond takes care of Whitaker, kind of like a sequence out of the book rather than a big grandiose thing during the big action sequence.

[Iceskater101]

I feel like the ending was a little anti-clematic. I mean he goes to see this General Whitaker and there wasn't that good of a fight scene, oh a statue tipped over him, he's dead yay. I mean that was a little anti-clematic, but otherwise I actually rather enjoy this Bond film.

[seawolfnyy]

I feel like the ending was a little anti-clematic. I mean he goes to see this General Whitaker and there wasn't that good of a fight scene, oh a statue tipped over him, he's dead yay. I mean that was a little anti-clematic, but otherwise I actually rather enjoy this Bond film.

Whitaker and Koskov for that matter are among the series' weakest villains. The way Whitaker is done in is pretty lame. I especially can't figure out why, when Bond for the most part has a clear shot at Whitaker just fires 8 bullets into his bullet proof shield. Wouldn't he realize that isn't working after the first or second?

[glidrose]

The way Whitaker is done in is pretty lame. I especially can't figure out why, when Bond for the most part has a clear shot at Whitaker just fires 8 bullets into his bullet proof shield. Wouldn't he realize that isn't working after the first or second?

Agreed. It was lame at the time and it's still lame. In fairness, Whitaker wears a bullet proof vest. The plastic shield protected his face. But unless he's wearing a bullet proof jockstrap why didn't Bond aim for the gonads? Speak now or forever hold his piece. And even if Whitaker is wearing one I'm not sure he'd like to get hit there: ask any cop who's ever been hit in the chest with a bullet even while wearing a bullet proof vest: can still result in broken bones from the force of impact.

[Iceskater101]

Yeah I feel like that blonde dude died in a better way. Whitaker was definitely a weak villain. The Living Daylights though is still a pretty good Bond film though he is so weak.

[Trevelyan 006]

I'd liked the lead up to the end of the film... but i think it was the delivery that lacked.

I like that Bond sneaks into Whitaker's compound and i love the setting of the gunfight scene, including the bugle and war noises. Even the lighting is great.

Whitaker just could have ended in a more interesting way. As Iceskater said, very anti-climatic.

Edited by Trevelyan 006, 13 November 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[seawolfnyy]

I agree that Necros had a far more badass death. He's also one of the only good characters (and the only one that's a villain) in TLD. I don't think TLD falls apart in the third act, I think it has great action pieces and a great story. What it needed was a better cast of characters. Kara, Whitaker, Koskov, Saunders, Rosika all should have been recast and further refined.

[PPK_19]

I've always thought of Necros as the main villain in TLD since Koskov is so terribly weak in every way. Weak face, no physical presence. Extremely anti-climatic when he was lead away by Pushkin's men, in a 'diplomatic bag'. Ugh.

[Iceskater101]

He is, I mean he is a bad ass. Koskovs is just a scared little boy most of the time.

[Gothamite]

Everytime I watch the film, I can't help the feeling that Mike Myers may have used Koskov's mannerisms and personality as the primary influence for Dr. Evil. :-P

[iBond]

I thought the ending was a bit disappointing. I mean, once the big climactic little war happened, I felt that was it. After that they didn't need to have the whole last minute killing of Whittaker. It felt very anti-climactic. Yes, he had to die, but the writers should have done it in a better way in my opinion.

Edited by iBond, 04 December 2012 - 03:37 AM.

[Turn]

Not a great villain, so not a great final confrontation, not like Bond and Goldfinger or Bond and Klebb, etc. It got what it deserved for a more low-key Bond film. Maybe it would have been more dramatic and interesting to have Koskov playing the two against each other.

[FOX MULDER]

The girl Kara ruins it for me. I find her wholly unconvincing, both the character and the actress's performance. Dalton was superb.

 

I agree with the thread - the film does fall away considerably towards the end. 

[Iceskater101]

^ I semi agree with that, I feel like she is too needy "James I was so worried for you!" It's like c'mon seriously?

[Yellow Pinky]

The first time I saw TLD I found the ending very anti-climactic as well.  However, upon repeat viewings, I now see the final confrontation with Whitaker as the movie's epilogue, a sort of book end to the PTS at Gibraltar.  Looking at it that way makes it more palatable, but doesn't remove the silliness of not shooting Whitaker in the knees to drop him instead of firing all those shots at the bullet-proof shield.

[Satorious]

I have an early (and uncompleted version of the script - dated sometime in 1986). The ending seemed quite a bit different in that from what I recall, I should dig it out and take a look - as I forget. I believe it was more anti-climatic (but it was an unfinished draft) and I recall Pushkin was called Gogol. I don't think it had any of the Russian Airbase stuff in it at that point - so they obviously had the opening 2 acts down, but the 3rd act was in flux.

[B5Erik]

I have no problem with the 3rd act.  The movie builds to an action crescendo in Afghanistan as we see the endgame.  The airbase stuff is exciting and the cargo net fight is unique. 

 

It may not be the best ending to a Bond movie, but it's nowhere near the weakest.  I'd put it in the top 10 Bond movie endings.

[RMc2]

100

 

I just finished watching TLD for the first time in a year or so and I absolutely adored every single second of the entire film up until Bond gets drugged and put on the plane with Kara, headed for the Russian Airbase.

Up until that point, the film is a bloody terrific Cold-War thriller in the old-style. The action is brutal (but not gratuitously violent, like in LTK), Bond is a cold, manipulative (and yet human) killer and the SIS seems like a real intelligence organisation. The pacing is second-to-none and all of the actors (I love the guy who plays Saunders) perform admirably. I even love the Aston Martin chase and it never feels out of place with the rest of the film. The scene where Bond confronts Pushkin has to be one of the top 5 Bond moments ever.

The film just comes to a screeching halt for me when it gets to Afghanistan and plays like a cheap Cannon Chuck Norris film with lots of mindless machine-gunning, up until the plane fight with Necros, after which it dwindles once again. It just got very dull in what was designed to be the most exciting part of the film. Plus, the plot suddenly turned towards diamonds, followed by Opium, all wrapped up in weapons smuggling. It was difficult to keep track of what was going on and I don't think I cared anymore. Does anyone else have similar feelings?
 

 

Totally agree! Apart from the Necros fight the last third of the film is a huge mess of a let-down. Don't get me started on Brad Whitaker... The Afghan battle is so stupid and out of place compared to the rest of the film; it's almost like slapstick.

 

Sometimes I just watch the first hour and a bit, then skip to the plane fight. Then credits. That's a nearly 5-star Bond experience.

Edited by RMc, 10 December 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[iBond]

The one time Kara really steps up to the plate and take the initiative, is when she decides to follow James and the convoy after Shah doesn't want to.

[Panavision]

The root of the problem is that Necros is really not the main villain that Bond should be fighting in the cargo hold - it should have been Koskov. Unfortunately, the way Koskov was written, he'd run and hide rather than fight. And Whitaker should have been cut out completely. Koskov and Necros makes more sense, both undermining the Russian government for their own needs. A View to a Kill's ending was right, Bond battling the MAIN villain Zorin, and also LTK, Bond battling Sanchez.

 

The Living Daylights has still the best 1st act of any Bond film, lots of suspense and intrigue, it captured the Bond world as I had envisioned in my head. By the time the film reaches Afghanistan, it does loose steam, but there's so much to enjoy. I think that cargo net fight is AMAZING. The root problem is the villains, they are just not strong enough opponents for Bond, well, Necros is, but he's just a henchman.

 

Also, another problem was that Michael Wilson overcomplicates the plot. Maibaum is the writer and he should have been making the necessary changes because he's way better at structure. 

[solace]

Have to agree here. Imo tld loses its edge from about Afganistan onwards. Its one of the series which goes down in my estimation more each year that passes regretably

[Arch Stanton]

I have no problem with the movie's 3rd act. I SUPPOSE you can say that the Whittiker/Bond showdown is underwhellming, but I agree with other posters that it's the epilogue to the film, and it's perfectly FINE being low-key. I look at the 3rd act like I look at From Russia With Loves 3rd act. Necros = Grant. Fight off back of plane = Fight in train carriage. Further plane stuff = Bond and Tanya getting off train and their boat journey. Bond vs. Whittiker = Bond vs. Klebb. The villians in the respective films are similar with each other overall, with no main villian in the traditional Bond-ian sense. But I look at Necros and Grant as the main villianous characters that Bond faces off most with in these films. Koskov and Whittiker orchestrate the scheme like Kronstein and Klebb do. Yeah, yeah, the similarities aren't EXACT, but in a general sense that's how I've always looked at it.

[Iceskater101]

The one time Kara really steps up to the plate and take the initiative, is when she decides to follow James and the convoy after Shah doesn't want to.

 

I know.. seriously. That was the one time I actually liked this Bond girl.

[seawolfnyy]

 

The one time Kara really steps up to the plate and take the initiative, is when she decides to follow James and the convoy after Shah doesn't want to.

 

I know.. seriously. That was the one time I actually liked this Bond girl.

 

It still isn't enough to make me like her, unfortunately.

[AMC Hornet]

But she's such a sweetie!

[hilly]

I think TLD is great- right up until the final scene at the theatre. The whole roll-call of characters who gather to watch Kara play just feels very corny. I know you shouldn't expect 100% realism from a Bond Film, but the heads of the KGB, MI6 and the Afghan resistance merrily turning up to watch a concert recital is a little silly and a throwback to the lighter tone of AVTAK that EON insisted The Living Daylights was moving the series away from.

Up until that point I have no problem with the film at all. I think the Afghanistan scenes play very well, they look great and they open up the whole scale and range of the film, creating a good contrast to the snow scenes and the raid on the Blayden safehouse etc

[Iceskater101]

But she's such a sweetie!

 

She's obnoxious for pretty much the whole movie.

[AMC Hornet]

 

But she's such a sweetie!

 

She's obnoxious for pretty much the whole movie.

 

We seem to have different definitions of obnoxious, Icy.

[Iceskater101]

 

 

But she's such a sweetie!

 

She's obnoxious for pretty much the whole movie.

 

We seem to have different definitions of obnoxious, Icy.

 

 

I guess so, lol

[IcedCamaro]

But she's such a sweetie!

 

She's obnoxious for pretty much the whole movie.

 

Aww... I admit she isn't the most pallatable, but she does play the "naive cellist" gig convincingly, which is what they were going for. I do have to say there are bits I found myself hollering at the screen like... "woman, do something!" especially during the fight between Bond and the russian jailer. She just stood there watching like a deer caught in the headlights while Bond was really sweating it. (and she can be a sweety at times).

Edited by IcedCamaro, 31 January 2013 - 07:00 PM.