40 replies to this topic

[whiteskwirl]

Title says it all. For the purists, the PPK is the likely choice, but wouldn't it be better for Bond to have a gun with more stopping power? I don't know a lot about guns, so I'll just throw out one I like to start the discussion:

Beretta PX4 Storm Sub-Compact




It's small, yet still a large caliber gun for practical use. The one pictured is a 9mm, but .40 cal is also available.

What gun would you prefer Bond use in Project X? Stick with the PPK, or use something different?

[DAN LIGHTER]

Title says it all. For the purists, the PPK is the likely choice, but wouldn't it be better for Bond to have a gun with more stopping power? I don't know a lot about guns, so I'll just throw out one I like to start the discussion:

It's small, yet still a large caliber gun for practical use. The one pictured is a 9mm, but .40 cal is also available.

What gun would you prefer Bond use in Project X? Stick with the PPK, or use something different?

Looks like it would fit under the pillow no problem. I think Bond would need a new more modern gun if it's a reboot.

[zencat]

That's a bad looking gun. And it's a Beretta. I like this. Give the younger Bond a Beretta for his "post Fleming" missions (if we are following the "mental continuity" we hashed out this morning in a different thread). Good choice. Works as both the old and new. Beretta PX4. Even the name is cool.

For some reason I don't need the PPK (the way I do for the movie Bond).

[DAN LIGHTER]

Just need a modern day Geoffrey Boothroyd to cast an eye over it and we are good to go.

[zencat]

Would love Bryce003 to chime in on this one. Besides fine women and fine liquor, the man knows his weaponry.

[MattofSteel]

Looks cool. I wouldn't mind seeing that one. Nice throwback to Bond carrying a PPK before 'Dr. No' in the vague literary continuity as well (sort of how I assume all Craig's films take place 'before' the Dr. No story in his universe).

But cinematic Bond needs his Walther, certainly.

[Trident]

Hm, difficult. As the 00's are supposed to work under strict hush, the actual use for handguns is limited. After all, what makes a person more suspect than carrying a firearm? Also, keep in mind Bond may have to tail people to all kinds of locales, many of them probably protected by metal detectors and security. Running into such a surrounding armed would not be recommended standard operational procedure for a 00.

I would prefer Bond to only wear the real thing, once an assignment reaches the stages of 'condition red'. And then picking it up in the field, not smuggling the thing across borders himself (unless unavoidable). Make and type would depend on the requirements of the mission, setting, what is available and keeps Bond deniable. Simply doesn't do to carry equipment that screams 'Issued by the SIS'.

At home or on HQ duty Bond could carry with a fake-police licence, but actual use of the gun would have to be kept fairly limited.

[Righty007]

Hm, difficult. As the 00's are supposed to work under strict hush, the actual use for handguns is limited. After all, what makes a person more suspect than carrying a firearm? Also, keep in mind Bond may have to tail people to all kinds of locales, many of them probably protected by metal detectors and security. Running into such a surrounding armed would not be recommended standard operational procedure for a 00.

I would prefer Bond to only wear the real thing, once an assignment reaches the stages of 'condition red'. And then picking it up in the field, not smuggling the thing across borders himself (unless unavoidable). Make and type would depend on the requirements of the mission, setting, what is available and keeps Bond deniable. Simply doesn't do to carry equipment that screams 'Issued by the SIS'.

At home or on HQ duty Bond could carry with a fake-police licence, but actual use of the gun would have to be kept fairly limited.

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

[terminus]

If he has a diplomatic passport, doesn't that swing him past metal detectors at airports?

[Trident]

Hm, difficult. As the 00's are supposed to work under strict hush, the actual use for handguns is limited. After all, what makes a person more suspect than carrying a firearm? Also, keep in mind Bond may have to tail people to all kinds of locales, many of them probably protected by metal detectors and security. Running into such a surrounding armed would not be recommended standard operational procedure for a 00.

I would prefer Bond to only wear the real thing, once an assignment reaches the stages of 'condition red'. And then picking it up in the field, not smuggling the thing across borders himself (unless unavoidable). Make and type would depend on the requirements of the mission, setting, what is available and keeps Bond deniable. Simply doesn't do to carry equipment that screams 'Issued by the SIS'.

At home or on HQ duty Bond could carry with a fake-police licence, but actual use of the gun would have to be kept fairly limited.

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

The weapon is Bond. The gun is just a tool. Not carrying a firearm isn't the same as going unarmed (as well as carrying a gun/knife/weapon doesn't make one necessarily 'armed'). The nature of Bond's occupation makes guns a necessity, but not exactly at all times.

[Righty007]

Hm, difficult. As the 00's are supposed to work under strict hush, the actual use for handguns is limited. After all, what makes a person more suspect than carrying a firearm? Also, keep in mind Bond may have to tail people to all kinds of locales, many of them probably protected by metal detectors and security. Running into such a surrounding armed would not be recommended standard operational procedure for a 00.

I would prefer Bond to only wear the real thing, once an assignment reaches the stages of 'condition red'. And then picking it up in the field, not smuggling the thing across borders himself (unless unavoidable). Make and type would depend on the requirements of the mission, setting, what is available and keeps Bond deniable. Simply doesn't do to carry equipment that screams 'Issued by the SIS'.

At home or on HQ duty Bond could carry with a fake-police licence, but actual use of the gun would have to be kept fairly limited.

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

The weapon is Bond. The gun is just a tool. Not carrying a firearm isn't the same as going unarmed (as well as carrying a gun/knife/weapon doesn't make one necessarily 'armed'). The nature of Bond's occupation makes guns a necessity, but not exactly at all times.

I understand but you made it sound like carrying a firearm should be avoided simply because of things like metal detectors. In the Gardner novels, for example, Bond's suitcase had an airport security proof compartment. A "secret agent" like 007 knows how to properly conceal weapons.

[Jeff007]

British Police and some Intelligence are using Glocks but SAS and SBS are using Sigs. Personally, if he doesn't go with the brand that immediately identifies James Bond, "Walther", then he should use the Sig Sauer. I've used it many times and have never had a problem with it. This is the same gun that Bond uses at the end of Quantum of Solace.

Also I'm pretty sure that CIA use Sigs too.

[whiteskwirl]

British Police and some Intelligence are using Glocks but SAS and SBS are using Sigs. Personally, if he doesn't go with the brand that immediately identifies James Bond, "Walther", then he should use the Sig Sauer. I've used it many times and have never had a problem with it. This is the same gun that Bond uses at the end of Quantum of Solace.

Also I'm pretty sure that CIA use Sigs too.

You mean this one?

Sig Sauer P226

[Jeff007]

Yes! Same one I use. P226 with rail so you can add on lights. Hold 15 plus 1 in the chamber.

You can also remove that grip and put on a better one if you want.

[Major Tallon]

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

Yep. We're talking literary Bond here, and Fleming tells us that "Bond hated someone else touching his gun. He felt naked without it." (FRWL, Chapter 25). When Bond's on a mission, he's armed.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Arm Bond with pepper spray. Spray and run Bond would make an intresting turn of events.

[Jeff007]

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

Yep. We're talking literary Bond here, and Fleming tells us that "Bond hated someone else touching his gun. He felt naked without it." (FRWL, Chapter 25). When Bond's on a mission, he's armed.

Absolutely. Even in Dr. No the movie he is carrying his Beretta at the Chemin De Fur table in London. For literary Bond he is sometimes tailed in London back to his flat so I definitely agree for him to be carrying a concealed weapon around at all times.

[The Shark]

Preferably something compact, elegant, reasonably powerful, and concealable, in the vein of the PPK.

Mauser HSc:



Sauer 38H:



MAB Model D Pistol:



Remington 51:

[Bryce (003)]

Would love Bryce003 to chime in on this one. Besides fine women and fine liquor, the man knows his weaponry.

Ask and ye shall receive. Not any of my women or liquor (hey if we're at Guido's or Plan B, then "yes" on the booze, but women are your own dealings. )

I've been following this one for a bit as more of a sub-compact with heavy hitting power. To re-phrase Boothroyd from Dr. No, it's delivery is more like a cinder block through a plate glass window. It's a heavy hitter for sure. I actually am getting my hands on one courtesy of my range master this month in the .40.

In my Bond universe - or rather Bryce world - it's old school. Custom Browning HP as standard and PPK .380 as backup and casual carry.

IMO, regardless of manufacturer, Bond should carry a 9mm. Ammo is available anywhere. The ASP (modified S&W M39) is still one of the best covert options even though it's nearly 30 years old. Some of the variations of the Beretta 92 models in compact would do him well.

Ammunition as needed. Sub sonic rounds for wet work with a silencer, glasers or military hot tips "red eyes" for combat and good old hollow points or steel jacketed soft leads for everyday use.

As to the PPK, keep it .380 and still fitted for a silencer. An ITW rig behind the right hip rather than scabbard break away.

If this new incarnation of 007 opted for a revolver, there are a few of the Ruger and Colts that shoot both .357 and .38 special that could work. Less is more in terms of quantity of rounds. All it takes is one. I've timed (and been timed) in reloading with a revolver speed loader vs. a clip. Shave a tenth of a second and it's all the same IME.

I'll come back to this a bit later and give my take once I get my hands and about 100+ rounds on this Beretta.

"God created all men equal...Sam Colt made 'em even."

[Trident]

Hm, difficult. As the 00's are supposed to work under strict hush, the actual use for handguns is limited. After all, what makes a person more suspect than carrying a firearm? Also, keep in mind Bond may have to tail people to all kinds of locales, many of them probably protected by metal detectors and security. Running into such a surrounding armed would not be recommended standard operational procedure for a 00.

I would prefer Bond to only wear the real thing, once an assignment reaches the stages of 'condition red'. And then picking it up in the field, not smuggling the thing across borders himself (unless unavoidable). Make and type would depend on the requirements of the mission, setting, what is available and keeps Bond deniable. Simply doesn't do to carry equipment that screams 'Issued by the SIS'.

At home or on HQ duty Bond could carry with a fake-police licence, but actual use of the gun would have to be kept fairly limited.

James Bond should carry a firearm or at least some sort of weapon at all times. That's the nature of his occupation.

The weapon is Bond. The gun is just a tool. Not carrying a firearm isn't the same as going unarmed (as well as carrying a gun/knife/weapon doesn't make one necessarily 'armed'). The nature of Bond's occupation makes guns a necessity, but not exactly at all times.

I understand but you made it sound like carrying a firearm should be avoided simply because of things like metal detectors.

No, not at all. But I think if the new series is to reflect the present day situation, then the handgun would have to play a somewhat different role from Fleming's originals. The Beretta in the chamois holster and the PPK were part of Bond's wardrobe, regardless if abroad or at home. That's simply not practical any more.


Likewise the diplomatic passport/cover mentioned above. For a 'black' operation a diplomatic cover would be not exactly the best solution. It doesn't discount Bond working from an embassy/consulate entirely, but as a rule any 'official' connection to the UK should be avoided by 00s. On the other hand weapons and ammunition could well be provided by diplomatic bag and distributed to the operatives in the field.

In the Gardner novels, for example, Bond's suitcase had an airport security proof compartment. A "secret agent" like 007 knows how to properly conceal weapons.

Hm, I was never too sure about that solution, although it certainly serves to give Bond maximum independence. Ask any customs officer, there are no 'secret' compartments any more. Whatever gets smuggled successfully does so by sheer numbers and/or bribery (or, most often, a combination thereof), not by ingenious hiding/screening. If those guys set their aim to find something hidden, then they generally do so.

What I feel might work would perhaps be a gun transported broken down to its components, the way film-Scaramanga does. Components would have to fit into Bond's laptop, mobile (both of which would have to stay fully operational), keyring and so on. Still, it would be a high risk checking in on any major airport. Avoid if possible.

Nonetheless, I agree Bond should be armed on a general basis. Only I would choose a knife instead, either plastic or ceramic (drawback: brittle, could easily break when dropped). Knives are not to be underestimated and also used to belong to the secret weaponry of Fleming's originals.

Make no mistake, I don't generally discount handguns for X-Bond. I just think they shouldn't be over-emphasized.

[The Shark]

On the other hand weapons and ammunition could well be provided by diplomatic bag and distributed to the operatives in the field.

I think that's the most practical solution offered so far, and could similarly apply to any Q Branch gadgets. Isn't that already implied in Casino Royale 06, with Bond receiving his P99 and suppressor through a quotidian envelope sent to the hotel reception?

[Trident]

On the other hand weapons and ammunition could well be provided by diplomatic bag and distributed to the operatives in the field.

I think that's the most practical solution offered so far, and could similarly apply to any Q Branch gadgets. Isn't that already implied in Casino Royale 06, with Bond receiving his P99 and suppressor through a quotidian envelope sent to the hotel reception?

Exactly. Although I must say I wouldn't dare to deposit this ungainly piece at a hotel desk in a mere envelope. Even if it was lined there can really be little doubt about the contents and a good clerk would immediately inform his hotel security and the police.

[Righty007]

On the other hand weapons and ammunition could well be provided by diplomatic bag and distributed to the operatives in the field.

I think that's the most practical solution offered so far, and could similarly apply to any Q Branch gadgets. Isn't that already implied in Casino Royale 06, with Bond receiving his P99 and suppressor through a quotidian envelope sent to the hotel reception?

Exactly. Although I must say I wouldn't dare to deposit this ungainly piece at a hotel desk in a mere envelope. Even if it was lined there can really be little doubt about the contents and good clerk would immediately inform his hotel security and the police.

I love my Bond novels and films to be as realistic as possible also but we mustn't forget that without an element of fantasy, it ceases to be a Bond novel/film. A secret compartment for a firearm in luggage or wearing a shoulder holster 24/7, for instance, may not be practical in this day and age but in my opinion, those are some of the aspects that make him the James Bond we all know and love.

[Trident]

On the other hand weapons and ammunition could well be provided by diplomatic bag and distributed to the operatives in the field.

I think that's the most practical solution offered so far, and could similarly apply to any Q Branch gadgets. Isn't that already implied in Casino Royale 06, with Bond receiving his P99 and suppressor through a quotidian envelope sent to the hotel reception?

Exactly. Although I must say I wouldn't dare to deposit this ungainly piece at a hotel desk in a mere envelope. Even if it was lined there can really be little doubt about the contents and good clerk would immediately inform his hotel security and the police.

I love my Bond novels and films to be as realistic as possible also but we mustn't forget that without an element of fantasy, it ceases to be a Bond novel/film. A secret compartment for a firearm in luggage or wearing a shoulder holster 24/7, for instance, may not be practical in this day and age but in my opinion, those are some of the aspects that make him the James Bond we all know and love.

Phew, probably right. Realism shouldn't take the wheel entirely, lest we won't get a good thriller. I always felt 'Queen & Country' managed a good balance there, but admittedly 'Queen & Country' isn't (completely) Bond and Bond shouldn't aim (too much) for 'Queen & Country'.

[David Schofield]

The PPK ONLY if Bond's still driving the 1954 Continental Bentley or DB5.

Which he won't be. (He won't be, will he????)

So whatever handgun is considered sexy and realistic by the gun nutters on these boards is quite fine by me.

[Trident]

The PPK ONLY if Bond's still driving the 1954 Continental Bentley or DB5.

Which he won't be. (He won't be, will he????)

And the next can of worms is opened...

[Messervy]

I trust a Glock should be recomended. Sound, reliable, adequate.

[Harry Fawkes]

Considering that the 00 Section is now going to be a fully fledged assassination 'Bureau' of sorts, our man Bond would have to make use of what he found in the country he was actually working in (you see I doubt he'd get through airport security with a pistol on him or concealed in his luggage even though he's MI6; unless, of course, he has special dispensation - which I doubt considering the OO Section won’t officially exist in Deaver's book Doesn't officially exist is intelligence jargon for being undeniable when the hits the fan).

Once in the country though, I am sure he would go for the beloved Walther PPK . For a man like Bond it is the perfect weapon. It takes seven 9mm rounds (plus one in the hold if you care) and will slip into the small of his back quite easily.

The Browning semi automatic on the other hand would be a perfect substitute any day, if Bond couldn't get his hand on a Walther that is. (Try obtaining a Walther off the black market in, say, the Czech Republic or perhaps Albania, Libya, Lebanon or even Belgium. Near to impossible believe me).

Admittedly, the Browning is rather large for an assassin mind, but it takes thirteen (plus one in the spout) and was, at one time, the preferred handgun of the SAS.

Then of course there’s the Glock…

But then the list of good handguns is endless isn't it?

In my opinion, and to conclude my so-called penny’s worth for this thread, James Bond shouldn’t actually have a particular preference for a handgun. That way he ends up with what is called in the trade a pathetic trademark. Something the ‘opposition’ and ‘authorities’ can fasten onto, and that is bad, very bad, for a man in 007’s profession.

Whatever Deaver chooses for our man though, I for one don't mind. Each to his own, eh?

Harry Fawkes

[zencat]

Make no mistake, I don't generally discount handguns for X-Bond...

X-Bond.

Hmmm. That could catch on.

[TheREAL008]

Why not keep the Walther P99?