319 replies to this topic

[The Shark]

If Arnold is unavailble for 'SkyFall' then whoever it is has to have a very strong influenced Barry sound. IMO one of the ingrediants for a classic Bond film is a classic Bond sound, which of course is what Barry had created.

I think that kind of cliche limits a composer's creativity. I don't mind a few tips of the cap to the Barry sound (even Serra did this with "Forever, James" and "That What Keeps You Alone"), but not a full on pastiche. Bond music should be taken into a new and original place.

[Harmsway]

Bond music should be taken into a new and original place.

Yep. The Bond theme itself is enough of a thread to tie the scores to the "Bond sound," and beyond that, composers should feel free to evolve the Bond sound. Serra's GOLDENEYE score is still the strongest Bond score of the Brosnan era.

A young up-and-comer who's a bit too green for the role of Bond composer, but would nevertheless be a strong, if not particularly risky, pick, is Andrew Hale. Heck, a few cues from his L.A. NOIRE soundtrack already seem tailor-made for a Bond film ("Redemption, pt. 2," in particular).

[Pussfeller]

I suspect it's not a popular opinion, but I love the Serra score. It's adventurous and memorable. It's part of the reason that GoldenEye is so distinctive. Arnold is competent, but that's all he is. His fans have said "we don't know what we have". I say that he doesn't know what he has. Considering the iconic themes he has to play with, he's done very little with them.

[d21089]

A slightly left field composer choice:

Philip Sheppard- he is a senior lecturer at the Royal Academy of music and has scored several films and composed the music for the London Olympic Handover in Beijing combining classical music with classic rock as well as the national anthems for the 2012 games (I thought Arnold was doing that), he is originally a cellist and a pioneer of the electric cello and has alot of invention and originality to his scores while still having a grand scope and strong feel for melody in a more classical way than Arnold -

Something like this track "Cold Fear" with some atmospheric Bond electric guitar work added would make an amazing Bond score and is the sort of sound I picture for Skyfall from what I know of it so far

Cold Fear

[Captain Tightpants]

I've heard rumours - and I stress they are rumours; I found them posted on another forum, having been taken from a third forum - that EON do not want to break up the relationship between Mendes and Newman. Read into that what you will.

[Matt_13]

I've heard rumours - and I stress they are rumours; I found them posted on another forum, having been taken from a third forum - that EON do not want to break up the relationship between Mendes and Newman. Read into that what you will.

Well that's the obvious assumption, which is why we haven't heard anything. I guess it'll come down to how much EON really wants to break formula and try something new. The importance of the musical score cannot be understated, it's imperative they get the right person for the job. You think they would ask Newman to submit some samples before committing to him?

[d21089]

I've always thought this movie would be either Newman or Arnold - I think Mendes would be pretty keen to get Newman on board, as would MGM (Mendes/Newman is a proven Hollywood formula that sells and is critically acclaimed) when they are trying to sell this movie hard not just to the normal Bond fan, but to the Sam Mendes film buff audience too who might not usually go and see a Bond film. Arnold doesn't have the pull that these two teaming up have and while EON will have their loyalties to him, I think this time, they're going to have to say 'Sorry Dave, next time maybe' like they no doubt did with Danny Kleinman on the titles last time whether it's their call or MGM/Sony.

Edited by d21089, 07 November 2011 - 03:06 AM.

[Captain Tightpants]

Well that's the obvious assumption, which is why we haven't heard anything. I guess it'll come down to how much EON really wants to break formula and try something new.

Well, I thought it was important to stress the rumour part because I cannot think of a subject that is more polarising among fans than the identity of the film's composer. I didn't want people latching onto this as proof positive of Newman's involvement - especially if it doesn't pan out.

The importance of the musical score cannot be understated, it's imperative they get the right person for the job.

Of course. The first thing I teach my students when doing a film unit is that sound is the single most important tool at the film-maker's disposal, because it provides the audience with emotional cues.

You think they would ask Newman to submit some samples before committing to him?

Assuming for the moment that both EON and Newman are interested, I think a lot will come down to how they view the project. Some composers like to score straight from the script; I seem to recall reading that Hans Zimmer knew he wanted a Renzor-style industrial vibe for the Joker in THE DARK KNIGHT before he had even seen a frame from the film. By comparison, that distinctive "BOW ... BOW ... BOW" sound in INCEPTION is actually the Edith Pilaf song (that the character use to warn one another that they're about to wake up) slowed right down to be at the same speed as the characters would hear it in the bottom level of the dream. That obviously took some planning.

I'm not really familiar with Newman's work, so I can't say for sure - but a lot will come down to how EON want the film scored and whether Newman's ideas line up with that. For example, one of the complaints I've heard about Arnold is that he doesn't work the title theme into the film score the way John Barry did (the title themes often come very late in the game, probably to stop them leaking). Would Newman want to do this, and if so, how? Would he write a title theme or the artist, or would the artist write it for him? That's not something that I can answer, but it is something that I think is the kind of decision that would need to be addressed if Newman were to work with EON.

[SecretAgentFan]

I'm not really familiar with Newman's work, so I can't say for sure - but a lot will come down to how EON want the film scored and whether Newman's ideas line up with that. For example, one of the complaints I've heard about Arnold is that he doesn't work the title theme into the film score the way John Barry did (the title themes often come very late in the game, probably to stop them leaking). Would Newman want to do this, and if so, how? Would he write a title theme or the artist, or would the artist write it for him? That's not something that I can answer, but it is something that I think is the kind of decision that would need to be addressed if Newman were to work with EON.

That complaint seems strange to me. Arnold wants to work the title theme into his Bond scores (TND, TWINE, CR) but these days the decision is often made without the composer. The flashier pop star can decide whether he/she wants to work with the composer or choose to write it themselves (Sheryl Crowe, Madonna, Keys/White).

[Captain Tightpants]

That complaint seems strange to me. Arnold wants to work the title theme into his Bond scores (TND, TWINE, CR) but these days the decision is often made without the composer.

I've noticed that people sometimes have blinders on when it comes to Arnold, and criticise him for things that aren't necessarily his fault. Particularly if they're emotionally-invested in the subject. Like I said, the identity of the composer is perhaps the most polarising discussion among the fans. If the title theme were composed sooner, Arnold would have more of a chance to work it into the score, and I think that's what people are critical of - waiting until the last minute to get the theme done, leaving Arnold with nothing to use, and producing an overall score of lower quality.

[Lionheart]

Someone in another forum suggested that Debbie Wiseman would be a good choice. He also mentioned her score for "Arsene Lupin" (2004) as a reason for that. I have to say I like it a lot, even though it sounds a little bit more like a Bond video game then a film... Or does it?

[occhile007]

Well that's the obvious assumption, which is why we haven't heard anything. I guess it'll come down to how much EON really wants to break formula and try something new.

Well, I thought it was important to stress the rumour part because I cannot think of a subject that is more polarising among fans than the identity of the film's composer. I didn't want people latching onto this as proof positive of Newman's involvement - especially if it doesn't pan out.

The importance of the musical score cannot be understated, it's imperative they get the right person for the job.

Of course. The first thing I teach my students when doing a film unit is that sound is the single most important tool at the film-maker's disposal, because it provides the audience with emotional cues.

You think they would ask Newman to submit some samples before committing to him?

Assuming for the moment that both EON and Newman are interested, I think a lot will come down to how they view the project. Some composers like to score straight from the script; I seem to recall reading that Hans Zimmer knew he wanted a Renzor-style industrial vibe for the Joker in THE DARK KNIGHT before he had even seen a frame from the film. By comparison, that distinctive "BOW ... BOW ... BOW" sound in INCEPTION is actually the Edith Pilaf song (that the character use to warn one another that they're about to wake up) slowed right down to be at the same speed as the characters would hear it in the bottom level of the dream. That obviously took some planning.

I'm not really familiar with Newman's work, so I can't say for sure - but a lot will come down to how EON want the film scored and whether Newman's ideas line up with that. For example, one of the complaints I've heard about Arnold is that he doesn't work the title theme into the film score the way John Barry did (the title themes often come very late in the game, probably to stop them leaking). Would Newman want to do this, and if so, how? Would he write a title theme or the artist, or would the artist write it for him? That's not something that I can answer, but it is something that I think is the kind of decision that would need to be addressed if Newman were to work with EON.

If Arnold doesn't work the title into the film, why would he work closely with Garbage in TWINE or Chris Cornell for CR or even try to include some of the sound from Another Way to Die into his Pursuit at Port Au Prince, or add is own track with Four Tet at the end of QOS???

Arnold is the man...plain and simple, but if it comes down to pass the torch to Newman, then "there's much ado about nothing"...who knows maybe Newman will keep it classy like John Barry. All we can do is speculate for now...but it sure is fun.

[Satorious]

I'd like to see the score being perhaps a bit more sympathetic to the work of John Barry's Bond style being as he is no longer with us and the fact it's the 50th Anniversary. However I've come to the conclusion that I really don't care who scores the damn thing so long as it's worthy and doesn't detract from the film and adds to it!

David Arnold's QOS score was a step up in my opinion, a vast improvement over his general TND rehashes (normally with an overloading of noise or electronics). QOS had the right kind of balance for me. It still annoys me in places with "filler" material, but it did have more of a unique voice than the others. Thomas Newman, well on the one hand it would be interesting to have a change, on the other I'm not entirely convinced his style suits Bond at all. Those who think Sam Mendes is inexplicably tied to Thomas Newman - well this isn't entirely true because his last film had music by Alexi Murdoch not Thomas Newman. If I were to pick a "Newman" for Bond, it would be David Newman and that is solely based on his fantastic score to the mediocre film "The Phantom".

I suspect David Arnold will be back as the Producers seem to like working with him (ala Purvis and Wade) - but let's wait and see!

Edited by Satorious, 09 November 2011 - 08:50 PM.

[Satorious]

his last film had music by Alexi Murdoch not Thomas Newman.

Only because it had a song based soundtrack.

Fair enough - can't comment as I haven't seen it. But it proves he isn't solely reliant on Newman's scores to carry all his films. I'm sure if the producers played hard-ball he would fall into line or vice-versa. The fact that Forster didn't overhaul Arnold last time makes me think he'll be back - but who knows? I'd love to see something left-of-field happen such as Mendes surprising us all by picking a completely different composer who he believes is right for the gig!

[Leon]

Newman would be very interesting. My only fear is that he'd give one of those old Roger Moore style, watered down Bond themes with all strings and no belting electric guitar and screaming brass.

[Orion]

I like Newman's work but personally I'd prefer Arnold to return, as I've loved his Bond scores, and they where arguably getting better as they went along.

[The Shark]

I like Newman's work but personally I'd prefer Arnold to return, as I've loved his Bond scores, and they where arguably getting better as they went along.

Not so sure about that. QOS's quality seems more like an anomaly.

[Orion]

I like Newman's work but personally I'd prefer Arnold to return, as I've loved his Bond scores, and they where arguably getting better as they went along.

Not so sure about that. QOS's quality seems more like an anomaly.

I think Arnold's style is a bit marmite, mostly because he doesn't really go halfway on scores and trying to emulate the films identity, certainly QOS is the only Bond film I can think of where he was even remotely subtle in his scoring, but I think that's more of a refelection of the films, QOS was the only one of the five that tried to be subtle in how it told its story.

[Peckinpah1976]

I thought Arnold's score for TND really gave the series a kick in the pants (after the horror of GE's soundtrack) and it remains one of the few interesting aspects of that film for me, by comparison his other two Brosnan scores were rather bland and generic IMO. The Craig era seems to have caused him to raise his game though and on CR he was very much part of that behind the scenes support network that made Martin Campbell appear a much better director than he actually is and his work on QS is beautifully symapthetic to the look and style of that film. I'd be sorry to see him go at this point but I do trust Mendes to make the right choice (if he is the cause of Arnold being replaced).

[jaguar007]

I thought Arnold's score for TND really gave the series a kick in the pants (after the horror of GE's soundtrack) and it remains one of the few interesting aspects of that film for me, by comparison his other two Brosnan scores were rather bland and generic IMO. The Craig era seems to have caused him to raise his game though and on CR he was very much part of that behind the scenes support network that made Martin Campbell appear a much better director than he actually is and his work on QS is beautifully symapthetic to the look and style of that film. I'd be sorry to see him go at this point but I do trust Mendes to make the right choice (if he is the cause of Arnold being replaced).

I have to agree with you, I really like the TND soundtrack. I rate it as Arnold's best and probably the best non-Barry score.

[The Shark]

I thought Arnold's score for TND really gave the series a kick in the pants (after the horror of GE's soundtrack)

"The horror of GE's soundtrack?"

Come off it mate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oJ871ccfi4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkFWKQN9sQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6NUEFVzi1g

Arnold's yet to produce anything as stirring as that.

[dchantry]

I thought Arnold's score for TND really gave the series a kick in the pants (after the horror of GE's soundtrack)

"The horror of GE's soundtrack?"

Come off it mate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oJ871ccfi4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkFWKQN9sQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6NUEFVzi1g

Arnold's yet to produce anything as stirring as that.

Its funny. I find soundtracks like Marmite.
For years I hated LTK and now when I listen to it I find it very entertaining and definately works in context to the film.
GE is the same, I hated it when it came out and when TND soundtrack was released it was like a breath of fresh air, but now strangely it is growing on me.

Can't agree with the overall statement though, Arnold soundtracks do tend to deliver and I'd put them over Serra anyday (although TWINE and DAD were both worse than GE).

I think the problem was that Arnold started strong and then thought that having multiple electric versions of the Bond theme blasting throughout was what everybody wanted. He listended when people moaned and really toned down for the last 2 films (although he did have to fit the style and what the producers wanted) and now he's getting slated for not having it enough.

Everyones opinion is different, so we should respect that people like different things. The series has lasted so long with different variations of everything so everyone has a different opinion. As someone mentioned somewhere else, the only way to please everyone would be to have Bond 23 with a 1965 Sean Connery as Bond, a villain living in a hollowed out Volcano, or atop a Piz, a theme song sung by Shirley Bassey and music by John Barry.

[Harmsway]

If Arnold doesn't work the title into the film, why would he work closely with Garbage in TWINE or Chris Cornell for CR or even try to include some of the sound from Another Way to Die into his Pursuit at Port Au Prince, or add is own track with Four Tet at the end of QOS???

He wants to work the themes in, but he rarely makes as strong a use of them as he could.

[The Shark]

If Arnold doesn't work the title into the film, why would he work closely with Garbage in TWINE or Chris Cornell for CR or even try to include some of the sound from Another Way to Die into his Pursuit at Port Au Prince, or add is own track with Four Tet at the end of QOS???

He wants to work the themes in, but he rarely makes as strong a use of them as he could.

Indeed. The pre-chorus and middle 8 of YKMN are never used once in CR's score.

[Peckinpah1976]

I thought Arnold's score for TND really gave the series a kick in the pants (after the horror of GE's soundtrack)

"The horror of GE's soundtrack?"

Come off it mate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oJ871ccfi4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkFWKQN9sQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6NUEFVzi1g

Arnold's yet to produce anything as stirring as that.

All subjective of course but it's not only the worst of the entire series IMO but a bad soundtrack period. But then title song and opening credits aside, I've never seen the appeal of that film at all.

[The Shark]

You haven't clicked on the links have you?

[sharpshooter]

He wants to work the themes in, but he rarely makes as strong a use of them as he could.

Indeed. YKMN was used too little in CR. Listen to the BBC Proms version of it. It's very Bondian. A blaring instrumental during the Miami International airport sequence would've done wonders. But instead we got that long, droning section of scoring. I think some of Arnold's cues "African Rundown", "City of Lovers" "Time To Get Out" and "Night at the Opera" are all nicely done. But the problem is that there's not enough of this standard across the board. For me, Serra's distinctive GoldenEye score is still the top dog of the modern era.

[DominicGreene]

Does anyone here want to hear the return of the "You Know my Name" que in the soundtrack?

[Leon]

Does anyone here want to hear the return of the "You Know my Name" que in the soundtrack?

Hints of it could be used, if the story telling would benefit from the suggestion in the score. If it would just be thrown in for the sake of it then no, they should write something totally fresh from whatever the Skyfall title song will be.

I'd love to hear more of the subdued, vibrato woodwind styles used notably in Thunderball and maybe a bit more beefy, twanging electric guitar suggesting to the Bond theme occasionally - where it belongs of course - and a full on, in-film explosion of the James Bond theme used for the big finale action sequence.

[DamnCoffee]

Poll added.