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James Bond, a Scalphunter?


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#1 MkB

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:25 AM

Sorry for the title, maybe a bit cryptic...

After going through the Fleming novels, I've been reading some John LeCarré novels. LeCarré is known for his open loathing of the James Bond character and universe, most notably branding Bond "a neo-fascist gangster".

Still, I didn't think the two universes were *that* far away, leaving aside the major difference: the gloomy vs. glamorous intelligence world. Come to think of it Alec Leamas is some sort of James Bond confronted with an M (or C) too smart or twisted for him. Or the tall and handsome Peter Guillam, with his womanising and old sports car, looking up at his chief Smiley as something like an adoptive father, could easily be renamed "James Bond".

As a matter of fact, it occurred to me that LeCarré's MI6 also seems to have its own sort of 00 section: in "Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy", there are several references to the "Scalphunters" a separate section grouping agents sent to do the "dirty work" unbefitting or too dirty to official residents.

So, in some tortuous way, my understanding is that in LeCarré's world, an agent of James Bond's skill would belong in the "Scalphunters" section. His own fantasy MI6 is therefore not so far from Fleming's simply they don't put forward the same qualities. For Fleming, the condition to belong in the elite is the ability to kill in cold-blood, whereas for LeCarré it is skills more typical of the intelligence trade (agent handling, manipulation, psychology, and, well, intelligence).

I would be curious to hear the thoughts of the LeCarré fans (of whom, I should add, I am).

#2 AMC Hornet

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

Do yourself a favour and add Ian MacIntosh's 'The Sandbaggers' to your video library. Like the Scalphunters, the Sandbaggers are the '00' section under the Director of Operations.

The series focuses on the intrigues of the D. Ops as he tries to keep his section alive in the face of budget cuts and political meddling. There's even the occasional mention of our favorite spy (eg: "I'm James Bond and I only earn the same as a middle-grade civil servant").

It stars Roy Marsden as D. Ops Neil Burnside, Ray Lonnen as Willie Caine (aka Sandbagger One) and TSWLM's Bob Sherman as CIA Resident director Jeff Ross.

I've watched this series at least three times and I never tire of it.

Edited by AMC Hornet, 03 January 2011 - 09:17 PM.


#3 MkB

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:05 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, AMC Hornet!

As for the "Scalphunters" in LeCarré, I found back the main description of this section in "Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy":

'They put me in charge of scalphunters.'

'Oh my Lord,' said Smiley with a shudder, and, pulling up his collar round his ample chins, he abandoned himself to that memory in place of others more disturbing: Brixton, and the grim flint schoolhouse that served the scalphunters as their headquarters. The scalphunters' official name was Travel. They had been formed by Control on Bill Haydon's suggestion in the pioneer days of the cold war, when murder and kidnapping and crash blackmail were common currency, and their first commandant was Haydon's nominee. They were a small outfit, about a dozen men, and they were there to handle the hit-and-run jobs that were too dirty or too risky for the residents abroad. Good intelligence work, Control had always preached, was gradual and rested on a kind of gentleness. The scalphunters were the exception to his own rule. They weren't gradual and they weren't gentle either, thus reflecting Haydon's temperament rather than Control's. And they worked solo, which was why they were stabled out of sight behind a flint wall with broken glass and barbed wire on the top.



#4 Scrambled Eggs

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:13 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, AMC Hornet!

As for the "Scalphunters" in LeCarré, I found back the main description of this section in "Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy":

'They put me in charge of scalphunters.'

'Oh my Lord,' said Smiley with a shudder, and, pulling up his collar round his ample chins, he abandoned himself to that memory in place of others more disturbing: Brixton, and the grim flint schoolhouse that served the scalphunters as their headquarters. The scalphunters' official name was Travel. They had been formed by Control on Bill Haydon's suggestion in the pioneer days of the cold war, when murder and kidnapping and crash blackmail were common currency, and their first commandant was Haydon's nominee. They were a small outfit, about a dozen men, and they were there to handle the hit-and-run jobs that were too dirty or too risky for the residents abroad. Good intelligence work, Control had always preached, was gradual and rested on a kind of gentleness. The scalphunters were the exception to his own rule. They weren't gradual and they weren't gentle either, thus reflecting Haydon's temperament rather than Control's. And they worked solo, which was why they were stabled out of sight behind a flint wall with broken glass and barbed wire on the top.


I think that line touches on the key difference between Le Carre's version of MI6 and Fleming's. Fleming's is a black and white world where good and bad are rarely ambiguous. Occasionally we get a character who appears to be a wrong 'un but switches sides (or even sexualities) but thats about it. Maybe Vesper's the exception to the rule.

Le Carre's world is one big grey area. The spying game is a necessary evil which his heroes try to play as honourably as possible, all the while knowing that they're immersed in nasty dirty work which often runs contrary to their own moral code. Do anything too heroic and you end up like Milius, dead on the wrong side of the wall.

Thats where the realism in Le carre comes from. Other than that, his world of scalphunters and lamplighters is just as imaginary as Fleming's. If anything, I find M a far more plausible spymaster than Control - a head of MI6 whose real name is virtually unknown... oh please, come off it Mr Cornwell.

#5 Dustin

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:55 AM

Do anything too heroic and you end up like Milius, dead on the wrong side of the wall.


Wasn't that Leamas? Milius far as I know is still alive and kicking.

#6 MkB

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 04:59 PM

And who was watching and didn't care very much? George Smiley.


If you mean when Leamas was, well... "on the wrong side of the Wall", then I beg to disagree.
All the book through, Smiley is not directly in charge of the case, but tries to do all he can to prevent that, and he does care about Leamas. The one who's watching and not caring very much in this case is Control.

If anything, I even believe that "caring very much" is the main difference between Smiley and Fleming characters. Look at the Honourable Schoolboy, for instance: would you imagine anyone in a Bond novel caring *that* much about the fate of Frost? There might be an emotional response, but not this one (even though for his type of character - not really a foe, but definitely not a friend - it's not a given).

#7 Scrambled Eggs

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:28 AM


Do anything too heroic and you end up like Milius, dead on the wrong side of the wall.


Wasn't that Leamas? Milius far as I know is still alive and kicking.


My mistake! It was late...

#8 Dustin

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:21 AM

Le Carre brings in issues, like Graham Greene before him, which Fleming would have scoffed at and which his publisher would have erased. Caring is one. Homosexuality is another. Jim Prideaux killed Bill Haydon for many reasons.


Homosexuality? I'm not sure it's mentioned in the Smiley books, been a few years since I read them. At the time I thought the topic was kept firmly under the rug, surely more than in Fleming's books. We of course assume there is a homosexual context between Prideaux and Haydon because the Simley/Circus books, or more precisely, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, is considered now the official roman a clef of the Philby/Cambridge Five affair. But that subtext roots back to the actual characters of Blunt and Burgess. Philby, whose literary counterpart is Haydon, wasn't homosexual and I can't remember the book ever claiming otherwise.

Prideaux killing Haydon does have a lot of reasons, but I think it's mainly the personal rage about the betrayed friendship that is the motive here. In my reading it's le Carré himself who kills the traitor by proxy of his character. Prideaux suffered a fate that could well have been le Carrè's at any given time of his work for the MI6, because Philby had disclosed his identity and function to the KGB from the earliest days of the services eying le Carré. Whatever he did he could do just because the KGB thought it was harmless to their cause. Had they thought otherwise le Carré would have been caught, perhaps even killed but certainly imprisoned for years. Guillam's rage for losing his agents and Prideaux killing the traitor, that is le Carré's way of dealing with his own rage about the matter.

#9 Scrambled Eggs

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 01:29 PM


Le Carre brings in issues, like Graham Greene before him, which Fleming would have scoffed at and which his publisher would have erased. Caring is one. Homosexuality is another. Jim Prideaux killed Bill Haydon for many reasons.


Homosexuality? I'm not sure it's mentioned in the Smiley books, been a few years since I read them. At the time I thought the topic was kept firmly under the rug, surely more than in Fleming's books. We of course assume there is a homosexual context between Prideaux and Haydon because the Simley/Circus books, or more precisely, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, is considered now the official roman a clef of the Philby/Cambridge Five affair. But that subtext roots back to the actual characters of Blunt and Burgess. Philby, whose literary counterpart is Haydon, wasn't homosexual and I can't remember the book ever claiming otherwise.

Prideaux killing Haydon does have a lot of reasons, but I think it's mainly the personal rage about the betrayed friendship that is the motive here. In my reading it's le Carré himself who kills the traitor by proxy of his character. Prideaux suffered a fate that could well have been le Carrè's at any given time of his work for the MI6, because Philby had disclosed his identity and function to the KGB from the earliest days of the services eying le Carré. Whatever he did he could do just because the KGB thought it was harmless to their cause. Had they thought otherwise le Carré would have been caught, perhaps even killed but certainly imprisoned for years. Guillam's rage for losing his agents and Prideaux killing the traitor, that is le Carré's way of dealing with his own rage about the matter.


I don't have a copy to hand but Haydon is certainly bisexual. After he's caught Haydon asks Smiley to take a letter and some money to "a particular boy" - and it's clear what his relationship with that boy is.
Off hand, I cant remember the extent to which a sexual relationship between Haydon and Prideux is implied but I wouldnt say homosexuality is kept under the rug in that book. You're right that Prideux doesn't need to be cast as a betrayed lover for that murder to make sense.

#10 Dustin

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 03:24 PM



Le Carre brings in issues, like Graham Greene before him, which Fleming would have scoffed at and which his publisher would have erased. Caring is one. Homosexuality is another. Jim Prideaux killed Bill Haydon for many reasons.


Homosexuality? I'm not sure it's mentioned in the Smiley books, been a few years since I read them. At the time I thought the topic was kept firmly under the rug, surely more than in Fleming's books. We of course assume there is a homosexual context between Prideaux and Haydon because the Simley/Circus books, or more precisely, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, is considered now the official roman a clef of the Philby/Cambridge Five affair. But that subtext roots back to the actual characters of Blunt and Burgess. Philby, whose literary counterpart is Haydon, wasn't homosexual and I can't remember the book ever claiming otherwise.

Prideaux killing Haydon does have a lot of reasons, but I think it's mainly the personal rage about the betrayed friendship that is the motive here. In my reading it's le Carré himself who kills the traitor by proxy of his character. Prideaux suffered a fate that could well have been le Carrè's at any given time of his work for the MI6, because Philby had disclosed his identity and function to the KGB from the earliest days of the services eying le Carré. Whatever he did he could do just because the KGB thought it was harmless to their cause. Had they thought otherwise le Carré would have been caught, perhaps even killed but certainly imprisoned for years. Guillam's rage for losing his agents and Prideaux killing the traitor, that is le Carré's way of dealing with his own rage about the matter.


I don't have a copy to hand but Haydon is certainly bisexual. After he's caught Haydon asks Smiley to take a letter and some money to "a particular boy" - and it's clear what his relationship with that boy is.
Off hand, I cant remember the extent to which a sexual relationship between Haydon and Prideux is implied but I wouldnt say homosexuality is kept under the rug in that book. You're right that Prideux doesn't need to be cast as a betrayed lover for that murder to make sense.



Ah, thanks for clearing that up, didn't remember that part at all any more, perhaps because it's mentioned only briefly at the end.

But Haydon & Prideaux a couple? That would IMO have overdone the part of Haydon, who already had an affair with Ann Smiley, Haydon's cousin, for the very purpose of hiding in Smiley's blind spot. The professional Smiley would not supposedly suspect the professional Haydon/Gerald of openly risking his suspicion by bedding his wife; such was the reasoning behind this move. Had there been yet another affair, even more risky for the security implications of that time, I doubt Haydon could have settled as second-in-command in the Circus and moreover the identity of Gerald would not have been a riddle for readers until the end.

But I just looked up the background on Haydon, Smiley and Prideaux in SMILEY'S CIRCUS by David Monaghan and here both entries, the one for Prideaux and the one for Haydon, speak of a possible or alluded affair between both, so maybe I just missed the innuendos and implications at the time of reading.

#11 MkB

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:19 PM

About Haydon, it's more than alluded that he is bisexual in 'Tinker Taylor....'. I found back some bits:

A lot of things went through Guillam's mind as he heard himself answer. That the surveillance on his flat did not begin till last night, he was sure of it. That over the weekend he was in the clear unless Fawn the captive babysitter had doubled, which would have been hard for him. That Roy Bland bore a close resemblance to the late Dylan Thomas, Roy had always reminded him of someone and till this moment he'd never been able to pin down the connection, and that Mo Delaware had only passed muster as a woman because of her brownie mannishness. He wondered whether Dylan Thomas had had Roy's extraordinary pale blue eyes. That Toby Esterhase was helping himself to a cigarette from his gold case, and that Alleline didn't as a rule allow cigarettes but only pipes, so Toby must stand pretty well with Alleline just now. That Bill Haydon was looking strangely young and that Circus rumours about his love life were not after all so laughable: they said he went both ways.


Smiley about Haydon:

Somewhere the path of pain and betrayal must end. Until that happened, there was no future: there was only a continued slide into still more terrifying versions of the present. This man was my friend and Ann's lover, Jim's friend and for all I know Jim's lover too; it was the treason, not the man, that belonged to the public domain.


Haydon's girlfriend about Haydon:

'Where is he?' she said. She stood facing him. 'He's gone chasing after that snotty little sailor boy again. Is that it? And this is the pay-off, is that it? Well you bloody tell him from me...'


Haydon himself speaking:

'Oh and there was a boy, he added carelessly, a sailor friend, lived in Notting Hill. 'Better give him a couple of hundred to shut him up. Can you do that out of the reptile fund?'


Regarding Jim Prideaux, my feeling was that they used to be lovers in their youth, at Uni, where Prideaux stood in admiration of Haydon, and that after that Prideaux was still looking up to Haydon like to a model. I wasn't under the impression that they were lovers in their Circus days. But there's nothing in the novels for or against this theory, it's just my feeling about their relationship.

#12 Dustin

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:58 PM

Thanks for taking all this trouble! It's really some time since I read it and I think it's time for a re-read.

#13 The Shark

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:07 AM

Fleming was not interested in what went on in Bond's or his opponents' minds.


That's utter nonsense. Completely runs against the countless examples of Fleming exploring Bond's internal thoughts whether existential or mundane, along with his constantly evolving attitudes to violence, death, women, and himself. Ruining further than simply making character judgement on the basis of physiognomy. I'm not going to quote text examples, but chapter references might help.

REFLECTIONS IN A DOUBLE BOURBON
NIGHT DUTY
CURTAINS FOR BOND
SPARROW'S TEARS
A TIE WITH A WINDSOR KNOT
THE KILLING BOTTLE
HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR
HORIZONS OF AGONY
THE LONG SCREAM
THE KILLING GROUNDS

And etcetera.

Not to forget to forget his short stories, which are mostly character studies. Especially QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

#14 smudge76

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:28 AM


Le Carre brings in issues, like Graham Greene before him, which Fleming would have scoffed at and which his publisher would have erased. Caring is one. Homosexuality is another. Jim Prideaux killed Bill Haydon for many reasons.


Homosexuality? I'm not sure it's mentioned in the Smiley books, been a few years since I read them. At the time I thought the topic was kept firmly under the rug, surely more than in Fleming's books. We of course assume there is a homosexual context between Prideaux and Haydon because the Simley/Circus books, or more precisely, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, is considered now the official roman a clef of the Philby/Cambridge Five affair. But that subtext roots back to the actual characters of Blunt and Burgess. Philby, whose literary counterpart is Haydon, wasn't homosexual and I can't remember the book ever claiming otherwise.

Prideaux killing Haydon does have a lot of reasons, but I think it's mainly the personal rage about the betrayed friendship that is the motive here. In my reading it's le Carré himself who kills the traitor by proxy of his character. Prideaux suffered a fate that could well have been le Carrè's at any given time of his work for the MI6, because Philby had disclosed his identity and function to the KGB from the earliest days of the services eying le Carré. Whatever he did he could do just because the KGB thought it was harmless to their cause. Had they thought otherwise le Carré would have been caught, perhaps even killed but certainly imprisoned for years. Guillam's rage for losing his agents and Prideaux killing the traitor, that is le Carré's way of dealing with his own rage about the matter.


I think you have the idea with Jim Prideaux killing hayden purely out of revenge for been betrayed (would'nt you after been left half dead and tortured by warsaw pact secret police). Fleming stories are more escapist using experinces he picked up from his days in war. Le Carre bases his more on gritty realism and tries to portray life as it is. If fleming was to have done that in his 007 books they might not have had the appeal they did especially in 60s. War is not fun, guns are not fun and killing is not fun.
If you was to liken any charcter to 007 it would be Prideaux in relation to his job, remember this is an experienced field operator, not a spy but a covert operator who can be sent into the field to kill, blackmail, beat up, burgle etc. A job today you would get an ex soldier to do and more than likely Prideaux was ex military either SOE,SAS,Paras,Commandos etc.

#15 Dustin

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:19 PM

I think a little bit of Bond can be found in some characters of the Smiley books. The scalphunters are one version of the 00s. Ricki Tarr is another agent like Prideaux who is mainly concerned with dangerous assigments such as blackmail and counter-terror against Mau Mau in Kenya. Guillam is a romantic at heart, having several immature love affairs with younger women and driving expensive sports cars. And Leamas, the spy who came in from the cold, is described as a disillusioned but dedicated spy who is willing to take great risks in that book and also able to kill a guard with his bare hands. The Looking Glass War, the book before Tailor, Tinker, Soldier, Spy, depicts a rival organisation to the Circus, the Department, that seems to be tailored after the SOE. Here a retired agent from World War II is trained at great lengths by a commando type instructor. Scenes that you could also imagine with Bond.

#16 MkB

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 05:22 PM

Cars are obviously a quick and easy (and wonderful) reference point for the Bond books/movies. One of my favourite moments in the televised Le Carre series is when Guillam opens the door to his fancy Porche (or something similar) to Smiley who grimaces and says: "What a horrible car." Or something like that. It was a great de-bunking moment. Can't remember if it appears in the book.


Nice one indeed :)
I haven't seen the TV series yet; if memory serves, there's not a direct line like that in the books, but it's clearly the bottom line of Smiley's opinion about Guillam's car, through the flow of his inner thoughts or some funny touches (I believe at one point Guillam has to give Smiley a blanket to wrap around himself, because of the draughts in his uncomfortable sportscar).