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CR & QoS


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#31 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:17 PM

Well... to be perfectly honest, didn't FRWL try to take its opening (or, rather, the design of its opening) from Last Year in Marienbad? Thought I'd heard that, somewhere...

#32 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:35 PM

Well... to be perfectly honest, did FRWL try to take its opening (or, rather, the design of its opening) from Last Year in Marienbad? Thought I'd heard that, somewhere...

I don't know about that.... but what I do know is Blur's To The End video is based on that french film, but- altough I love that song- that little homage doesn't transform that music video in an art (short)film.

#33 The Shark

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 11:10 PM

Well... to be perfectly honest, did FRWL try to take its opening (or, rather, the design of its opening) from Last Year in Marienbad? Thought I'd heard that, somewhere...


That's right. I'm not sure whether it was Terence Young, Richard Maibaum, or Johanna Harwood, but it was one of them... I'm betting on Young.

I know the PTS get's flack in some parts, but it's a tightly executed, cleverly conceived, well shot (and garotted), prologue, that any future Bond should aspire to.

Something Jeffery Deaver referred to when expounding why he ranks FRWL in first place, in a recent interview.

What I really liked was the subtlety involved. None of the broad Hollywood techniques.


None of the Bond filmmakers were auteurs, but the best (i.e. Young, Hamilton, Hunt, and Campbell) drew stylistic influence from them. In this case - Resnais.

#34 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:14 AM

To be perfectly honest (and you might disagree), I'd say the same of the CR and QOS PTSs; they're short and to-the-point, and relatively subtle (especially when compared to the PTSs of the two films previous to the Craig era). :)

#35 The Shark

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:35 AM

To be perfectly honest (and you might disagree), I'd say the same of the CR and QOS PTSs; they're short and to-the-point, and relatively subtle (especially when compared to the PTSs of the two films previous to the Craig era). :)


Yep, "subtle" like been thrown into a shaky cam-laden, monochrome and grainy koz its 'kool n gritty' - brawl in a public toilet. Closing with a sadistic and amateurish kill by our man who's supposed to be James Bond! Or a ridiculously over-cut, over-loud, and spatially mangled car chase. The like of which would cause Terence Young in the editing suite, to mass incinerate every single 35mm reel or digital copy of of the film, and spontaneously combust in a fit of rage. Peter Hunt followed.

More like - LAST YEAR AT TREADSTONE.

Sorry Bloster, but better luck next time. ;)

Disclaimer: this post was purely in jest. QOS bashing will ruin your health.

#36 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:11 AM


To be perfectly honest (and you might disagree), I'd say the same of the CR and QOS PTSs; they're short and to-the-point, and relatively subtle (especially when compared to the PTSs of the two films previous to the Craig era). :)


Yep, "subtle" like been thrown into a shaky cam-laden, monochrome and grainy koz its 'kool n gritty' - brawl in a public toilet. Closing with a sadistic and amateurish kill by our man who's supposed to be James Bond! Or a ridiculously over-cut, over-loud, and spatially mangled car chase. The like of which would cause Terence Young in the editing suite, to mass incinerate every single 35mm reel or digital copy of of the film, and spontaneously combust in a fit of rage. Peter Hunt followed.

More like - LAST YEAR AT TREADSTONE.

Sorry Bloster, but better luck next time. ;)

Disclaimer: this post was purely in jest. QOS bashing will ruin your health.

I could agree with your comments about QOS, but regarding CR.... First of all, there's no shaky cam (Bourne style) in Craig's first entry, and its "monochrome and grainy" PTS is inspired- as Campbell stated- by The Ipcress File, film that counted in its crew with Harry Saltzman, Peter Hunt, Ken Adams, Peter Murton and John Barry.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 10 May 2011 - 02:20 AM.


#37 The Shark

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:49 AM



To be perfectly honest (and you might disagree), I'd say the same of the CR and QOS PTSs; they're short and to-the-point, and relatively subtle (especially when compared to the PTSs of the two films previous to the Craig era). :)


Yep, "subtle" like been thrown into a shaky cam-laden, monochrome and grainy koz its 'kool n gritty' - brawl in a public toilet. Closing with a sadistic and amateurish kill by our man who's supposed to be James Bond! Or a ridiculously over-cut, over-loud, and spatially mangled car chase. The like of which would cause Terence Young in the editing suite, to mass incinerate every single 35mm reel or digital copy of of the film, and spontaneously combust in a fit of rage. Peter Hunt followed.

More like - LAST YEAR AT TREADSTONE.

Sorry Bloster, but better luck next time. ;)

Disclaimer: this post was purely in jest. QOS bashing will ruin your health.

I could agree with your comments about QOS, but regarding CR.... First of all, there's no shaky cam (Bourne style) in Craig's first entry,


There is.

The camerawork in Casino Royale presents another departure, in that it involves a lot of handheld operating. "Camerawork in movies is more fluid these days," notes camera operator Roger Pearce. "I've done more handheld work on this picture than I've ever done. I've worked on four pictures with Martin Campbell, starting with GoldenEye, and even there we did a lot less handheld work. With handheld, the action is happening in front of you. It's almost a newsreel situation. Martin does a lot of takes and there's always something a little different from take to take. That keeps it very interesting."


and its "monochrome and grainy" PTS is inspired- as Campbell stated- by The Ipcress File, film that counted in its crew with Harry Saltzman, Peter Hunt, Ken Adams, Peter Murton and John Barry.


THE IPCRESS FILE wasn't monochrome/black and white (i.e. THE SPY WHO CAME IN THE FROM COLD), and the grain was a natural side effect of the pre-digitally graded film stock, and the Techniscope format, handled masterfully by Otto Heller.

#38 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:10 AM




To be perfectly honest (and you might disagree), I'd say the same of the CR and QOS PTSs; they're short and to-the-point, and relatively subtle (especially when compared to the PTSs of the two films previous to the Craig era). :)


Yep, "subtle" like been thrown into a shaky cam-laden, monochrome and grainy koz its 'kool n gritty' - brawl in a public toilet. Closing with a sadistic and amateurish kill by our man who's supposed to be James Bond! Or a ridiculously over-cut, over-loud, and spatially mangled car chase. The like of which would cause Terence Young in the editing suite, to mass incinerate every single 35mm reel or digital copy of of the film, and spontaneously combust in a fit of rage. Peter Hunt followed.

More like - LAST YEAR AT TREADSTONE.

Sorry Bloster, but better luck next time. ;)

Disclaimer: this post was purely in jest. QOS bashing will ruin your health.

I could agree with your comments about QOS, but regarding CR.... First of all, there's no shaky cam (Bourne style) in Craig's first entry,


There is.

The camerawork in Casino Royale presents another departure, in that it involves a lot of handheld operating. "Camerawork in movies is more fluid these days," notes camera operator Roger Pearce. "I've done more handheld work on this picture than I've ever done. I've worked on four pictures with Martin Campbell, starting with GoldenEye, and even there we did a lot less handheld work. With handheld, the action is happening in front of you. It's almost a newsreel situation. Martin does a lot of takes and there's always something a little different from take to take. That keeps it very interesting."


and its "monochrome and grainy" PTS is inspired- as Campbell stated- by The Ipcress File, film that counted in its crew with Harry Saltzman, Peter Hunt, Ken Adams, Peter Murton and John Barry.


THE IPCRESS FILE wasn't monochrome/black and white (i.e. THE SPY WHO CAME IN THE FROM COLD), and the grain was a natural side effect of the pre-digitally graded film stock, and the Techniscope format, handled masterfully by Otto Heller.

Well, actually The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, was the other influence quoted by Campbell for that scene, and the influence isn't supposed to be restricted to the technique but to the whole atmosphere.

Regarding to the other subject. One thing is handheld camera- element that isn't any novelty in cinema- and other is use it in the style that was popularized by Greengrass and a lesser degree by Nolan and others in the first decade of this century (with extreme close up and very fast cuts, among other things); and only QOS is guilty of the latter.

#39 The Shark

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:36 AM

Well, actually The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, was the other influence quoted by Campbell for that scene, and the influence isn't supposed to be restricted to the technique but to the whole atmosphere.


Why were they looking to Deighton and Le Carré adaptations (however excellent there were), partly created as antitheses to James Bond?

Regarding to the other subject. One thing is handheld camera- element that isn't any novelty in cinema- and other is use it in the style that was popularized by Greengrass and a lesser degree by Nolan and others in the first decade of this century (with extreme close up and very fast cuts, among other things); and only QOS is guilty of the latter.


I don't think it's the handheld camera. It's the ultra-ultra tight editing style, adopted by Matt Cheese and Richard Pearson (of BOURNE acclaim), cuts not on the natural rhythmic of a scenes, but through an artificial, metronome-like pulse. Because of that, it called far too much attention to itself, and got in the way of the onscreen action.

At least Greengrass's BOURNE flicks (and CASINO ROYALE) were fluid.

Digression aside, my original point was that shaky cam, however popularised in mainstream action movies, still isn't subtle. At least not how it's used in the PTS of CR.

By 'broad Hollywood technique' that Deaver refereed to, the modern blockbuster style of shooting and cutting could easily qualify.

#40 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 06:03 AM

Well, actually The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, was the other influence quoted by Campbell for that scene, and the influence isn't supposed to be restricted to the technique but to the whole atmosphere.


Why were they looking to Deighton and Le Carré adaptations (however excellent there were), partly created as antitheses to James Bond?

I think that style was proper for a James Bond that wasn't 007 yet. If Campbell would have finished the movie with that last scene (when finally, we can see the character that we all know and love) in the same vein, that would have been wrong.

#41 TCK

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:45 AM

By the way, Quantum of Solace ending reminds the PTS of Casino Royale : Bond is waiting his man in the dark. Another point which confirms the "one-movie-idea" of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. We've come full circle.

#42 The Shark

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:31 PM


Well, actually The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, was the other influence quoted by Campbell for that scene, and the influence isn't supposed to be restricted to the technique but to the whole atmosphere.


Why were they looking to Deighton and Le Carré adaptations (however excellent there were), partly created as antitheses to James Bond?

I think that style was proper for a James Bond that wasn't 007 yet.


But he's a middle aged bloke. I have a hard time taking CR's 'rookie Bond' seriously.

#43 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:45 PM

By the way, Quantum of Solace ending reminds the PTS of Casino Royale: Bond is waiting his man in the dark. Another point which confirms the "one-movie-idea" of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. We've come full circle.

Indeed; I love that there are so many echoes to CR in QOS (actually, multiple echoes in the same scene; Bond and Camille surrounded by fire is a climactic counterpoint to Vesper's drowning in front of Bond in CR, but the blocking of the shot is also a fiery counterpoint to the shower scene from the same film!)... it does feel like one echoing cycle.

I look forward to 23 breaking the loop (however perfect it may seem in the minds of the audience), and bringing us even further forward in Bond. :)

#44 TCK

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:24 PM

Indeed; I love that there are so many echoes to CR in QOS (actually, multiple echoes in the same scene; Bond and Camille surrounded by fire is a climactic counterpoint to Vesper's drowning in front of Bond in CR, but the blocking of the shot is also a fiery counterpoint to the shower scene from the same film!)... it does feel like one echoing cycle.


Very well-judged another time ! You seem to be an expert. :tup:

Also, Bond fires off an oxygen tank in Perla de las dunas but also in the embassy in Casino Royale. Another echoe perhaps ?

#45 Major Tallon

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:10 PM

Also, Bond fires off an oxygen tank in Perla de las dunas but also in the embassy in Casino Royale. Another echoe perhaps ?

Interesting thought. Just to be accurate, though, the tank in CR was propane and the tank in QOS was hydrogen.

#46 iBond

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:27 PM

CR is like eating a good mexican dish, tasty and spicy... QOS is the suffering afterwards in the bogg and makes your ring piece look like the japanese flag !!!! QOS next to TMWGG is my least watched Bond film


I would agree with you, although I do watch TMWGG a lot more haha! I just love the feel for the film and how it was fun and just something to watch without putting too much thought into it. But yeah, I understand what you're saying about the differences between Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. A few friends of mine either love Casino Royale or hate it and love the other film. I guess Quantum of Solace is for your typical American audience who want more action and far less dialogue, which is a shame to me. But then again, Martin and Mark are very different directors and at least they weren't afraid to do what they thought was right. I mean, it would have been weird to have Mark try to mimic what has been done before with Martin. It would be like Timothy Dalton being another Roger Moore. It wouldn't work. So, in that sense I can understand why people either CR and QoS, or even both for the sake of argument. But my personal favorite would have to be Casino Royale and the elements that answer the questions in QoS. For example, the whole thing with Mr. White, the man who betrayed Vesper, Bond dropping Vesper's necklace in the snow, those elements that were brought in CR and answered in the next film. However, the main story of QoS just didn't do it for me.

#47 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 11:37 PM



Well, actually The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, was the other influence quoted by Campbell for that scene, and the influence isn't supposed to be restricted to the technique but to the whole atmosphere.


Why were they looking to Deighton and Le Carré adaptations (however excellent there were), partly created as antitheses to James Bond?

I think that style was proper for a James Bond that wasn't 007 yet.


But he's a middle aged bloke. I have a hard time taking CR's 'rookie Bond' seriously.

"A middle aged bloke" at the age of thirties something, in these days (with the average of life expectancy that we have right now), I don't really think so. Besides, he isn't a rookie at her majesty service, he's just a rookie as a OO agent, section of MI6 in wich shouldn't enter people still in his twenties.