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E-X-sential Bond?


39 replies to this topic

#31 Trident

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:48 PM

Glad you liked it. Perhaps I'll expand on it one day.


Another would be a story involving a very elderly Bond - Fleming's Bond, who would be in the neighborhood of 90 these days - dealing with the modern world, with perhaps a touch of senility complicating things.


Read Weinberg Vol III for that. It's there.


Sorry, I don't understand the reference.


You should just read Sam Weinberg's "Moneypenny Diaries" Vol III - "Final Fling".

What you are looking for is in that book. And done beautifully. B)


Agreed! And David is not easy to please when it comes to Bond.

#32 Jim

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 08:48 PM

Everything must go.

#33 Trident

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:39 AM

Ah, the 'shove all'-faction is getting stronger. We'll probably never see something so drastic happen to Bond, but I have to admit the idea does have a certain attraction. Wonder what would come up on that road...

#34 David Schofield

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:06 AM

I wonder, though, how the "James Bond but in name only reboot" will work with the initial serious reviews, and subsequently the book buying public.

If the book doesn't taste of Fleming, if Deaver has gone for a decks-cleared reboot, he will get filleted by the likes of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and other British publication who get advanced copies. Regardless of what his supporters feel, Deaver IS only an airport doorstop pulp merchant; he does not carry one inch of the literary kudos of Ian Fleming - or Sebastian Faulks. It is not just British James Bond fans who are protective of our literary heritage.

Further, many American reviewers (okay, pre-BP) have a fond, perochial view of lit Bond, rather like Sherlock Holmes. Fleming's version embodied a Britain they were comfortable with. SImilarly, many of these might not need a non-Brit-traditional reboot, they may be happy with their own heroes - Wyatt Earp, John Wayne, Rambo, JB's Bourne and Bower - without making the original JB indistinguishable from the other two.

Bad reviews, potential ridicule, and I don't see even Deaver's best-selling reputation saving the Christmas turkey coming in May and it missing out on the best sellers lists.

I hope these consequences have been considered.

#35 Jericho_One

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:05 AM

Hmmm... Something wicked this way comes?

#36 Trident

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:21 AM

I wonder, though, how the "James Bond but in name only reboot" will work with the initial serious reviews, and subsequently the book buying public.

If the book doesn't taste of Fleming, if Deaver has gone for a decks-cleared reboot, he will get filleted by the likes of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and other British publication who get advanced copies. Regardless of what his supporters feel, Deaver IS only an airport doorstop pulp merchant; he does not carry one inch of the literary kudos of Ian Fleming - or Sebastian Faulks. It is not just British James Bond fans who are protective of our literary heritage.

Further, many American reviewers (okay, pre-BP) have a fond, perochial view of lit Bond, rather like Sherlock Holmes. Fleming's version embodied a Britain they were comfortable with. SImilarly, many of these might not need a non-Brit-traditional reboot, they may be happy with their own heroes - Wyatt Earp, John Wayne, Rambo, JB's Bourne and Bower - without making the original JB indistinguishable from the other two.

Bad reviews, potential ridicule, and I don't see even Deaver's best-selling reputation saving the Christmas turkey coming in May and it missing out on the best sellers lists.

I hope these consequences have been considered.



David, I really think this won't be of any much consequence, not a matter at all. The reviews X will get will be by the very same people that ordinarily review Deaver. It's the 'good reading fun'-desk of the various publications and thus will be the criteria X will be measured against. The same that review Dennis Lehane and Ian Rankin, Stephen King and Dan Brown. The prime criterium will be if it's entertaining, suspenseful and gripping. This is what readers choose their plane-fodder after and this is also what Fleming wanted to achieve.

Project X is placed on a decidedly different spot on the literary spectrum than DMC was. There a literary master had a go at 007, his critics were raving and look how that turned out to be. It was the work of someone who never had to write 'genre' and criminally underestimated the task. His reviews were positive nonetheless, because those reviewing DMC had the nebulous notion, this would be what a thriller would most probably read like; if they ever happened to read one, that is.

X on the other hand is far from claiming to be Fleming. Or from any higher aspirations on literary value one might associate with names like Amis or Faulks. It's exactly what many lesser adventure series have done long since with their property, from Ludlum to Clancy to Cussler. It's franchising the creation on a professional basis and in effect it's only really what the films have done long ago. The books have even followed that example. From LR the Gardners' cover read "Ian Fleming's Master Spy James Bond in... by... ".

Apart from that, I feel sure it won't be an 'in name only' affair. While tempting perhaps, I doubt the product of X will be so far from Bond as to be unrecognisable. X will have to bring fresh blood to the franchise, both creatively and in terms of audience potential. Yet it will also have to keep the hardcore fanbase happy.

#37 Loomis

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:29 AM

If the book doesn't taste of Fleming, if Deaver has gone for a decks-cleared reboot, he will get filleted by the likes of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and other British publication who get advanced copies.


Weren't those the papers that gave DEVIL MAY CARE rave reviews and praised it as more Fleming than Fleming? What do they know about Bond?

#38 Trident

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:37 AM

If the book doesn't taste of Fleming, if Deaver has gone for a decks-cleared reboot, he will get filleted by the likes of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and other British publication who get advanced copies.


Weren't those the papers that gave DEVIL MAY CARE rave reviews and praised it as more Fleming than Fleming? What do they know about Bond?


Exactly my point, there was an extremely generic idea of what a Bond book probably would be like around those circles. And, for lack of any hands-on experience whatsoever, they chose to claim DMC was extremly Flemmming-ish.

Frankly, I'd have sacked the whole bunch. On the very day.

#39 David Schofield

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:01 PM

If the book doesn't taste of Fleming, if Deaver has gone for a decks-cleared reboot, he will get filleted by the likes of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and other British publication who get advanced copies.


Weren't those the papers that gave DEVIL MAY CARE rave reviews and praised it as more Fleming than Fleming? What do they know about Bond?


Exactly my point, there was an extremely generic idea of what a Bond book probably would be like around those circles. And, for lack of any hands-on experience whatsoever, they chose to claim DMC was extremly Flemmming-ish.

Frankly, I'd have sacked the whole bunch. On the very day.


Of course, the praise for DMC was ludicrous. And misguided.

But is was positive and contributed to getting DMC out to the non-fanboys and the wider reading public.

Conversely, if Deaver's book is perceived as a wildly different, Yank-centric take on Bond bereft of the Fleming-Bond characteristics, the publicity will be holey negative and possibly verging on ridicule. If there is a perception that Deaver is pissing on the Fleming-Bond altar, however accidently, neagtive reviews will make newsworthy, good press.

Perhaps Deaver might get away with it on homesoil, but perhaps not.

I afraid whether we like the content of reviews, good ones, positive ones are much more valuable than bad when it comes to sales.

I suspect, therefore, that IFP will be very aware of this and will not give Deaver a remit to chuck everything.

I could be wrong, though.

#40 Trident

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:36 PM

I suspect, therefore, that IFP will be very aware of this and will not give Deaver a remit to chuck everything.

I could be wrong, though.


I don't exactly know how that idea X-Bond would entirely discard any Fleming basis suddenly became so associated with the actual X-product? I said it would perhaps be a tempting concept; some others, Loomis and Jim in particular, also advocated a white canvas. But, as far as I'm aware, none of us is Deaver in disguise or associated to IFP. At any rate I know that I'm not.

Everything I've read so far about X-Bond to me points to a carefully updated re-imagination of 007. It's not so hard if we put it this way, is it? There must be a zillion threads along the lines of 'What car would Bond drive/gun wear/tell the time with, if Fleming wrote the books today?'. And Gardner and Benson certainly were in a similar situation and had to find their answers to that kind of hypothesis too. It's not as if Project X was to feature Bond as a broker, a hairdresser or an estate agent.

And, as sales figures go, Deaver is by and far the name in The Continuation Club ™ that has sold the most copies of his books persistenly over nearly two decades. And internationally. He has a solid fanbase that must be compared with the Bond films, not just the continuations. His fans will certainly buy his Bond effort, there can be little doubt about that. Bond fans will buy his Bond effort. I think in that scenario actual reviews are not so much of a bother, even if they happened to be bad (which I don't seriously expect, as it's after all 'just fun reading', no strings attached).