Our positions are entrenched. Our opinions purely subjective. Our rationals and attitudes thoroughly stubborn.
I'll start. David Arnold's Bond music is awesome.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:50 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:02 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:13 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:23 PM
I highly approve of this. Since you are making an entire topic of this and if Sharky has accepted the proposition, I suggest like any good debate, topics and perimeters should be established decided between yourselves and moderated through the members.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:27 PM
Here's what's going to happen: Shark will defend his opinion with intricately technical musical knowledge, and I will scream back at him that "It sounds like John Barry, leave him alone!"
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:34 PM
QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
Edited by x007AceOfSpades, 02 October 2012 - 02:43 PM.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:36 PM
QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
'Pursuit At Port Au Prince' is where you can hear some parts of AWTD in that score track, that's about it as far as I know.
Hope this is what you meant.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:40 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:24 PM
Hardly. Perhaps it's just classic misdirection. You see, father, I remember my Art of War.
AWTD is all over the QOS score. It's in Time to Get Out, Oil Fields, multiple places...
'Pursuit At Port Au Prince' is where you can hear some parts of AWTD in that score track, that's about it as far as I know. Hope this is what you meant.QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:56 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:28 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:42 PM
Hardly. Perhaps it's just classic misdirection. You see, father, I remember my Art of War.
AWTD is all over the QOS score. It's in Time to Get Out, Oil Fields, multiple places...
'Pursuit At Port Au Prince' is where you can hear some parts of AWTD in that score track, that's about it as far as I know. Hope this is what you meant.QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
Wow, I really enjoy the QoS soundtrack and yet I completely miss it!!!! I'll give it a re-listen and amend my position to TND and DAD as being egregious cases where the title track and soundtrack have no relationship.
It's a personal thing - but I do like them to be integrated. And clearly so does Arnold, as Surrender runs through TND, and in no way do I apportion responsibility to him. I know there are Arnold critics out there (not really me) - it's in his defense that that he's sometimes had half a hand tied behind his back.
Edited by Gt Munn, 02 October 2012 - 05:43 PM.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:45 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:47 PM
Tomorrow Never Dies is my least favorite song, it's bland and Crow's vocals don't exactly make it better (at least in my opinion) Always liked Surrender much more.
Edited by Gt Munn, 02 October 2012 - 05:47 PM.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:16 PM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:01 PM
What I don't like... he can't write action music. It's noise, plain and simple. Sounds like instruments falling down an empty lift-shaft.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:07 PM
QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
'Pursuit At Port Au Prince' is where you can hear some parts of AWTD in that score track, that's about it as far as I know.
Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:55 PM
Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:54 AM
Compared to wide swaths of the action music in contemporary cinema, Arnold's is miles above IMO. Melody, drive, narrative. The opposite of noise.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:11 AM
Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:13 AM
Jesus you're right! Might as well watch the movie tonight too!
QoS (I still can't find anything from Jack Black's title in the soundtrack).
'Pursuit At Port Au Prince' is where you can hear some parts of AWTD in that score track, that's about it as far as I know.
What's the one where he's in the hotel room looking for stationery? You can hear a verse line there, along the lines of 'Another one with the golden tongue poisoning your fantasy'. Have a listen and sing along!
Also, watch the film. The very last shot of the movie is the necklace in the snow with a single piano note being played over and over. And how does Another Way To Die start and end...?
Edited by x007AceOfSpades, 03 October 2012 - 01:15 AM.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:27 AM
Compared to wide swaths of the action music in contemporary cinema, Arnold's is miles above IMO. Melody, drive, narrative. The opposite of noise.
Arnold's action music for the most part is like a kid with ADD. Its gets caught up on short gestures and orchestral flourishes that catch your attention but don't go anywhere, and feels the need to modulate to a different key every 8 or so bars. Not enough reputation, over-reliance on percussion loops, too many clichés, and no strong overarching design. John Williams's action music is pretty active too (at times balletic), but it's got a harmonic unity and use of the full range of the orchestra that you'll rarely find in Arnold's, which are leaden and lacking in any humour.
It's symptomatic of a middle-aged bloke sitting alone in his studio wearing a hoodie, banging out every orchestral part into a MIDI keyboard, entering them into Sibelius, hearing the sounds played back instantly through GigaStudio, and then letting Nicholas Dodd polish up the rest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hja2ijX6N6w
Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:05 AM
I don't see repetition (I assume you meant) as a critical component of action scores. Is it? If the action itself is inconsistent and constantly changing in terms of setting, pace, or context, should the music not reflect that?
Take TWINE's 'Pipeline', actually one of the most repetitive action tracks in recent memory.
Or do you actually mean 'reputation' in its true sense, IE, lacking a distinctive, definitive, recognizable voice? Because I hear that constantly. It sounds like Bond.
What does 'leaden' mean?
And since we're off to such a civil start, I'll choose to ignore the "middle-aged bloke sitting alone in his studio wearing a hoodie" evaluation as if his birth date or dress sense have any relevancy to the man's ability to write a Bond score.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:22 AM
Film music shouldn't be about replicating what's on screen, but be another character or element in the picture. It can provide atmosphere, commentary, counterpoint, overstate or understate, but it should at least be its own distinct entity. Otherwise what you get is aimless Mickey Mousing, which might (just about) serve the action, but makes for a terrible listening experience.
For the ultimate "Bond sound." Look to John Barry and his main film influence Bernard Herrmann. Less is more. Bond music should walk slow but carry a big stick. Arnold's Bond music I argue does the opposite.
If you're talking about that annoying piano figure then yeah, but apart from that, it's more of the same.
I thought this article did a good summary of Arnold's Bond scores:
"Arnold only appears to complement Barry's style. But, he cheats. He simply traces certain figures familiar to Bond fans and injects them like gravy into a Turkey's innards for flavoring. 75% of Arnold's meandering is furious competing voices in overblown orchestral settings set to thundering drumtracks."
http://www.johnbarry...akes_action.php
It sounds like a poor man's John Barry.
I mean his action music is relentlessly dour and lacking colour. Is there anything as witty as "Moonbuggy Chase" in Arnold's Bond scores?
That said, I guess you argue the fault lies with the films and filmmakers.
Lighten up. It's British humour.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:16 AM
I disagree fundamentally, despite having (probably) similar tastes. I adore listening to film music on its own, but I consider that enjoyment purely a bonus to the experience - its first, and only priority, is serving the image onscreen.
I hear as much melody in his action tracks and as much depth in his ambient work as any other contemporary film composer.
I think I see what you mean, and I don't disagree. But that's more a commentary on how contemporary film scores have changed, no? Is sonic chaos not somewhat a favoured approach, especially within the action genre? I should clarify that I'm not saying Arnold isn't - by times - guilty. I'm saying that in the pantheon of current composers, he's hardly the greatest offender and may actually be, in my opinion, one of the few who actually maintains something of that former approach.?
So repetition's fine unless you personally don't care for it, then it's bad?
Every non-Barry Bond score sounds like a poor man's John Barry.
I've never particularly enjoyed the Moonbuggy Chase - sequence, or music. It's too whimsical for me. It's an instance where Sean's Bond is ramming himself into what would become Roger's mould, and for me, it's one that's just never worked.
Barry understands that the Bond scores are about melody and easily identifiable architectural structures. In their ’60s heyday they were absolutely contemporary, but they are not “pop” scores. They are outrageous but told with a straight face—rather like the films. Look no further than the action cues to see how Barry gets it right and everyone else gets it wrong: His fight cues don’t even score the particular fight—they score the idea of a fight! They are huge but free of clutter, and always melodic. They are the embodiment of “speak softly and carry a big stick,” just like Bond. They never hide behind artifice—each note is what it says it is—but then when Barry wants to, WHAM, he hits you. In contrast, the non-Barry scores emphasize irrelevant pop elements and busy-body action nonsense. The subtlety, glamour and especially melody go out the window. David Arnold has created admirable pastiches of some of Barry’s licks, but too often in the latest Bond films he is reduced to frenetic and therefore meaningless action cues, which seem to be designed, as most “blockbusters” nowadays are, for illiterate teenagers who like wrestling. All of the Bond movies start as intriguing espionage films and end up as action mayhem; they used to take their time falling apart, now they start that way. —L.K.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:22 PM
What I don't like... he can't write action music. It's noise, plain and simple. Sounds like instruments falling down an empty lift-shaft.
Couldn't disagree more. Compared to wide swaths of the action music in contemporary cinema, Arnold's is miles above IMO. Melody, drive, narrative. The opposite of noise.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:32 PM
Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:47 PM
What I don't like... he can't write action music. It's noise, plain and simple. Sounds like instruments falling down an empty lift-shaft.
Couldn't disagree more. Compared to wide swaths of the action music in contemporary cinema, Arnold's is miles above IMO. Melody, drive, narrative. The opposite of noise.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:39 PM
Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:47 PM
Yeah.. well how about Éric Serra eh Comrades?
Anybody? No..?
Then I'll just be going...