41 replies to this topic

[bondfisher007]

I would have considered it a classic. I always stop the film when he shoots elektra and I also skip the ski scenes. It would have been nice if bond would have been into elektra mansion and talk about family history instead of the ski scene. This could have been a classic. The film should have ended with elektra being shot and renard should have been arrested by the british authorities.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

As weak as Miss Richards was in her role, it would have been fine if she had a brief Plenty O'Toole-style cameo in say the casino scene for instance. TWINE had a lot more problems than just her. The script itself plays like a mixture of OHMSS and AVTAK(not the most compatible mixture to say the least). In addition, the soap operatic nature of the story line, M acting and making decisions like the least competent MI6 female employee since Mary Goodnight, Brosnan's shortcomings in the dramatic department(especially compared to Dalton and Craig) and Bond acting like a sentimental dufus over a girl he hardly knows all hurt TWINE. It plays like a poor man's CR.

[Goodnight]

Forgive me if I come across a little confused but...

The topic title is "If TWINE did not have denise richards", but in your post here you don't mention Denise Richards at all. If I have got the wrong end of the stick then please tell me.

Personally I love the ski scene in TWINE.

[bondfisher007]

Forgive me if I come across a little confused but...

The topic title is "If TWINE did not have denise richards", but in your post here you don't mention Denise Richards at all. If I have got the wrong end of the stick then please tell me.

Personally I love the ski scene in TWINE.

It would have been great if bond was out for revenge against elecktra instead of having denise richards that distracts him from being mad at her. imagine if dalton played the role. he would have been pissed off that elecktra betrayed him. after watching the film i believe that brosnan can be the best soap opera actor lol

[Simon]

If you understand that TWODDLE was a film based entirely on compromises between all the 'proven saleable' aspects of past Bond successes, then one would understand that Richards' role was solely that of providing some arm candy for the closing sequence.

An idea that was thankfully and bravely jettisoned when one did it again for CR '06.

But this film could really have been successfully edited to little more than a half hour TV short.

- Shorten boat sequence
- Remove ski sequence
- Remove Richards' character
- Shorten all that running around on the caviar factory walkways
- Tightly edit Brosnan's A-C-T-I-N-G (to be fair, he was probably encouraged to perform all that nonsense - he is emminently capable of far more relaxed and Cool performances)
- Shorten M's buffoonery of charging over hill and dale for ultimate capture

Clearly a case of a film's high expectations through plenty of good feeling and lots of thinking time that ultimately fell flat. TND's guerrilla filming, on-set tensions and lack of time pulled forth better performances than ever did TWODDLE - at least its first half which was probably Brosnan's best hour of Bond.

[The Shark]

Denise Richards's casting is the least of the film's megaton of problems.

It would still have a by-the-numbers David Arnold score; a cheap Shirley Bassey-knock off title song; a shoddy schizophrenic script that sways between half-arsed attempts at 'worthy' drama and Jerry Bruckheimer-lite action setpieces for the teens; tepid, almost clueless direction from Michael Apted; bland cinematography from Robert Elswit; Robbie Coltrane's Russian Mafia boss turned into a comedy goofball; Sophie Marceau's laughable attempts at gravitas; Robert Carlyle being criminally underused; Brosnan's worst and most inconsistent performance to date as James Bond; Judi Dench now being an 'Oscar Wining Actress™' is therefore she's turned into a ineffectual grandmother spouting psychobabble, and making erratic, nonsensical decisions in attempts by the filmmakers to advance the plot (i.e. demanding to be sent to some country in Eurasia to meet Elektra because of her 'motherly instincts') and a lame gadget-car that does everything - for the nth time.

But most importantly, there's a lack of self-awareness - not knowing how and where to laugh at itself, something the Roger Moore era for all its faults, knew how to do in spades. They were never as earnest as this, and almost always managed to see the humour in itself.

As it is now, the film remains an unintentional farce.

[Mr. Blofeld]

TND's guerrilla filming, on-set tensions and lack of time pulled forth better performances than ever did TWODDLE - at least its first half which was probably Brosnan's best hour of Bond.

You could say similarly about QOS -- constant rewrites and on-the-move location shooting certainly gave the film a pace it might otherwise not have had, regardless of the editing.

Another interesting feature: TWINE and QOS both share reused action sequences from Michael France's GoldenEye script; TWINE split up a sequence involving Bond and the heroine skiing away from a treesaw-wielding helicopter into the parahawk sequence and the caviar factory sequence (as well as the explosion in the pipeline sequence being reused from the same script, which had, later in production, become the escape from the exploding Tiger helicopter), wheras QOS kept its reused sequence, the plane chase and parachute jump over the sinkhole, in one piece -- and came out, I think, the better for it.

[DR76]

Denise Richards didn't bother me one bit. She's not the world's greatest actress, but I thought she did a solid job as Christmas Jones. Hell, she was better than the likes of Barbara Bach, Mie Ama and Lois Chiles. And she didn't irritate me like Sophie Marceau did in the film's last half hour.

[ChristopherZ22]

Denise Richards is not the main problem for me. I have warmed up to her in recent years. The two main problems for me are the action scenes which I find dull and tired, and the visual style or cinematography which is dark, dreary, and depressing. It is not a bad film and there are some classic moments like Bond shooting Elektra, and Zukovsky's death scene. Brosnan and Dench are good, but the film should have been more exciting. It is all very dreary and the makers didn't seem like they were having fun. Actually, I would say the soap opera style drama scenes are more interesting than the action sequences.

GoldenEye also has the same dreary and depressing visual style. Although GoldenEye is a bit more fun than TWINE.

[Achille Aubergine]

Personally I think she was here for satisfying the teenage boy audience. If Dr Jones would have been played by a more mature woman, maybe she would have been more interesting...Just my opinion.

[Messervy]

Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist is a joke!
She clearly was cast as the typical "Bond girl" (the wet T-shirt in the sub is quite a sight!), but should have been restricted to some Plenty-O'Toole-like role.
Besides, she really delivers a poor performance. Even Maryam d'Abo is a better actress (which says it all, since I find d'Abo really poor).
To answer the question, I guess TWINE would've worked way better without her. On the whole, it's a pretty enjoyable movie, and if it weren't for some scenes (caviar factory, sub scene) it could've been even better.

[Simon]

..... almost clueless direction from Michael Apted;

Agreed on all points, but especially on the above.

Apted has, in my viewing experience of his films, never shown anything but bland respect for his script. I remember watching a couple of his other films only to think just how bland they were and to end up in Not being surprised they were directed by Apted. I believe he has probably done stirling work on the 7 Up TV series, but I feel has shown himself to be consistently out of his depth in film and massively out of synch on Bond.

In this then, my 'blame' for this work lies at the feet of the producers who really should have chosen more appropriately. An area where Brosnan really did deserve better chances at doing work he has done elsewhere to such good effect.

To wit then, my dismay at this film was right at the beginning when all Apted could come up with to showcase the Guggenheim was a whip pan from Bond to building. Even as a non-director, I know this building could have been better introduced to indicate geography. Truly dreadful.

[Messervy]

..... almost clueless direction from Michael Apted;

Agreed on all points, but especially on the above.

Apted has, in my viewing experience of his films, never shown anything but bland respect for his script. I remember watching a couple of his other films only to think just how bland they were and to end up in Not being surprised they were directed by Apted. I believe he has probably done stirling work on the 7 Up TV series, but I feel has shown himself to be consistently out of his depth in film and massively out of synch on Bond.

In this then, my 'blame' for this work lies at the feet of the producers who really should have chosen more appropriately. An area where Brosnan really did deserve better chances at doing work he has done elsewhere to such good effect.

To wit then, my dismay at this film was right at the beginning when all Apted could come up with to showcase the Guggenheim was a whip pan from Bond to building. Even as a non-director, I know this building could have been better introduced to indicate geography. Truly dreadful.

And the connection to the topic is?

[The Shark]

..... almost clueless direction from Michael Apted;

Agreed on all points, but especially on the above.

Apted has, in my viewing experience of his films, never shown anything but bland respect for his script. I remember watching a couple of his other films only to think just how bland they were and to end up in Not being surprised they were directed by Apted. I believe he has probably done stirling work on the 7 Up TV series, but I feel has shown himself to be consistently out of his depth in film and massively out of synch on Bond.

In this then, my 'blame' for this work lies at the feet of the producers who really should have chosen more appropriately. An area where Brosnan really did deserve better chances at doing work he has done elsewhere to such good effect.

To wit then, my dismay at this film was right at the beginning when all Apted could come up with to showcase the Guggenheim was a whip pan from Bond to building. Even as a non-director, I know this building could have been better introduced to indicate geography. Truly dreadful.

And the connection to the topic is?

It's a fairly logical progression: from the false notion that Denise Richards is TWINE's only stumbling block > to me ranting on about everyone of the film's failings > to Simon agreeing with me, and zoning in on Apted's direction. Over all, this thread's more about TWINE's problems than Denise Richards.

[Chief of SIS]

Shark and Simon, you guys stole the words right out of my mouth. To me it felt like Apted was trying to make a big bond blockbuster without fully understanding how to control its direction, progression and style. Some of the setting changes are jarring and even set design and layout can be puzzling at times. (The casino scene seems like it was stuffed in a sardine can every time I think about it and the direction at the dock section makes it hard to follow where Bond is in relation to everything else.) Though I have an odd love affair with TWINE most likely because Brosnan had some really nice moments, Apted dropped the ball everywhere else and when it came to someone like Denise Richards who could have used some strong direction, Apted did not seem to be there to led a helping hand.

Edited by Chief of SIS, 02 December 2010 - 01:26 PM.

[Messervy]

And the connection to the topic is?

It's a fairly logical progression: from the false notion that Denise Richards is TWINE's only stumbling block > to me ranting on about everyone of the film's failings > to Simon agreeing with me, and zoning in on Apted's direction. Over all, this thread's more about TWINE's problems than Denise Richards.

Oh, well, I see. So when a topic says "If TWINE did not have Denise Richards", it really is not about Denise Richards. I get it.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Over all, this thread's more about TWINE's problems than Denise Richards.

Well, then, let's have a mod retitle it to fit the rejiggered premise.

I think the main problem with TWINE is that they wanted to have their cake, and eat it, too; they wanted serious, moody drama, but also light-hearted action (and lots of it) -- I don't think they fully had a grasp on how to balance them out, yet (we already saw a glimpse of this whiplash in the giddy car chase following Paris Carver's death in TND), and they probably needed more time to do so, but soldiered on, anyway.

The action often conflicted vastly with the drama (the film often seems like an uneasy gestalt between an action-comedy and a modernized Merchant Ivory production), and it seems, to compensate for all the dramatics, the producers threw in more action sequences than was needed -- even, in one case, splitting up an unused action sequence from a previous script and dropping one of the pieces directly into the middle of an interrogation sequence, with no repercussions to the characters whatsoever.

Sadly, for TWINE, it appears EON has only the Lucas-ian excuse for why they didn't try to strengthen their human characters and drama: "Well, if we have enough action, no one will notice."

[Goodnight]

Oh, well, I see. So when a topic says "If TWINE did not have Denise Richards", it really is not about Denise Richards. I get it.

I don't understand that either. I'm not even sure what this thread is actually about.

[Judo chop]

If TWINE did not have Denise Richards, then some other film would have to have had her. And if Bond is about anything, he's about sacrifice.

[Chief of SIS]

If TWINE did not have Denise Richards, then some other film would have to have had her. And if Bond is about anything, he's about sacrifice.

If TWINE didn't have her, Charlie Sheen would have had to keep her. Another sign of Bond's quest against evil.

[Simon]

..... almost clueless direction from Michael Apted;

Agreed on all points, but especially on the above.

Apted has, in my viewing experience of his films, never shown anything but bland respect for his script. I remember watching a couple of his other films only to think just how bland they were and to end up in Not being surprised they were directed by Apted. I believe he has probably done stirling work on the 7 Up TV series, but I feel has shown himself to be consistently out of his depth in film and massively out of synch on Bond.

In this then, my 'blame' for this work lies at the feet of the producers who really should have chosen more appropriately. An area where Brosnan really did deserve better chances at doing work he has done elsewhere to such good effect.

To wit then, my dismay at this film was right at the beginning when all Apted could come up with to showcase the Guggenheim was a whip pan from Bond to building. Even as a non-director, I know this building could have been better introduced to indicate geography. Truly dreadful.

And the connection to the topic is?

Well Messervey, chappy at the beginning of the thread said,

"If TWINE did not have Denise Richards, this film would have been a classic..."

My dual response was to offer my humbly opinionated interpretation of the reason for her presence at all, and then to offer contexted reason why this film would never have been considered a classic, with or without Richards.

I think it is all baked right there into the title and the response appears, even upon review, to amply respond.

Upon further reflection though, I could just as easily have said, 'I disagree' and left it at that.

What do you think?

[DR76]

Storywise, I have no problems with "THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH". I think it was Brosnan's second best film. But I feel that it suffered from a few flaws - namely the photography, the dreary settings, the submarine sequence that dragged the finale, and Sophie Marceau's over-the-top performance in the film's final half hour. Other than that, I enjoyed it very much.

[The Shark]

And the connection to the topic is?

It's a fairly logical progression: from the false notion that Denise Richards is TWINE's only stumbling block > to me ranting on about everyone of the film's failings > to Simon agreeing with me, and zoning in on Apted's direction. Over all, this thread's more about TWINE's problems than Denise Richards.

Oh, well, I see. So when a topic says "If TWINE did not have Denise Richards", it really is not about Denise Richards. I get it.

That's because there's nothing to discuss.

[Judo chop]

Storywise, I have no problems with "THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH". I think it was Brosnan's second best film. But I feel that it suffered from a few flaws - namely the photography, the dreary settings, the submarine sequence that dragged the finale, and Sophie Marceau's over-the-top performance in the film's final half hour. Other than that, I enjoyed it very much.

So, other than the way the film looks, and significant portions of the acting, it's good.

I think that's called "the script". Makes you wonder why they bothered with all those buses, planes, cameras and people.

[The sniper was a woman]

the submarine sequence that dragged the finale, and Sophie Marceau's over-the-top performance

Yes. IMO that's more a problem for the quality of the film...
She's young, pretty...my doctor too and she's quite capable !

[Doctor Whom]

Storywise, I have no problems with "THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH". I think it was Brosnan's second best film. But I feel that it suffered from a few flaws - namely the photography, the dreary settings, the submarine sequence that dragged the finale, and Sophie Marceau's over-the-top performance in the film's final half hour. Other than that, I enjoyed it very much.

The Pierce Brosnan Era looks worse and worse as it recedes in my rearview mirror.

I give the producers credit for trying to add real drama to a Bond film, but (at least in this film) it really doesn't quite mesh with the action-adventure template upon which all Bond films are based. They got the mix right in Casino Royale, but that film was like lightning in a bottle.

[plankattack]

If TWINE did not have denise richards...........?

Well, hopefully they would have found another attractive starlet with minimal resume to replace her.

Ta dum!

As the long-time defender of TWINE that I am, even I'm not oblivious to the faults that it has. And as much as I'm not Ms Richards hugest fan when it comes to the acting-stakes, I think it's only fair that she gets some exoneration from the baying mob! Is she really the weakest character in the film? As far-fetched the idea that she's a nuclear scientist, as ham-handed the "Christmas" puns are, TWINE's failure to reach the heights it aspired to aren't centred in the character of Christmas Jones - she is completely in-line with far too many of the female characters that EON have come up with. Worse than Ekland's Goodnight? No. Roberts' Stacey Sutton? No. Worse than even Arterton's Fields (sorry, IMHO she adds nothing to QoS - I find the other female lead far more interesting and whose potential as a character is never tapped as much as it could have been). No!

TWINE is about Bond-Elecktra, and despite Brozza's best efforts, I'm never convinced by the dynamics of that relationship, buried as it in its bizarre battle of shape-shifting accents and hyper-obvious emoting by the two leads.

Replacing Richards wouldn't have changed the finished product. Replacing Marceau and TWINE might really have been onto something.

[Judo chop]

Replacing Richards wouldn't have changed the finished product. Replacing Marceau and TWINE might really have been onto something.

How’s it going, you old Plankton, you?

You’re right. Richards is merely salt in the gushing, pussing wound that is TWINE. However, spread her across a bed of mashed potatoes, or around the lip of your margarita glass, and suddenly she’s making everything taste better.

[Achille Aubergine]

The Pierce Brosnan Era looks worse and worse as it recedes in my rearview mirror.

It's a bitter disappointment for me to write that but...I'm agree with you.
One exception however, Goldeneye.

[Mr. Blofeld]

One exception however, GoldenEye.

GoldenEye would've been a lot better if they'd kept Dalton and stuck much closer to France's original draft -- there were certainly much stronger character motivations and action sequences, even if there probably were a few too many henchmen running around to keep track of...