7 replies to this topic

[Briane1911a1]

I just finished reading the new Deaver article on the front page of the web site where he talks about how he's going to update Bond to today, and the other details he mentioned about how he was given the offer; what blew me away, and what I wanted to ask any other writers here on the forum, is that Deaver's outline for the book comes in at 180 pages! For my latest novel, The Eagle Intercept (coming soon), the outline's only 18 pages! I feel so inadequate suddenly! I'm sure he's filling up with details and other items while I only have story details in mine, but thinking of an outline being that long leaves me stunned.

So... for the writers... have you ever gotten that far (if you outline, that is) and if so, how?

[zencat]

The length surprised me as well, but Deaver is really into his outlines. He's actually said writing the book is relatively quick and easy. He does all his plot work at the outline stage.

[Zorin Industries]

Planning and plotting can feel like homework but saves so much pain and suffering down the line. It is also a vital part of the drafting process - i.e. it helps you see the wood for the trees before some other saplings get in the way. But there is also an important element of free-wheeling. But free-wheeling is only great if you have things planned beforehand so you know what you want to achieve, but more importantly you know what you don't want to achieve.

[volante]

It doesn't really come as a suprise to me.

Deaver novels come in at 500+ pages.

With over 20 characters to build backgrounds for; 60 to 80 pages could easily be taken up charting emotions, and traits.
The timeline of the story (I believe 4 to 5 days)needs to be recorded for each of the major players; thats probably another 10 - 15 pages.

Twists and turns, red herrings and misdirection; also need to be played out. Again 10 - 15 pages.

Geographical and weather features for the many exotic locations, 5 - 10 pages.
The science and spec for the Cars and Guns; background on the '00' section.
...and then of course there's the story itself.

I'm sure Mr. Deaver wants to surround himself in Bond's world; then the story telling can flow.

[dlb007]

As a former creative writing student (graduated in 07) and someone currently working on a novel, I must say that I am rather surprised at the monstrous outlines that Deaver creates. Most authors I've spoken with extensively (granted, not too many, with the too most well-known being Robert Olen Butler and T.C. Boyle) consider a full outline roughly 15-20 pages, but this does shift depending on how meaty the novel being written actually is. Deaver tends to write 500+ page novels packed full of various character, settings, historical details, etc. I think he just likes to keep all his material strictly packed so as not to lose one tidbit of information. I know writers who scoff at the idea of outlines and can simply sit in front of the word processor and blast out a piece in no time and I know of others who would be lost without them. Personally, I've drafted projects with and without outlines. To me it is just a personal preference. If it is something I'm writing based on personal experience, I feel no need to outline as much of the situations, characters, expressions, feelings, are all in my head.

Briane1911a1 - 18 pages is a fine count for an outline. Remember, the finished project is more important than the outline. A 180-page outline can still result in a dud novel, whereas a three-page outline can result in a masterpiece.

Cheers and continued success and enjoyment with your writing!

[OmarB]

I am in total agreement with him. I went to college for English Literature and Journalism. I found though that the most valuable writer's tools for me were two books by Ayn Rand, "The Art Of Fiction" and "The Art Of Non-Fiction." Both books take apart her method and shows a step by step process that helped me immensely. One of the things I learned from her was the highly detailed outline. It's the whole book, scene for scene with character notes, research notes, stage directions, etc. I've found that this way works really well, the outline done right in order could be about half a page to a page for each scene/sequence and the mechanics of the whole story, beat for beat can be worked out, tinkered with and made perfect before you even start. Another of my favorites Terry Goodkind writes with this method and I'm pretty happy to hear Deaver works this way too.

Usually if a book fails it's in the outline phase, pacing, plotting, setting, everything can be worked out really well at this stage or fall flat. Not everyone can write whole books in that stream of consciousness way.

[terminus]

Like the previous two posters, I did a degree in creative studies - but I don't write extensive outlines when I'm writing a piece of work. My outlines tend to be about one or two pages for a short story with all the main plot points in bullet point form - whereas, for my recent fanfic script, the outline for it was about ten pages with snippets of dialogue and the odd description of a location.

[Captain Tightpants]

180 pages might be a little mis-representative. I saw the video where he explains his process, and he showed one of the pages which was really wuite sparse: "Scene 29A - plot detail - two questions" was basically it. He no doubt writes up a blow-by-blow treatment, and then goes through and plans out each scene to keep himself on-track. But I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of those pages are like the Scene 29A page and mostly blank to allow for scribblings.