138 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

Finished Diamonds. Hmmm. Overall it's good, but I think it's the worst Fleming novel so far. I dunno, it just took absolutely ages to get going, and there's some good stuff in there, but most of it's rather boring. Absolutely loved Bond staging Wints suicide, though. Really enjoyed that part. Wouldn't mind seeing Bond doing something in the same vein in a future Bond movie.

Maybe...

Spoiler

M's death in Skyfall.

But that's just wishful thinking. Thought Tiffany was great, Spang brothers were decent. Nice to see Felix again, but honestly. The one thing that bugged me. How Bond didn't recognise Wint and Kidd. They beat him up, and yet he can't remember who they are when they turn up on the Queen Elizabeth. Nice twist with Wint being on the plane, though.

6/10. Decent.

[Revelator]

Finished Diamonds. Hmmm. Overall it's good, but I think it's the worst Fleming novel so far.

That's the general consensus. Raymond Chandler told Fleming that since Casino Royale he had "disimproved with every book." Fleming took that criticism to heart when he wrote FRWL.

I dunno, it just took absolutely ages to get going, and there's some good stuff in there, but most of it's rather boring.

The book dragged during my first reading as well, but it improves with re-reading. Fleming's impressions of America--which now form a sort of time capsule--are always interesting.

Thought Tiffany was great, Spang brothers were decent

Tiffany's the best aspect of the book. She's the first Bond girl who really seems like a human being, rather than a fantasy. And having Bond deal with her psychological problems humanizes him too. DAF is weak on plot but stronger on character. Besides Tiffany and Felix, the minor villains, like Shady Tree and Wint and Kidd, are instantly memorable. So it's a pity that the Spangs are underwritten, because the ideas behind the characters are visually quite strong (they'd make excellent movie villains). The film of DAF used the twins idea, but apparently the inspiration came less from Fleming than Howard Hughes.

How Bond didn't recognise Wint and Kidd. They beat him up, and yet he can't remember who they are when they turn up on the Queen Elizabeth.

Wint and Kidd wore their hoods when they gave Bond his Brooklyn stomping.

Edited by Revelator, 28 November 2011 - 08:43 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

But what about Bond seeing Wint when he was in the mud bath? When he goes to kill the Jockey? He described him pretty well to Felix.

[glidrose]

That's the general consensus. Raymond Chandler told Fleming that since Casino Royale he had "disimproved with every book."

Chandler wasn't entirely accurate. He loved CR, liked LALD, disliked MR and was mixed about DAF. So Fleming was on the rebound in Chandler's own eyes.

Finished Diamonds. Hmmm. Overall it's good, but I think it's the worst Fleming novel so far. I dunno, it just took absolutely ages to get going, and there's some good stuff in there, but most of it's rather boring.

Couldn't disagree more. Count me among those who grade DAF "vintage Fleming".

[00Twelve]

Hark, I'm sure you'll be all kinds of into FRWL. Hope nobody's spoiled the end for you.

[DamnCoffee]

Unfortuntely I do know the ending. :\

Starting it tonight, can't wait.

[Revelator]

But what about Bond seeing Wint when he was in the mud bath? When he goes to kill the Jockey? He described him pretty well to Felix.

IIRC, Wint wore a hood at that time as well.

[DamnCoffee]

Loving From Russia With Love! Although, I keep seeing this babe as Klebb. Interesting.

[Jeao007]

I also had a tough time getting into reading Diamonds at first, but I still enjoyed it. But once I picked up FRWL, I couldn't put it down. Same thing with OHMSS.

[Chief of SIS]

Just finished TB and I must say, I've always been impressed on how well TB translated from book to film and how much actually was a part of the film.

[The Shark]

That's of course due to its origins as the Fleming/Whittingham/McClory screenplay. It's a very cinematic novel.

[Messervy]

That's of course due to its origins as the Fleming/Whittingham/McClory screenplay. It's a very cinematic novel.

Indeed. Reading it, you clearly gather that it was written with an eventual movie perspective.

[DamnCoffee]

Slowly but steadily making my way through From Russia With Love. Very good stuff. Love Kerim! Also, loved how it took a good few chapters to actually introduce Bond. Grants character is so interesting. Just got past the part where Bond and Kerim dine together. Lovely scene.

[Revelator]

Just finished TB and I must say, I've always been impressed on how well TB translated from book to film and how much actually was a part of the film.

I think that's partly because the filmmakers had little reason to deviate from faithful adaptations at that point, especially since TB already had a large-scale plot. With YOLT the filmmakers put themselves in a quandary wherein it would have been impossible to faithfully adapt the book. And by then they had arrived at a formula which they were content to re-use. That said, while TB is a successful film and adaptation, it lacks much of the heart and soul of the book--movie Domino is flat and bland, while Largo lacks his Satanic charisma--and is needlessly complicated with the plastic surgery/doubling nonsense.

Fleming claimed that in writing the novel he was making "a book of the film." McClory and company knocked him for this in court, but it's significant that when a film finally was made, it followed the book far more closely than the McClory/Whittingham drafts Fleming drew upon. If Thunderball is a cinematic book, that's because its plot is cinematic, thus giving room for Fleming to add his personal stamps of detail and mood without having to worry over the storyline.

Edited by Revelator, 12 December 2011 - 06:43 PM.

[00Twelve]

That said, while TB is a successful film and adaptation, it lacks much of the heart and soul of the book--movie Domino is fat and bland, while Largo lacks his Satanic charisma--and is needlessly complicated with the plastic surgery/doubling nonsense.

Word. I'll go along with all that (provided you meant Domino was flat, not fat)...Largo was like another Drax, or like a cross between Drax and Scaramanga (with a little Major Gonzales thrown in for good measure). I would have liked to have seen the book's finale on screen, Bond and Largo on the ocean floor. The high-speed camerawork during the Disco Volante finale tends to be a little distracting (it helps when it's on a 1080p screen with 120Hz motion).

And yes, the Angelo/Derval mess was smoother in the novel. Felix was much more hands on as well, and not wearing suit and shade combos on the beach like a twit.

[MarkA]

Bond and Largo on the ocean floor

That would not have worked. They tried it in Never Say Never Again. I always think with diving masks on it could be anyone, they had to take it above water so you could see the actors faces. Thunderball (film) ending much better despite the speeded up nonsense.

[00Twelve]

Bond and Largo on the ocean floor

That would not have worked. They tried it in Never Say Never Again. I always think with diving masks on it could be anyone, they had to take it above water so you could see the actors faces. Thunderball (film) ending much better despite the speeded up nonsense.

Eh, I'd still have liked to have seen it. Some things weren't filmable then, for sure, but I tend to prefer the way that whole story (ending included) was carried out in the book.

[The Shark]

That said, while TB is a successful film and adaptation, it lacks much of the heart and soul of the book--movie Domino is fat and bland, while Largo lacks his Satanic charisma--and is needlessly complicated with the plastic surgery/doubling nonsense.

I'd probably agree, though I'd say John Barry makes up for a lot of that, by bringing the novel's dark soul into the score. His menacing dirges give the whole thing a weight that the screenplay lacks.



I also think they should have gone with Celi's pre-dubbed voice. Listen to the short clip in the 'making of' doc, and you see what I mean. Far more menacing and shark-like than the end result. I didn't find it hard to understand either.

[Revelator]

That would not have worked. They tried it in Never Say Never Again. I always think with diving masks on it could be anyone, they had to take it above water so you could see the actors faces.

I could see Connery and Brandauer and Basinger's faces well enough in NSNA--the real problem was that there was no pacing or suspense in the sequence, and the direction and lighting were totally uninspired (it's like Kershner ran out of energy and style). Nor was there much memorable action--it didn't come across as a desperate, exhausting fight to the death, as it did in the book.

On another note, yes, I did mean to say that the movie Domino was "flat," not "fat." Of all the bad typos I could have made...
I agree with Shark that John Barry's score is an immense help to the movie and provides much in tone.

Edited by Revelator, 12 December 2011 - 06:51 PM.

[Chief of SIS]

My only issue with the score was during the climatic underwater fight. I think the 'menacing dirges' as Sharky calls them (had to use it. Great description) fit superbly with most of the underwater sequences. It provides immense tense feeling. In a way, it's reminiscent to the suspense in something like 'Jaws.' (I'm not saying the two scores are comparable, only in thematic technique.) However, the end bit really removes the enigma that is the unknown and dangerous ocean and instead provides a ten minutes hand-to-hand, massive underwater fight. These dirges we speak of don't work as well here as they did earlier in the film.

[Cruiserweight]

Live And Let Die is probably my favorite Bond book after The Spy Who Loved Me. On the other hand I had a hard time getting through Moonraker.

[DamnCoffee]

From Russia With Love - Easily the best Bond novel so far. Brilliant ending, too. In my head, I could totally picture Daniel Craig and Imelda Staunton in combat. If that scene were ever to serve as a cliffhanger for a future Bond film, it would honestly be fantastic. Even though I totally knew what was coming (I've been a Bond fan for many years, and From Russia With Loves ending has been very much talked about on the boards), It didn't damper my enjoyment of it in the slightest. If I were to nit pick, I wanted to see a little more of Grant, brilliant but underused character. Strange how I pictured Hugh Laurie in the role. Ah well. On to Dr. No I go!

[Major Tallon]

Glad you enjoyed it, Mharkin, it's a masterpiece. I've previously commented that Fleming took great care with this book, extensively editing the final chapters and rewriting the ending completely. I think he knew he was on to something. He was right.

[DamnCoffee]

Making my way through Dr. No, and no word of a lie, the centipede scene absolutely terrified me.

[00Twelve]

Making my way through Dr. No, and no word of a lie, the centipede scene absolutely terrified me.

Dr. No is probably my second favorite after LALD, because Jamaica. Fleming knew it best, and he described it best. As awesome as the story is getting now (cyanide fruit basket was a nice touch), it gets all kinds of bad once it hits Crab Key.

From Russia With Love - Easily the best Bond novel so far. Brilliant ending, too. In my head, I could totally picture Daniel Craig and Imelda Staunton in combat. If that scene were ever to serve as a cliffhanger for a future Bond film, it would honestly be fantastic. Even though I totally knew what was coming (I've been a Bond fan for many years, and From Russia With Loves ending has been very much talked about on the boards), It didn't damper my enjoyment of it in the slightest. If I were to nit pick, I wanted to see a little more of Grant, brilliant but underused character. Strange how I pictured Hugh Laurie in the role. Ah well. On to Dr. No I go!

Glad you liked it. It's got one of the more interesting structures, and the ending is shocking as hell if one didn't know it was coming. The train fight is one thing the movie improved upon, for sure. It feels like a more natural story without the added scenes of the helicopter running them down or the boat chase. Just escaping the train and making it to Paris, where they think they're done.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Glad you liked it. It's got one of the more interesting structures, and the ending is shocking as hell if one didn't know it was coming. The train fight is one thing the movie improved upon, for sure. It feels like a more natural story without the added scenes of the helicopter running them down or the boat chase. Just escaping the train and making it to Paris, where they think they're done.

For sure, but I do like how the film escalates and escalates, to the point where you think the climax has already hit with the boat chase, and this hotel sequence is just an extended denoument, like a lot of films then had... and then Klebb walks in.

Pure genius.

[Major Tallon]

Making my way through Dr. No, and no word of a lie, the centipede scene absolutely terrified me.

And there's more great stuff ahead!

[007DavidBond]

Live And Let Die is probably my favorite Bond book after The Spy Who Loved Me. On the other hand I had a hard time getting through Moonraker.

Live and Let Die kicks butt as a book. The film not so much but yes lalt is my fav bond book among others.

Edited by 007DavidBond, 24 December 2011 - 02:20 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

Finished Dr. No a few days ago. Absoloutely amazing. I thought From Russia With Love was great, but Dr. No has got to be the best one so far in my opinion. Fleming writes about Jamaica in such detail that it's just an absoloute pleasure to read. I loved the assault course, too. Wouldn't mind seeing that properly adapted for a future movie.

[MarkA]

Finished Dr. No a few days ago. Absoloutely amazing. I thought From Russia With Love was great, but Dr. No has got to be the best one so far in my opinion. Fleming writes about Jamaica in such detail that it's just an absoloute pleasure to read. I loved the assault course, too. Wouldn't mind seeing that properly adapted for a future movie.

Dr. No was the first Fleming I read at the tender age of nine back in the late 60's. I remember my Mum was horrified when I bought home this tatty paperback copy (it was the film tie-in) which a friends father gave me. I can't pretend then I could understand everything but it was an amazing experience. By my mid teens I had read them all but Dr. No still remains my favourite book. There is such sense of nostalgia attached to it for me.