35 replies to this topic

[Chemateo]

I assume we all know about the Bond 17 Alphonse Ruggiero/Michael G. Wilson Bond 17 treatment. What I want to read is the Bond 17 screenplays by Willard Huyck & Gloria Katz and the two by Will Osbourne & Will Davies. Has anyone come across them or know where we can find them? I have been searching without any luck.

I am happy that I am a step closer in getting to read France's first draft thanks to Mr. Blofeld, if he clears his inbox. But my curiosity still remains high regarding the other incarnations of Bond 17. I really would like to see what both those teams would have brought to the table. Especially Huyck & Katz considering they did American Graffiti and Temple of Doom. I wonder what Cubby did not like about them that he ended up scrapping them all together.

[Royal Dalton]

I doubt there ever was a full Huyck and Katz script. Maybe a treatment of some kind.

The Osborne and Davies drafts were based on the Wilson and Ruggiero treatment. I don't think those scripts have ever been seen by outside eyes. I've got a copy of the story outline, though, which is very good, and not as far out as people have been led to believe.

The only reason it wasn't made was because Broccoli wanted some revisions made to it, and while that was going on, MGM was taken over and the whole thing stalled. A shame, though, as I think it would have been a fun and exciting Bond film if it had been made.

Will Osborne did some uncredited work on the GoldenEye script later on.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

I am happy that I am a step closer in getting to read France's first draft thanks to Mr. Blofeld, if he clears his inbox. But my curiosity still remains high regarding the other incarnations of Bond 17. I really would like to see what both those teams would have brought to the table. Especially Huyck & Katz considering they did American Graffiti and Temple of Doom. I wonder what Cubby did not like about them that he ended up scrapping them all together.

Yes, I too would be interested in reading these, if only to prove they actually existed! I'm no industry expert but I expect they were never intended to be fully used as working scripts, but more of a basis for potential ideas or to see if the writers were good writers for a Bond film. It wouldn't surprise me that if there were elements in those scripts that Cubby/Eon liked then they would be considered as potential writers when pre production commenced on GE proper. Furthermore my guess would be many writers were asked to put something together for Bond 17, but the work on the real story/script was only ever intended to begin when pre production officially started and a creative team assembled - namely first and foremost a director. Hence I'm not really surprised they were scrapped altogether, but it would be interesting to see what those writers came up with.
I also wonder if it was the case that MGM asked those writers to contribute rather than Eon/Cubby themselves.

[terminus]

There was an outline for the treatment that involved Hong Kong, China and Japan floating around somewhere on CBn a few years ago. It was interesting reading - and some of the elements later turned up in the early draft of TND you can find the script for if you look round on certain scrip writing websites.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I am happy that I am a step closer in getting to read France's first draft thanks to Mr. Blofeld, if he clears his inbox.

I haven't gotten a message from you, Chemateo...

[Chemateo]

The only reason it wasn't made was because Broccoli wanted some revisions made to it, and while that was going on, MGM was taken over and the whole thing stalled. A shame, though, as I think it would have been a fun and exciting Bond film if it had been made.

Interesting. Do you attribute the fun and excitement thanks to the new blood of Ruggiero? Because I cannot imagine MGW really being competent enough to move the series forward. I think MGW really dropped the ball when he wrote LTK all by his lonesome.

The only reason it wasn't made was because Broccoli wanted some revisions made to it

Do you have any idea what these revisions are?

Furthermore my guess would be many writers were asked to put something together for Bond 17, but the work on the real story/script was only ever intended to begin when pre production officially started and a creative team assembled - namely first and foremost a director. Hence I'm not really surprised they were scrapped altogether, but it would be interesting to see what those writers came up with.

I am not sure about waiting for a director. EON did not have a director signed when France began GE, although it has been rumored that Michael Canton Jones was being considered. I would have liked to have seen Dalton, Hopkins, France's much heralded 1st draft, and Canton Jones together. It would have been a nice send off for Mr. Dalton.

I haven't gotten a message from you, Chemateo...

Ah, I am getting on that right now!

[lgw007]

I doubt there ever was a full Huyck and Katz script. Maybe a treatment of some kind.

The Osborne and Davies drafts were based on the Wilson and Ruggiero treatment. I don't think those scripts have ever been seen by outside eyes. I've got a copy of the story outline, though, which is very good, and not as far out as people have been led to believe.

The only reason it wasn't made was because Broccoli wanted some revisions made to it, and while that was going on, MGM was taken over and the whole thing stalled. A shame, though, as I think it would have been a fun and exciting Bond film if it had been made.

Will Osborne did some uncredited work on the GoldenEye script later on.

Hi there Royal Dalton,

Where did you get a copy of the story outline for the aborted Bond 17? I'd love to get hold of a copy, but have searched high and low but to no avail on ebay and online. I've found articles where people have posted their own version of the outline but would love to get hold of the outline itself. It's dated May 8 1990, I believe... from a screengrab I have of the cover!

[Royal Dalton]

That's the one. I got my copy from a company called Script International. I don't know if they're still trading these days, though.

Do you attribute the fun and excitement thanks to the new blood of Ruggiero? Because I cannot imagine MGW really being competent enough to move the series forward. I think MGW really dropped the ball when he wrote LTK all by his lonesome.

Difficult to say, really. It's not a massive departure from the recent films. But it does feel more modern and a bit more hi-tech and outrageous, with robots, stealth cars and the like being involved.

[karr007]

Hello everyone!
Not if you knew, but last September 23, 2015, a strange script with a title written in pen "James Bond 17" was auctioned here:

http://propstore.auc...raft-Screenplay
Nobody could get to a transcript as Donovan made with the "Bond 17 outline"? Or to get entirely in pdf or something?

[glidrose]

Hello everyone!
Not if you knew, but last September 23, 2015, a strange script with a title written in pen "James Bond 17" was auctioned here:
http://propstore.auc...raft-Screenplay
Nobody could get to a transcript as Donovan made with the "Bond 17 outline"? Or to get entirely in pdf or something?

Thanks for the link!

[karr007]

Everything is to know more about the possible screenplays they had for Bond 17. Hopefully someday we can read completely this script.

[Mr. Somerset]

I wonder what sort of titles they might have been brainstorming for this script.  Aside from the rumored The Property Of A Lady- which never really made sense- for this treatment. Back in 90-93 there was very little info regarding the next film- only what you could get out of the Bond fan clubs.

[karr007]

I wonder what sort of titles they might have been brainstorming for this script.  Aside from the rumored The Property Of A Lady- which never really made sense- for this treatment. Back in 90-93 there was very little info regarding the next film- only what you could get out of the Bond fan clubs.

 

We'll never know, but maybe we can get an idea one day about one or more possible titles if we can read the full this script.

Edited by karr007, 25 April 2016 - 01:58 PM.

[DavidJones]

In Some Kind of Hero, there's a chapter on Bond 17 and it was interesting to read how there's a government bureaucrat character who wants to close down the Double 0 Section - much like Max Denbigh in Spectre. That's fascinating how an unmade Bond film from 25 years ago has influenced one today.

[Chemateo]

Haha, yes some time after I made this thread I found that link to the Davies & Osbourne draft! Of course I was too late! I would gladly I have bid £800 just to finally get my hands on a full fledged draft!

 

I also stumbled upon the book "Some Kind of Hero" a few months ago on google preview. So I have not been able to read the entire chapter. But what little I did was fun and informative. The author praised Osbourne & Davies screenplays. The author said this screenplay was just what Dalton needed to start cementing his Bond legacy and a vast improvement over Licence To Kill, which is no surprise there as G. Wilson is no writer.

 

You can tell that Broccoli & Co. were taking their time to craft a strong follow up that was modern, dangerous, and fun!

 

What amazes me is how much great material was being drawn up for Dalton's third installment and ended up being used in a number of future Bond films.   

 

- The silo sequence and helicopter blades from France's early Dalton drafts of GoldenEye were used in The World Is Not Enough.

 

- The crashing from the scaffolds and rope swinging from Quantum of Solace was also taken from GoldenEye.

 

- The Hong Kong handover elements in the early Bond 17 treatments were used in early ideas for Tomorrow Never Dies.

 

- The whole angle of still being relevant in a modern era (and modern weapons versus simple weapons) from SkyFall were also pulled from the Osbourne & Davies draft.

 

I honestly wish (besides the lawsuits and delay in film-making)  they never made Licence To Kill and replaced it with the Davies & Osbourne story, with a larger budget, new director and released it in the Fall of 1990. Along with Dalton getting a farewell with GoldenEye along with Anthony Hopkins as his Augustus Trevelyan.

 

If anyone stumbles across Osbourne & Davies draft up for auction or otherwise, please let me know! I still long to read it. Thanks in advance. Cheers!

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

It could have been so good.... No LTK, a second Dalton entry with a really good script and better production value in 1990 instead (and that should have been the first Bond movie that I would have seen on the cinema). Perhaps the success of this film, could have encouraged Dalton to stay in the role, and to EON to keep him.

[Mr_Wint]

Thank god it never happened. They got desperate after LTK and had som really, really, crazy ideas. I am guessing that the terrible screenplays produced during this time is one reason for the long delay after LTK.

[SecretAgentFan]

I must say, the robot idea never gelled with Dalton´s take on Bond for me.  I´m glad that LTK was made and that Dalton could bow out with two excellent films.

[Chemateo]

It could have been so good.... No LTK, a second Dalton entry with a really good script and better production value in 1990 instead (and that should have been the first Bond movie that I would have seen on the cinema). Perhaps the success of this film, could have encouraged Dalton to stay in the role, and to EON to keep him.

 

Perhaps a better film with a bigger take would have favored Dalton returning. That said, Cubby was loyal to Dalton and intended to have Dalton continue with the role after the legal muck was cleared. Dalton was even keen on the idea of returning for a third installment. Apparently Dalton did not want to do another three films, which Cubby felt was necessary.

 

Thank god it never happened. They got desperate after LTK and had som really, really, crazy ideas. I am guessing that the terrible screenplays produced during this time is one reason for the long delay after LTK.

 

What crazy ideas are you referring to? Have you read the screenplays? Apparently the Osbourne & Davies draft is very good according to authors Fields and Chowdhury. I have also read France's first draft of GoldenEye when Dalton was still attached to the role. I thought it was very good. A little bloated action wise but I still liked it better than the final draft that ended up on screen.

I must say, the robot idea never gelled with Dalton´s take on Bond for me.  I´m glad that LTK was made and that Dalton could bow out with two excellent films.

 

I think the "robot idea" tends to get a bad rap and is misjudged by people. Dalton is not fighting an army of robots/cyborgs. These robots are just advanced machinery in factories that deal with high risk situation, chemicals, etc. These plants are attacked and destroyed by terrorists. These advance machines were to be designed by Disney's Imagineering department. The script was going for a high tech contemporary feel, sort of like Spy Who Loved Me as a follow up to The Man With The Golden Gun.

[plankattack]

I must say, the robot idea never gelled with Dalton´s take on Bond for me.  I´m glad that LTK was made and that Dalton could bow out with two excellent films.

Absolutely. LTK has been debated in some great threads over the years, and while I do love and I'm not immune to what doesn't always work. But as a film it stands on its own, and I sometimes feel that the faults get pointed out as part of the general lukewarm reaction (outside of fandom let me stress) that Dalton's tenure receives.

If LTK was part of a longer run, I suspect it would receive far more generosity than it sometimes has. And I'll say this, the lead's performance is of a standard that every single other actor has struggled to match in even their best performance (yes, including say SC in FRWL or DC in CR) - TD in LTK? Bloody fantastic!

[Dustin]

I wonder if this theme of being "relevant" would ever have played a big role in Bond films without the gap between LTK and GE? The series usually kept a step away from the Cold War and only featured the theme from the fringe in most films. The talk about the 'end of history' and how it supposedly rendered spies obsolete sounded highly doubious even back in the day. With a regular Bond film in 1991 - and subsequent ones every other year - I could imagine nobody would have seriously questioned the need for Bond; not beyond a line of dialogue or two.

[SecretAgentFan]

True.  I believe that the relevancy of Bond was mainly a topic that was created by the reception of Bond films during the later 80´s and early 90´s, when other action blockbusters became more successful (Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, the Michael Bay-movies). 

 

The long hiatus could have been lethal to Bond if the series had not re-established itself so strongly with GOLDENEYE.

 

But, of course, that does not take away from LTK´s brilliance.  It is just one of those movies that was not in tune with the zeitgeist and only could be appreciated with passing time.

[Mr_Wint]

It feels like the issue with "Bond's relevance" was mainly invented by EON to take advantage of the fact that the Soviet Union just fell. They wanted to make a movie built around that theme. But I doubt that anyone familiar with the series would question the need for Bond around that time, given that very few films (starting with GF) had so little to do with the cold war.

 

And here we are 20 years later, still trying to figure out if Bond is relevant or not.

[SecretAgentFan]

It will be interesting to see how the Brexit will affect this.

[Dustin]

I'd say script wise it may possibly be avoided for a time. The whole topic is a most controversial affair and it wouldn't help the next film to head into an ongoing fight that divides the home audience. Maybe once the actual effects will reveal themselves a bit more clearly and people had a chance to experience them first hand there will be an opportunity for a Bond script to pick this up. From an angle, as per usual.

[SecretAgentFan]

I just hope it will not lead to another "Mi6 still relevant, under scrutiny etc."-subplot.

[Chemateo]

It feels like the issue with "Bond's relevance" was mainly invented by EON to take advantage of the fact that the Soviet Union just fell. They wanted to make a movie built around that theme. But I doubt that anyone familiar with the series would question the need for Bond around that time, given that very few films (starting with GF) had so little to do with the cold war.

 

And here we are 20 years later, still trying to figure out if Bond is relevant or not.

 

Bingo. From what I gleamed from interviews, the collapse of the Soviet Union and end of the Cold War brought about this angle. You have Nigel Yupland, who thinks Bond is an out of control cowboy whose days are numbered. Yupland wants to shut down the OO-section. This was also the time frame with an advancement in weaponry. The blitz of the first Iraq War was all over CNN. You had stealth bombers, smart missiles, end of the cold war, and the UN as a mediator. What need was there for agents of espionage?

 

EON had Dalton and Barbara and Michael wanted to take advantage of that. Unlike LTK, Dalton was allowed input and involved in the process of the next installment with the Osbourne/Davies and France's drafts. Dalton was also involved with EON in considering directors like Spottiswoode. They wanted to make a layered film that also exploited Dalton's dramatic chops and brought adventure. You can tell they wanted to explore new avenues and take some risks. Like they have now done so with Craig. But according to Osbourne or Davies, Cubby was resistant to change. If is not broken, why fix it? That was Cubby's outlook. We see that in the 80s with not wanting to break up the writing team of Wilson & Maibaum back in 85. Or doing Bond's origin story in 87, despite Wilson and Maibaum making a treatment for that.

[hoagy]

This would have been very, very interesting !  Much more intriguing than the "TV Drug Lord Movie" which was LTK.  Hopefully it would have had a more glamorous look than did most of LTK.  So much of LTK seemed like it was a step back, financially, in terms of how it looked on the screen, compared with prior films, and even with TLD.

On the other hand, it would have been dated rather quickly.

One of the smart things about the early films was how they did not pin the contest between Bond-and-Villain on the Cold War.  Rather, they transferred the contest, so to speak, to Bond-vs-SPECTRE.  I don't think they thought, at the time, the Cold War would soon end, but the results are much more timeless.  Oh, sure, the cars, the clothes, etc. pin it to a timeframe, but the plot becomes un-anchored.

At the time this script for Bond 17 was being developed, EON did not have the rights to SPECTRE, but they could have done what was done with, for example, TSWLM and turned a very SPECTRE-ish story into one with its own mad-scientist-villain.  I realize the goal with the Bond 17 script work was to get gritty and realistic, but they could have achieved much of that without being too tied down to a specific timeframe and real-world-politics which, sooner or later, get dated.

If Craig moves on, how about a one-time step back to the pre-Reboot Bond with Craig as an older, more mature Bond ?  Dalton has shown -- such as in the recent Penny Dreaful, that he still can be handsome and dashing.

As for the moving around between "Bond Universes" ?  Audiences can handle it !  Star Trek in films introduced a new timeline, and on TV they'll be going back to the old one, and audiences, over the period of time both entertainments will be offered, get both at once.  Star Wars just gave us mature Han Solo and they'll soon present a prequel origin Han, while the first set of films will continue with Han's mature contemporaries.

Dalton as an older Bond could be presented in today's preferred form for deeper drama -- long-form TV (as with The Night Manager) while, in the cinemas, they can stay with the younger Bond.

And -- this is all before I propose (again) that they simultaneously present Young Bond in period as in the books !

Yes !  We can have it ALLLLLL !!!!

APOLOGIES !!! Writing too fast -- what I mean was with DALTON returning as an older Bond.  I think you can tell this is what I meant because my next line starts with "Dalton has shown..."

[Chemateo]

Forgot to mention as well that:

 

- The Wai Lin character was first conceived here in this treatment and drafts. The character was originally named Mi Wai.

 

- The ski chase between Bond and Elektra was also in this treatment and draft. It was between Bond and Connie Webb, the acrobatic master thief.

 

I appreciate that the producers were trying to do something different with LTK. It does feel like the most modern and updated Bond film of that era. The realness and contemporary feel are a nice touch. But it fills me with regret every time. It was rushed, under budgeted, underdeveloped, and not using the best possible talent behind the scenes.

 

Every time I look back at this, I wish this film could have replaced LTK with all the fair attributes of a good release date, budget, and writer/director. I still wonder why EON did not at least wait for the writer's strike to end, to either use a real writer (they should have picked up Shane Black) or at least have Dick Maibaum to fix up G. Wilson's shortcomings.

 

I also wonder what actors they would have cast in the roles for the early incarnation of Bond 17.

[karr007]

If anyone is interested in this and can buy it   http://scriptcity.co...roduct&id=40668