21 replies to this topic

[volante]

I read somewhere that TSWLM was a scene by scene re write of YOLT

WHAT?? I thought. So I watched them both and do you know; Its right.

Then I started thinking QOS Girl covered in oil V GF Girl covered in gold paint.
LALD Fight on the train V TSWLM Fight on the train V FRWL Fight on the train

The the question is, which of the Bond films is the most unique?
and which scenes in the later films owe their originality to a previous Bond film.

Enjoy

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Unique I guess are the first three DN (as an exotic spy adventure), FRWL (as a Cold War thriller) and GF (as the trademark Bond film). Then you have OHMSS, which is, there is no reason denying it, a case on its own. I think I would add LTK to that list for its "outside-MI6-personal-vendetta" theme. I think all other Bond films largeley follow the trends set in these five 007 movies.

[Safari Suit]

Like it or not Diamonds Are Forever was a big break from tradition at the time.

Licence To Kill, Tomorrow Never Dies and Casino Royale are probably the recent-ish films which have strayed furthest from established patterns, for better or worse (though TND is arguably another YOLT retread).

Moonraker is simultaneously one of the most (Bond in space?) and least (it's a retread of a copy of what was arguably already a simple upgrade) unique films in the series.

[zencat]

I read somewhere that TSWLM was a scene by scene re write of YOLT

WHAT?? I thought. So I watched them both and do you know; Its right.

Except that the entire Anya relationship/storyline -- which is really what Spy is about -- is nowhere to be found in YOLT. Nor is Bond in a competition to recover microfilm, nor has he killed the Bond Girl's lover. And YOLT is uniquely set in one country. Not so with TSWLM. In Spy Bond goes into the villain's lair at the end only to save the Ayna. Akia is in no jeopardy at the end of YOLT. Bond fakes his death in YOLT, which is the whole set-up of the movie. No fake death in TSWLM. No marriage scene or plastic surgery in TSWLM. And how about that key scene on a train in YOLT? Right. There isn't one. Nor is the henchmen used for comic relief. Nor does he survive. And who is the equivalent to Tiger in TSWLM? There is no Tiger in TSWLM. And what about the element of a "sacrificial lamb"? YOLT has one clearly. It's one of the more tragic sacrificial lamb scenes of the series. Spy, uniquely, has no sacrificial lamb. The mission is "personalized" in a completely different way.

The whole TSWLM/YOLT "remake" thing has always be a little overstated, IMO. When you break it down, the common elements they share (and they do share a lot) are shared by almost all the Bond films.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Except that the entire Anya relationship/storyline -- which is really what Spy is about -- is nowhere to be found in YOLT. Nor is Bond in a competition to recover microfilm, nor has he killed the Bond Girl's lover. And YOLT is uniquely set in one country. Not so with TSWLM. In Spy Bond goes into the villain's lair at the end only to save the Ayna. Akia is in no jeopardy at the end of YOLT. Bond fakes his death in YOLT, which is the whole set-up of the movie. No fake death in TSWLM. No marriage scene or plastic surgery in TSWLM. And how about that key scene on a train in YOLT? Right. There isn't one. Nor is the henchmen used for comic relief. Nor does he survive. And who is the equivalent to Tiger in TSWLM? There is no Tiger in TSWLM. And what about the element of a "sacrificial lamb"? YOLT has one clearly. It's one of the more tragic sacrificial lamb scenes of the series. Spy, uniquely, has no sacrificial lamb. The mission is "personalized" in a completely different way.

The whole TSWLM/YOLT "remake" thing has always be a little overstated, IMO. When you break it down, the common elements they share (and they do share a lot) are shared by almost all the Bond films.

True... but they share more elements than most, especially when you compare the both of them (and YOLT especially) to Dr. No; it's nearly a scene-for-scene remake, using nearly the same characters and same situations.

[Colossus]

The first 3 Bonds do have a freshness the others afterward lack since they were inventing the formula and in the process were breaking new ground with each new movie. It's like the jump from DN to FRWL brought so many new things and the jump from FRWL to GF brought even more unseen things, the jump to GF and TB for example didn't bring much even if it is a beloved Bond movie. Ditto for YOLT (and i love YOLT) and while the jump to OHMSS brought more unique things since the original trilogy it was by then the fifth movie and by that margin Bond mania was already on the wane so it was a last hurrah which is kind of fitting for being the ending one of the 60s. However a 60s Bond seems so different from anything afterward that even TB and YOLT by themselves have a lot of uniqueness that is copied later like you said with TSWLM.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

I read somewhere that TSWLM was a scene by scene re write of YOLT

WHAT?? I thought. So I watched them both and do you know; Its right.

Except that the entire Anya relationship/storyline -- which is really what Spy is about -- is nowhere to be found in YOLT. Nor is Bond in a competition to recover microfilm, nor has he killed the Bond Girl's lover. And YOLT is uniquely set in one country. Not so with TSWLM. In Spy Bond goes into the villain's lair at the end only to save the Ayna. Akia is in no jeopardy at the end of YOLT. Bond fakes his death in YOLT, which is the whole set-up of the movie. No fake death in TSWLM. No marriage scene or plastic surgery in TSWLM. And how about that key scene on a train in YOLT? Right. There isn't one. Nor is the henchmen used for comic relief. Nor does he survive. And who is the equivalent to Tiger in TSWLM? There is no Tiger in TSWLM. And what about the element of a "sacrificial lamb"? YOLT has one clearly. It's one of the more tragic sacrificial lamb scenes of the series. Spy, uniquely, has no sacrificial lamb. The mission is "personalized" in a completely different way.

The whole TSWLM/YOLT "remake" thing has always be a little overstated, IMO. When you break it down, the common elements they share (and they do share a lot) are shared by almost all the Bond films.

Yeah I agree. I've personally never bought the whole Spy is just a YOLT remake argument (although I don't dispute there are similarities). You could equally make comparisons of common elements shared by Thunderball and OHMSS for example.

[The Richmond Spy]

Quick grouping (no particular order)...just my opinion...

Most Unique
The Man With The Golden Gun - other than the fact that JW Pepper was in LALD, this seems extremely unique to me.
You Only Live Twice - thinking of its predecessors, this seems to have broken the mold quite a bit.
Diamonds Are Forever - as someone has already stated, this was quite a departure at the time.
License To Kill - unique as a Bond film. (Miami Vice)
Tomorrow Never Dies - again, unique as a Bond film. (90's action flick)
Live and Let Die - has some recycled elements, but given the overall tone you can't deny its a unique Bond film.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Laz, marriage, enough said.
Octopussy - India, clown suit, among other things.
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale (2006)

Unique because they were the first
Dr. No
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
Thunderball

Not that unique, but who cares? They were solid films
GoldenEye
The Living Daylights
The Spy Who Loved Me - you make this list, and not the one below, because I like you!
Moonraker - same as above, but the space thing saves you.

Your lack of uniqueness is hard to overlook
A View To A Kill - Goldfinger, anyone?
Never Say Never Again - Thunderball, anyone?
The World Is Not Enough - You just seem sort of recycled...
Die Another Day - Well, should I point out that you include an homage all the previous films or that you seem Moonraker-esque?
Quantum of Solace - yes, you're unique, but you rely heavily on your predecessor and you reek of Jason Bourne.

[Colossus]

I aree about Man with the Golden Gun being pretty damn unique, the basic premise of Bond squaring off with a guy who matches his gun skills to the top and isn't really a supervillain but more like Bond himself has not been done before or since at least for the entire movie. It works even better since Moore was there who's not much of a brute fighter like Connery/Lazenby before him and Chris Lee is similar too.

[jaguar007]

I would say Casino Royale 67 is probably the most unique of Bond film. Where did those seals come from???

[O.H.M.S.S.]

I aree about Man with the Golden Gun being pretty damn unique, the basic premise of Bond squaring off with a guy who matches his gun skills to the top and isn't really a supervillain but more like Bond himself has not been done before or since at least for the entire movie. It works even better since Moore was there who's not much of a brute fighter like Connery/Lazenby before him and Chris Lee is similar too.

Yes indeed, in that respect Golden Gun is pretty unique. Plus the fact that in Golden Gun, the villain has a fancy gadget while Bond has practically no toys to his disposal.

I would say Casino Royale 67 is probably the most unique of Bond film. Where did those seals come from???

Hehe, indeed. And the only film with several Bonds but without the usual Bond.

[Aris007]

Perhaps DN and FRWL are not so unique considering that there were characters, not important for the plot, such as Sylvia Trench that appear again.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

The thought just occured to me, coudln't we consider LALD, TSWLM, FYEO, LTK and GE unique in terms of music as they have one-time composers?

[Turn]

LTK seemed unique at the time as it took Bond out of his comfort zone and made him a rogue agent. It was the first time Bond made a whole film about his personal vendetta, something each subsequent film included in some way or another.

It was unique in that it featured a recurring character getting seriously hurt for the first time. It was unique in that it was the first film in a long time that Bond wasn't globe-hopping, sticking to two countries.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I aree about Man with the Golden Gun being pretty damn unique, the basic premise of Bond squaring off with a guy who matches his gun skills to the top and isn't really a supervillain but more like Bond himself has not been done before or since at least for the entire movie. It works even better since Moore was there who's not much of a brute fighter like Connery/Lazenby before him and Chris Lee is similar too.

Yes indeed, in that respect Golden Gun is pretty unique. Plus the fact that in Golden Gun, the villain has a fancy gadget while Bond has practically no toys to his disposal.

I would say Casino Royale 67 is probably the most unique of Bond film. Where did those seals come from???

Hehe, indeed. And the only film with several Bonds but without the usual Bond.

Plus the henchman is a midget, it co-stars a relative of Ian Fleming's (Christopher Lee), two school girls beat up a karate school class while Bond watches, Bond makes love to one woman while another is in the room with them albeit stashed in a closet, and Bond grabs the bare butt of an attacker!

[Rufus Ffolkes]

I'm not a huge fan of Golden Gun, but I do miss that sense of the bizarre that the earlier films displayed and I'd welcome its return to the series.

[DaveBond21]

I'd say Dr No and LTK are the most unique of the entire franchise.

However, an honourable mention must go to LALD; the Bond-less PTS, the voodoo element, the fact there is no scene with Q, M's office is nowhere to be seen makes it seem a bit different from the rest.

[captnash2]

TWINE must be unique because it has a central female baddie who bond gets close to but must ultimately execute and a secondary male baddie who is motivated by his love for the woman who is manipulating him.

[Safari Suit]

However, an honourable mention must go to LALD; the Bond-less PTS, the voodoo element, the fact there is no scene with Q, M's office is nowhere to be seen makes it seem a bit different from the rest.

Strictly speaking Bond isn't in the PTS of FRWL or TMWTGG either, though I suppose LALD is unique in that Bond himself isn't even hinted at.

I think TND also doesn't feature M's office? I'm not sure about that one.

[AMC Hornet]

DAF also has no scene in M's office (& LTK featured only Moneypenny's anteroom).

FYEO is also unique in that nothing blew up, burnt down, crashed or sank at the end.

[Guy Haines]

It rather depends upon how you define "unique". If you accept the definition as being "only one of a kind", then the film "Dr No" ceased to be the unique Bond film in 1963 with the release of "From Russia With Love".

On the other hand, if you consider "unique" to be "special" - "different from the others in a way which is worthy of note" - then forum members have already made the case for several "unique" Bond films.

Anyway, thats enough pedantry.

[AMC Hornet]

Live and let Die is unique in that the actor playing Bond does not appear in the PTS (in FRWL Connery plays a SPECTRE goon disguised as 007, and in TMWTGG Moore plays a wax likeness of Bond (which some say was a more convincing performance than what followed).

OHMSS was unique for having an actor in the lead who never appeared again, and for being a real story, rather than just another action episode.

GoldenEye was unique for having a former 00 agent turn villian, and for covering the greatest period of time (9 years).

TWINE was unique for having the femme fatale be the main villain, and the apparent villain turn out to be her henchman.

DAD for Bond being such a disheveled, unshaven wreck for so long.

Casino Royale for Bond undergoing character development. Unfortunately QoS undid that development and did it over, as if it were necessary.