50 replies to this topic

[Captain Tightpants]

The only possible "non-Bond Bond film" that I could see happening would be a re-telling of CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from Felix Leiter's perspective. There's a lot of plot points that depend on the presence of the Americans without any explanation as to how the Americans got to be there, like how the CIA found Le Chiffre and got Leiter into the game so quickly (as MI6 had only established a connection between Le Chiffre and the money lost in the Miami job no more than a week before the game), and how Dominic Greene came to their attetnion. It would provide the opportunity to build on Quantum lore, and while Bond would have to be present within the film at some point, it would offer a very unique opportunity: CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE really show how Bond sees the world; to have a Leiter-centric film, it would be possible to show how the world sees Bond.

[NVT]

Make something like Largo Winch?

[tdalton]

The only possible "non-Bond Bond film" that I could see happening would be a re-telling of CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from Felix Leiter's perspective. There's a lot of plot points that depend on the presence of the Americans without any explanation as to how the Americans got to be there, like how the CIA found Le Chiffre and got Leiter into the game so quickly (as MI6 had only established a connection between Le Chiffre and the money lost in the Miami job no more than a week before the game), and how Dominic Greene came to their attetnion. It would provide the opportunity to build on Quantum lore, and while Bond would have to be present within the film at some point, it would offer a very unique opportunity: CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE really show how Bond sees the world; to have a Leiter-centric film, it would be possible to show how the world sees Bond.

I think that this would be an interesting approach to a film. Both CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE are very centered on Bond, moreso than most of the other films, so it would be interesting to see a "Bond film" that told some of the backstory of the events of those two films from Felix's point of view. He's a seemingly central character at least in terms of the fact that he's present at many of the important events of both films (gives Bond the money to continue after losing, alerts him to Greene's hideout, etc.), so it would be interesting to see just what he was doing behind the scenes while Bond is off pretty much destroying anything and everything that gets in his way over the course of the two films.

[jaguar007]

I'm pretty sure anything from the "Bond Universe" would have to have MGM involved, since they own part of the rights.

[The Richmond Spy]

How about a film describing the 1986-1995 gap in GoldenEye from 006's perspective? Then maybe we'd know what the was actually going on.

[The World Is Not Enough]

They've already made two Bond films without James Bond- Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Daniel Craig is James Bond by name, but not by nature...

[jaguar007]

They've already made two Bond films without James Bond- Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Daniel Craig is James Bond by name, but not by nature...

Sorry, Craig in Casino Royale is far more James Bond than any film Pierce Brosnan starred in. I find it much closer in tone to the early Connery movies than any Bond film in decades.

[double o ego]

Making a film without Bond but from another character's perspective won't work because it's not economically viable. There are so many elemnts throughout the series that could be further explored but the point is, Bond himself is the driving vehicle of these movies so you can forget about Leiter's perspective and whatnot because it just wont happen. It'll be interesting don't get me wrong but why waste time and money, billable hours when all that effort can be put into telling the next Bond adventure.

[darthbond]

It would be interesting to see a "Bond" film without Bond. But what makes it a James Bond film is two-fold. One: the character. Two: a semi-serious story line. Otherwise, call it a spoof or a spin-off.

darthbond

[Von Hammerstein]

Of course you can.
Sauve, sophisticated secret agent with a rough side
Larger than life villain with hulking henchman, secret lair and plasubile if inprobable plan
Beautiful women, locales.
An "M" scene and a "Q" scene
Gunfights, car chases, gadgets, large set piece inside villain's hideout.
Surging bombastic score with lots of guitar and brass.
Villain dies a grisly death, world is saved, hero has beautiful woman fall into his arms as they sail away on a boat.
Add an occasional quip, shake, don't stir, and you have a Bond film.
It's a formula that's been used since the sixties, the only difference is there is only one JAMES BOND.
But it is possible to make a very Bond-like film. If I every win the lottery, I'll produce one.

Edited by Von Hammerstein, 07 August 2010 - 01:06 AM.

[Guy Haines]

They've already made two Bond films without James Bond- Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Daniel Craig is James Bond by name, but not by nature...

Sorry, Craig in Casino Royale is far more James Bond than any film Pierce Brosnan starred in. I find it much closer in tone to the early Connery movies than any Bond film in decades.

I enjoyed all four Pierce Brosnan films, they are much better than many people give them credit for, but Daniel Craig's Bond movies are in my view closer in tone, not only to the classic early Bond films, but also to the Fleming books.

[Guy Haines]

I suppose if you want an example of what a Bond film with Bond as almost a secondary character might have been like, read Ian Fleming's own attempt at such a story, The Spy Who Loved Me. Or rather, Vivienne Michel's story, written with Mr. Fleming's assistance. It wasn't a critical success, the fans were not impressed, Mr. Fleming did not repeat the exercise, and only the title made it to the silver screen.

Frankly, I thought the Moneypenny Diaries a made a better fist of it - at least Moneypenny is an integral part of the Bond canon, so we were in familiar territory, even though the stories were told from the point of view of a character other than Bond. When I first read TSWLM I found the first half or so to be, well, salacious but in the end tedious, and the second to be hundrum compared to the challenges Bond usually faces.

[Ambler]

2) Is it possible to make a quasi-James Bond film without James Bond?

Yes. It's called Quantum of Solace. As the late great Tom Mankiewicz said:

They have to get some humor back in those films and I think they know it. Some critic said – and I agree with him totally – they just have to change the opening lines for him now and just say “My name is Bourne. Jason Bourne.” They just look like The Bourne Identity. There used to be such style. And the wit. And outrageous puns.

[jaguar007]

2) Is it possible to make a quasi-James Bond film without James Bond?

Yes. It's called Quantum of Solace. As the late great Tom Mankiewicz said:

They have to get some humor back in those films and I think they know it. Some critic said – and I agree with him totally – they just have to change the opening lines for him now and just say “My name is Bourne. Jason Bourne.” They just look like The Bourne Identity. There used to be such style. And the wit. And outrageous puns.

I find the editing style of QoS similar to Bourne, but Craig's Bond character is still far removed from Jason Bourne. If people are going to say "QoS is not a Bond movie, it is a Bourne movie", then by those same standards lets call:

LALD not a Bond movie but a blackploitation movie
TMWTGG not a BOnd movie but a Hong Kong Kung Fu movie
MR not a Bond movie but a late 70's sci-fi movie
LTK not a Bond movie but an 80's drug kingpin movie

Bond using current movie trends is not a new idea that started with QoS.

[Ambler]

Bond using current movie trends is not a new idea that started with QoS.

True. Bond being a charmless almost robotic thug is something new though.

Gotta get da yoof market I suppose.

[jaguar007]

Bond using current movie trends is not a new idea that started with QoS.

True. Bond being a charmless almost robotic thug is something new though.

Gotta get da yoof market I suppose.

LEt me guess, you said the same thing before you ever saw a frame of Casino Royale and never changed your tune. I think Craig (especially in CR) showed the most masculine charm of any Bond since early Connery, and there are millions of women out there who agree. Craig's BOnd is hardly a robot, in both movies he clearly thinks for himself and makes his own decisions.

[Guy Haines]

2) Is it possible to make a quasi-James Bond film without James Bond?

Yes. It's called Quantum of Solace. As the late great Tom Mankiewicz said:

They have to get some humor back in those films and I think they know it. Some critic said – and I agree with him totally – they just have to change the opening lines for him now and just say “My name is Bourne. Jason Bourne.” They just look like The Bourne Identity. There used to be such style. And the wit. And outrageous puns.

It depends what you want by way of humour. I have no problem with dry wit, or even outrageous puns, and the late Tom Mankiewicz wrote some of the best. I did, however, dislike the trend from the late 70s to the mid 80s towards juvenile sight (and musical) gags, which I still find uncomfortable to watch and listen to even now. It's not about taking Bond too seriously. It is that when it comes to humour Bond is a character you should laugh with, not at.

[Ambler]

LEt me guess, you said the same thing before you ever saw a frame of Casino Royale and never changed your tune.

Actually, I was a big supporter of Craig's casting. Unfortunately his two outings have convinced me I was mistaken.

It depends what you want by way of humour. I have no problem with dry wit, or even outrageous puns, and the late Tom Mankiewicz wrote some of the best. I did, however, dislike the trend from the late 70s to the mid 80s towards juvenile sight (and musical) gags, which I still find uncomfortable to watch and listen to even now. It's not about taking Bond too seriously. It is that when it comes to humour Bond is a character you should laugh with, not at.

Agree with you there.

[The Shark]

I'm with Ambler here. Craig's got plenty of gravitas, charm, wit, humility and screen presence (a cross between Burton and Albert Finney in SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING) - Micoli choose just not to capitalise on it.

They'd rather have him run around like some gormless albino ape on steroids, killing everything in site.

[Daddy Bond]

I'm with Ambler here. Craig's got plenty of gravitas, charm, wit, humility and screen presence (a cross between Burton and Albert Finney in SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING) - Micoli choose just not to capitalise on it.

They'd rather have him run around like some gormless albino ape on steroids, killing everything in site.

Well, I still think Craig is fantastic as Bond and QOS is one of my all time favorite BOND films.

And no, you can't make a Bond film without Bond.

[sharpshooter]

The first half of Fleming's FRWL does not feature Bond at all. The assassin and beautiful lure were hired, the plan was discussed and put into action. Reading is a different experience opposed to viewing, but I didn't find myself dozing off. Because it was so engaging, I didn't really find myself longing for Bond to show up.

We weren't totally devoid of Bond, though. He was the main topic of discussion, and it's interesting to see what others think of him, and the effort they're willing to go to in order to humiliate him. I don't think they could pull it off for a two hour feature film - nor do I think they should, but aspects of that idea could be retained.