113 replies to this topic

[zencat]

The evaluation scene in GE is them re-evaluating Bond to insure he was fit to return after he went rogue in LTK.

And I was told this by a person very close to the GE scripting process.

Really??? Never looked at it that way but...yeah, I can see that. Cool.

[Royal Dalton]

Yeah, that's true. And that scene wasn't even in the script when Dalton was still in the frame to play Bond. So, Brosnan's Bond was obviously intended, to some degree, to be a continuation of Dalton's.

[Loomis]

The evaluation scene in GE is them re-evaluating Bond to insure he was fit to return after he went rogue in LTK.

And I was told this by a person very close to the GE scripting process.

Really??? Never looked at it that way but...yeah, I can see that. Cool.

Yes, but it didn't make the final cut, so, really, it doesn't exist.

I don't doubt what doublenoughtspy is saying, but filmmakers obviously consider a million and one ideas during scripting and indeed during all stages of production. But nothing made it to the finished film that in any way suggests to the audience that the shrink was hired because of the events of LTK (or indeed that the events of LTK ever happened).

[Royal Dalton]

It was never blatantly stated in the script, either. But that was what the scene was supposed to be about.

[Loomis]

Sure, but then in Lee Tamahori's mind "James Bond 007" is a codename given to various agents. Should we believe that too?

(Personally, I do, but I know that most of you don't.)

[Royal Dalton]

No, that would be silly.

[jaguar007]

the Parkour chase is not narratively needed and its whole drive and story motif is repeated again at Miami Airport).

God forbid that a Bond movie have an action scene thrown in there that is not essential to the plot. The last time a Bond movie did that was...hmmm, let me think. EVERY Bond movie since Goldfinger!

Todays film audience expect a Bond movie to have some high end action scenes and stunts in them. I'm sure EON was a bit concerned about CR because really, it had far fewer action scenes than the previous several entries. It had been several years since a BOnd movie had a truly original action scene that had not been done several times before, and the parkour scene filled that gap.

[Loomis]

If we're talking about Bond films with action sequences that are not narratively needed, I give you QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with its unnecessary boat chase and dogfight/freefall (and neither sequence is even one tenth as exciting or impressive as CASINO ROYALE's parkour chase).

[Judo chop]

the Parkour chase is not narratively needed and its whole drive and story motif is repeated again at Miami Airport).

God forbid that a Bond movie have an action scene thrown in there that is not essential to the plot. The last time a Bond movie did that was...hmmm, let me think. EVERY Bond movie since Goldfinger!

Todays film audience expect a Bond movie to have some high end action scenes and stunts in them. I'm sure EON was a bit concerned about CR because really, it had far fewer action scenes than the previous several entries. It had been several years since a BOnd movie had a truly original action scene that had not been done several times before, and the parkour scene filled that gap.

All so true. I really don't understand where the complaint about CR's parkour comes from at all. (And most certainly not from people who claim to love AVTAK, the grandmother of all excess! ) It's only the most breathtaking stuntwork we've seen from Bond, oh, I don't know, probably since 1977. God forbid, as Jag said.

I really hope the reason we're scrutinizing its excesses so harshly is because we first feel CR raised the bar on character and story and elevated itself to a more advanced arena of cinema where such scrutiny is called for. Otherwise the argument reminds me of a previous poster from ages ago who was complaining that Craig wasn't "bulked up" enough in QOS. How quickly we forget the way things were.

[killkenny kid]

I have a lot to catch up with here at the forum. But, for me this is great news. Indeed.

[plankattack]

I really hope the reason we're scrutinizing its excesses so harshly is because we first feel CR raised the bar on character and story and elevated itself to a more advanced arena of cinema where such scrutiny is called for. Otherwise the argument reminds me of a previous poster from ages ago who was complaining that Craig wasn't "bulked up" enough in QOS. How quickly we forget the way things were.

Ah, never truer words were spoken by my good friend Judo. If we're nitpicking over one of more invigorating Bond action scenes in a long time, then we really are quite fortunate in terms of where the series stands.

The parkour sequence is a great way to begin the narrative - some terrific stuntwork and setting up the notion of Bond as a "blunt instrument." The whole sequence is "acrobat v bulldozer" with the action rather forcefully and obviously reflecting the career arc in the character. While not quite as iconic as the parachute jump in TSWLM, or the bungee jump in GE, I think the crane jump will be remembered quite fondly in time as one of "those moments."

If anything, the weakness in the film will always be the Miami chase - I think MC once referred to it as providing the explosions that the fans demand (I'm paraphrasing but I think it appears in the Empire magazine that came out at the time). And even then, I don't think it's the worst sequence - it's just that it has to compete with another similar sequence from the same film.

[Judo chop]

If anything, the weakness in the film will always be the Miami chase - I think MC once referred to it as providing the explosions that the fans demand (I'm paraphrasing but I think it appears in the Empire magazine that came out at the time). And even then, I don't think it's the worst sequence - it's just that it has to compete with another similar sequence from the same film.

I like the Miami sequence just fine. Campbell goes a little 'Goldeneye' on us the way he films the Bodyworld™ exhibit, but the characters are great. The chase through the airport lacks tension or novelty. The unveiling of the aircraft is a bit lacking in grandeur. Once they hit the tarmac I really don't have any complaints. I have small complaints over the whole Miami stretch, but there's really nothing out and out 'wrong' about any of it. Could've been better, but it's still not bad. Could've been cut, but I wouldn't want it cut.

[Harmsway]

If we're talking about Bond films with action sequences that are not narratively needed, I give you QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with its unnecessary boat chase and dogfight/freefall (and neither sequence is even one tenth as exciting or impressive as CASINO ROYALE's parkour chase).

Heck, the opening car chase (as neat as it is) isn't even needed. The film could have opened with Mr. White's interrogation, on the assumption that Bond got to Siena just fine after capping White in the knee at the end of CASINO ROYALE, and the pre-title action would have comprised of the rooftop chase.

[Loomis]

If we're talking about Bond films with action sequences that are not narratively needed, I give you QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with its unnecessary boat chase and dogfight/freefall (and neither sequence is even one tenth as exciting or impressive as CASINO ROYALE's parkour chase).

Heck, the opening car chase (as neat as it is) isn't even needed. The film could have opened with Mr. White's interrogation, on the assumption that Bond got to Siena just fine after capping White in the knee at the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE, and the pre-title action would have comprised of the rooftop chase.

You're quite right. I'd never thought of that before, but, yes, the Palio pursuit could have served just fine as the PTS with no loss of important narrative info.

Truth be told, aside from those first few fleeting, mysterious establishing shots over the lake and in the tunnel, I'm not a huge fan of that car chase. Like pretty much all the action in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, it's mediocre and uninvolving.

No, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is the film with a lot of spare fat on it, not CASINO ROYALE. At ninety minutes, and with much of that useless and surplus action trimmed, and maybe with Fields cut from the film entirely, QUANTUM could indeed have been that lean, mean, bullet of a movie its supporters like to paint it as.

[Safari Suit]

Everything after Bond was found in the dinghy with Honey has been complete deadwood. Fun though.

[Harmsway]

Truth be told, aside from those first few fleeting, mysterious establishing shots over the lake and in the tunnel, I'm not a huge fan of that car chase. Like pretty much all the action in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, it's mediocre and uninvolving.

Changed your tune, then?

No, QUANTUM OF SOLACE is the film with a lot of spare fat on it, not CASINO ROYALE. At ninety minutes, and with much of that useless and surplus action trimmed, and maybe with Fields cut from the film entirely, QUANTUM could indeed have been that lean, mean, bullet of a movie its supporters like to paint it as.

Quite right.

[The Shark]

The parkour sequence is a great way to begin the narrative - some terrific stuntwork and setting up the notion of Bond as a "blunt instrument." The whole sequence is "acrobat v bulldozer" with the action rather forcefully and obviously reflecting the career arc in the character.

By portraying Bond as an unstoppable, relentless, near-physically perfect machine?

I take that as a deeply misguided affront to Fleming's deeply flawed and mistakenly human Bond.

However, on that regard I consider Quantum of Solace to be even more at fault.

If anything, the weakness in the film will always be the Miami chase - I think MC once referred to it as providing the explosions that the fans demand (I'm paraphrasing but I think it appears in the Empire magazine that came out at the time).

Although paraphrasing you may be, that to be marks a clear and often untested misconception the creative talent and producers often have about us 'fans'.

Are we really explosion junkies? Aren't we not? Isn't that was separates us from the 12 year old ADD Brozza-generation teens who 'demand' these asinine Bruckheimer antics?

Otherwise the argument reminds me of a previous poster from ages ago who was complaining that Craig wasn't "bulked up" enough in QOS.

I'm not dead... yet.

Sorry folks.

[Loomis]

Truth be told, aside from those first few fleeting, mysterious establishing shots over the lake and in the tunnel, I'm not a huge fan of that car chase. Like pretty much all the action in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, it's mediocre and uninvolving.

Changed your tune, then?

More that I realised that I really only like the start of it. Once the cars leave the tunnel, it's pretty standard fare (although the subtitled police chatter is a nice touch, as is the fact that - for once - the police offers in a Bond film vehicle chase aren't portrayed as comical Keystone Kops) with no clever or memorable stunts and very little visual "wow" factor. And the revelation that someone has been in Bond's boot all along carries curiously little impact (dramatic or comic).

Like so much else in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, it's all really just a damp squib, I'm afraid.

[dinovelvet]

And the revelation that someone has been in Bond's boot all along carries curiously little impact (dramatic or comic).

Eh? Isn't the presence of the "someone" basically THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR CHASE?

[The Shark]

And the revelation that someone has been in Bond's boot all along carries curiously little impact (dramatic or comic).

Eh? Isn't the presence of the "someone" basically THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR CHASE?

Perhaps, but that presence is hardly projected at all during the chase. Poor execution, but interesting on paper.

Could be been Bond's Get Carter moment, but it just comes off as an anti-climax. More of a "wtf" than an "awesome!" moment. The randomness and timing of the freeze-frame before the title sequence only helps to compound that.

[killkenny kid]

BTW, I think Tamahori did a good job as director. He seemed to be able to handle it. I think DADs problems were elsewhere.

hmm... interesting. I worry were this may go, where do you think the problems come from, Zen?

[Judo chop]

And the revelation that someone has been in Bond's boot all along carries curiously little impact (dramatic or comic).

Eh? Isn't the presence of the "someone" basically THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR CHASE?

Perhaps, but that presence is hardly projected at all during the chase. Poor execution, but interesting on paper.

Could be been Bond's Get Carter moment, but it just comes off as an anti-climax. More of a "wtf" than an "awesome!" moment. The randomness and timing of the freeze-frame before the title sequence only helps to compound that.

I agree with both of you.

White is indeed the point of the chase. The QOS car chase is no more excessive than the Parkour chase which started this tangent or any other Bond car chase, and is far less ‘excessive’ (as if that’s suddenly a sin in Bond) than many. TSWLM? OP? AVTAK? TND? DAD?

I agree partly with Shark that the timing of the comedy when White is revealed stumbles, and the battering White receives does fall short of a total ‘HELL YEAH!’ rating because of the lack of clarity in shooting the chase, but I wouldn’t call it a dropped ball either, because it still works to some level. To offer some ‘subjective proof’, I laughed a healthy laugh the first time, and still genuinely smile at it these days. Though Forster unnecessarily fools around with the shot, seeing White does indeed bring a higher level of purpose to the chase before it, and Craig of course delivers for his part.

Could’ve been a better car chase, but then it’s already better than many to have come before it.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

PURE BOND! Come back Martin!

[Matt_13]

And the revelation that someone has been in Bond's boot all along carries curiously little impact (dramatic or comic).

Eh? Isn't the presence of the "someone" basically THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR CHASE?

Perhaps, but that presence is hardly projected at all during the chase. Poor execution, but interesting on paper.

Could be been Bond's Get Carter moment, but it just comes off as an anti-climax. More of a "wtf" than an "awesome!" moment. The randomness and timing of the freeze-frame before the title sequence only helps to compound that.

I agree with both of you.

White is indeed the point of the chase. The QOS car chase is no more excessive than the Parkour chase which started this tangent or any other Bond car chase, and is far less ‘excessive’ (as if that’s suddenly a sin in Bond) than many. TSWLM? OP? AVTAK? TND? DAD?

I agree partly with Shark that the timing of the comedy when White is revealed stumbles, and the battering White receives does fall short of a total ‘HELL YEAH!’ rating because of the lack of clarity in shooting the chase, but I wouldn’t call it a dropped ball either, because it still works to some level. To offer some ‘subjective proof’, I laughed a healthy laugh the first time, and still genuinely smile at it these days. Though Forster unnecessarily fools around with the shot, seeing White does indeed bring a higher level of purpose to the chase before it, and Craig of course delivers for his part.

Could’ve been a better car chase, but then it’s already better than many to have come before it.

I can't really criticize either chase, but the parkour chase does feel a BIT long, as spectacular as it is. Not the sort of thing I care about watching Bond though.