61 replies to this topic

[BryanHerbert]

What if George Lazenby did a second bond movie?!?! Do you think it would of been good or bad, should he have done another one? I found him suitable for OHMSS. He played the character rather well. What do you think?

[volante]

What if George Lazenby did a second bond movie?!?! Do you think it would of been good or bad, should he have done another one? I found him suitable for OHMSS. He played the character rather well. What do you think?

OHMSS was a cracking story, and converted well to the big screen. It was muted that OHMSS should end, with Bond and Tracey driving away from the wedding.
DAF with Lazenby would have the PTS as the murder of Tracey, on the road.
I feel this would have given a much grittier perfomance of Bond hunting down Blofeld.
As an aside; it is actually Blofeld's hench woman Irma Bunt that pulls the trigger and kills Tracey.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

I think it is one of the big missed opportunities of the franchise. Lazenby was perfect for the role and would have been the best of the bunch if he had done more films.

[Aris007]

I think that if Lazenby did a second film it would be a total disaster. OHMSS went good, because the story was probably the best in the franchise. Laz was good in the role, but had weaknesses, which were not that obvious in the screen because of the strong plot, the cast and the locations. I doubt if his second film would be as powerfull as the first one so his weaknesses would look clearly in the film. It's better now.

[Dell Deaton]

I think that if Lazenby did a second film it would be a total disaster. OHMSS went good, because the story was probably the best in the franchise. Laz was good in the role, but had weeknesses, which were not that obvious in the screen because of the strong plot, the cast and the locations. I doubt if his second film would be as powerfull as the first one so his weknesess would look clearly in the film. It's better now.

Agreed.

"Missed opportunities" invariably seem to generage mistique questions, eg, "How would things have gone if President Kennedy hadn't met with his end in Dallas?" Who can ever compete with that? Rather, who can ever refute those who insist it would have most certainly been grand?

I supposed the discussions here that best answer the question for me are the "seconds" that actually did take place. How did From Russia with Love show Dr. No to have been? Was Tomorrow Never Dies as good or better than GoldenEye? If Casino Royale parallels On Her Majesty's Secret Service as far as this Thread is concerned, what then for Quantum of Solace?

As the question has been asked here, I think a Lazenby successor to On Her Majesty's Secret Service would have been a catastrophe. Whatever improvement we would have seen in Lazenby as an actor, it would have been more than offset by his attitude and how that would have had to have been indulged for Round #2: He would have been totally in the driver's seat.

Beyond that, I think in the end that a lot folks on the inside would have seen On Her Majesty's Secret Service as a huge success. And that would have resulted in carelessness, inattentiveness.

[Bucky]

may be easier to assume what the story would have been like if they had decided to do the blofeld trilogy in the correct order

[Dell Deaton]

may be easier to assume what the story would have been like if they had decided to do the blofeld trilogy in the correct order

You think?

First we had Thunderball, which was proper sequence. Then, yeah, You Only Live Twice, but arguably more an extension of Thunderball than an adaptation of the Ian Fleming original. On Her Majesty's Secret Service next.

Several films later, Blofeld gets tossed down the smokestack in For Your Eyes Only.

Sequence preserved.

[Lachesis]

OHMSS is unquestionably my favourite Bond film and I really like Lazenby's Bond but that said I dont think he could make the nescessary contribution to suport a film that wasn't firing on all thrusters.

Given the financial success of OHMSS, in relative terms, a lightweight, safe, Bond had to come next and in that scenario I think it would have been a disaster for Lazenby and the series. If OHMSS had been given a better reception another gritty film to contrast with his delivery might have worked but without the strength of story that OHMSS had again I still struggle to see it being a success (and tbh scripts as strong as OHMSS come once a blue moon..we have FRWL and.... thats it imo)....

perhaps even more than Lazenby I would have liked to see Peter Hunt direct another one. Like Terrence Young and Martin Cambell I think he was someone who got Bond 'the character' and could translate that to the screen significantly amplifying what the actor themselves brought to the table.

[LTK_(1989)]

If Lazenby would have gone on to do Diamonds Are Forever Hunt would have continued to direct it, opening the film with the murder of Tracy as what was originally planned. This would have also allowed for Savalas and Steppat continue on as Blofeld and Bunt, as they would have been in the opening scenes, and made Diamonds Are Forever the film about Bond's personal revenge against Blofeld and Bunt for Tracy that we never got.

[Syndicate]

This should also be talked about and answerd with members's views. What IF Sean Connery had done OHMSS, how would it have went the style of the movie and what would be in there and what not and so on.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

If Lazenby would have gone on to do Diamonds Are Forever Hunt would have continued to direct it, opening the film with the murder of Tracy as what was originally planned. This would have also allowed for Savalas and Steppat continue on as Blofeld and Bunt, as they would have been in the opening scenes, and made Diamonds Are Forever the film about Bond's personal revenge against Blofeld and Bunt for Tracy that we never got.

Good idea, but unfortunately Ilse Steppat passed away shirtly after OHMSS.

[BryanHerbert]

I wish Connery didn't leave the way he did, doing NSNA an unofficial bond movie, plus it was crappy. Sean Connery should of done OHMSS and finished with Diamonds are Forever or even do one more, but Lazenby was perfect for the role.

Edited by BryanHerbert, 05 April 2010 - 06:30 PM.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Good idea, but unfortunately Ilse Steppat passed away shortly after OHMSS.

Had Lazenby stayed on, I think they would've been able to find a way to shoot a revenge sequence close enough to the wrap date on OHMSS to include Steppat before her death.

[Trident]

Firstly, I think an end of OHMSS with Tracy surviving would have been a huge mistake. The entire balance of the book, as well as the film, depends on this final devastating blow to Bond and the audience. Without it, OHMSS would have been just another Bond adventure. Perhaps overall above par, but in the end fairly ordinary and without anything special about it. Only Tracy's death and Bond's complete helplessness, a victim of his own fate, introduces that dimension of tragedy into Bond's world that makes this story truly great.

An ending with Bond and Tracy driving off into their honeymoon would render the whole affair obsolete. If one really wants to change this ending, I see only one way to preserve at least some of the potential: Tracy and Bond driving off into the sundown with their 'We Have All The Time' love theme, then Blofeld and Bunt shown picking up pursuit, Bunt cocking the MP, music changing to a sinister version of the OHMSS theme and the screen fading out, audience in doubt about what happens next. The following film would not pick up the scene, but either Tracy's funeral (too obvious for my liking) or (ideally) several weeks after, with Bond already well down the drain.

Which brings us to the question of where to go with Lazenby-Bond after OHMSS. Here I think there can be little doubt a closer connection to the previous film (closer than DAF suggests, at any rate) would have been inevitable. Problem is, YOLT's title and setting was used already and Fleming's oeuvre doesn't offer much alternative in this respect. So the general direction would only leave two options, either show Bond shattered and down, or out for revenge, hunting his prey. Now, with an actor such as Lazenby, very effective and convincing particularly in the action scenes, I suspect EON (and Lazenby, for that matter) would have gone the action road, not the more introspective YOLT way.

What we may have seen with Lazenby would most likely have been closer to DAF (perhaps in a more serious, better plotted way than SC's version) than to the novel of YOLT. Even if EON had gone the extra mile to extract the basic elements of YOLT and use them for their next film, perhaps with a different setting, I highly doubt we'd ever have seen a faithful depiction of Fleming's storyarch. A DAF with Lazenby might in the end not have been so much different from the film with Sean Connery. Perhaps some more expensive ideas (Hoover Dam) might have seen their realisation, as Lazenby didn't call up Connery's fee. But Lazenby's second film could well have been DAF just with another actor in the lead.

That said, I must say I have my doubts about Lazenby depicting Bond so far gone and wrecked by Tracy's death as YOLT (novel now) would call for. So perhaps it's for the best things went the way they did.

[Guy Haines]

Another one of the great "what ifs?" If George Lazenby had carried on, the film makers would have been presented with a problem. The Bond -v- Blofeld story would have had to be wrapped up somehow, just as the final scene of CR left loose ends for QoS to tie up.

But OHMSS didn't get the same massive critical and commercial success that CR 2006 received (although I recall seeing a list of the Bond films showing that, allowing for inflation, etc., it did better overall commercially than many of the Bonds that followed it). I think the film makers would have been under pressure to produce a commercial success, with something of a re-think of the direction Bond was going in OHMSS - however much many die hard Bond fans liked the OHMSS approach.

I can't see how the revenge angle, which one would have expected Lazenby's second movie to follow, could have survived the pressure from the studio to produce a blockbuster Bond to "bounce back" from the supposedly underwhelming commercial performance of OHMSS. I think the producers could have either dealt with it in the pre title credits, before moving on to the main story (which, unlike the DAF we know, might not have even involved Blofeld). Or they might have just ignored it altogether, and left it for a future Bond movie to deal with.

After OHMSS, the film makers were under pressure to deliver - hence some of the plot ideas floating around, such as hiring Gert Frobe to return as Goldfinger's smarter twin brother, in a deliberate attempt to remind audiences of the heady days of "Bondmania". So, Lazenby could have taken on Blofeld again in a grudge match, but he could equally have faced a different villain in a different style Bond film altogether.

In the film we know followed OHMSS in the real world, the revenge angle didn't matter much, because the inference was that the "real" Bond was back (Connery), and it was business as usual against Blofeld after the events of YOLT. Yes, the pre title credits had Bond on an air-mile-a-minute globe trotting quest for Blofeld, but the revenge side wasn't pressed much, except for the line "Welcome to Hell, Blofeld". For the rest of DAF, it was almost as if two adversaries who respected each other were in a game of oneupmanship. Hardly a quest for revenge.

It was almost as if OHMSS had never happened. Call me a cynic, but perhaps that is what was intended.

[Revelator]

It was almost as if OHMSS had never happened. Call me a cynic, but perhaps that is what was intended.

Oh definitely. The entire film is a repudiation of OHMSS. It gives only a perfunctory nod to its predecessor in the teaser sequence, which itself can be understood without any knowledge of OHMSS--just pretend that Bond has been busy hunting down Blofeld since the end of YOLT and is getting peeved about not finding him. Once that's out of the way, Bond is back to his old self, saying he's had a good holiday and so forth. And even when Blofeld reappears, Bond displays little anger or antagonism--you'd think he'd be a little more upset about his wife's de facto murderer having risen from the grave. But there's no further suggestion of a vendetta. And Blofeld's own metamorphosis into a drag-wearing, campy non-threat parallels the tonal devolution of the film. If the message of OHMSS was that Bond's life was ultimately serious because death packed a permanent sting, in DAF death is rendered almost meaningless, and the film lurches toward becoming cartoony self-parody. The treatment of women is also a repudiation of OHMSS--Tiffany Case starts out as somewhat independent and tough, only to degenerate into a incompetent bimbo (the second in the picture, after Ms. O'Toole). Whereas Tracy was misleading Blofeld and brandishing broken bottles at thugs, Tiffany can't even fire a machine gun without falling off an oil tanker. And her final dialogue with Bond, where it seems like she's about to propose marriage but actually wants to know how they'll get the diamonds back, is a final display of how the film stands in relation to OHMSS with its denial of marriage or of anything that smacks of feeling: forget marriage, let's concentrate on money--that's what Tiffany and the film are saying.

As for how Lazenby would have fared with a second film...
He would have done well if Hunt was back on board and had similarly free rein from the producers. It's become increasingly clear that OHMSS was a financial and critical success at the time. But because it starred a one-off Bond, it was in everyone's interest to forget the picture existed and paint it as a freak that deserved to be forgotten, especially when Connery returned and later when Moore later took and settled in. Lazenby's departure embarrassed the producers, and, rather than take another risk, they went with what was most familiar. Had Lazenby decided to be a good boy and stay on in the role, Hunt might have had the backing--prompted by OHMSS's success--to redirect Lazenby. If this had happened, I don't think Hunt would have decided to open the next picture with Tracy's death. I think that idea was something he had considered at the beginning of production of OHMSS and would have eventually discarded even if Lazenby had stayed on. In any case, I still don't understand why the producers thought DAF was the novel to adapt next--I would have gone for MR or TMWTGG. Elements from YOLT could be combined with either or these to produce a suitable story. But counter-history is an ultimately futile activity. Even the smallest change in chance can have enormous repercussions--in the big picture everything is connected with everything else. You can't change one thing without ultimately changing everything, sometimes in ways that are small, others quite large.

Edited by Revelator, 05 April 2010 - 11:00 PM.

[JimmyBond]

Sean Connery should of done OHMSS

Perhaps, but (and this has been brought up here before) there's no way of knowing if we would have gotten the same film if Connery had remained. Certainly everyone put on their A game because Lazenby was an unknown commodity. If Connery had stayed on I'm sure the feeling would be "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Aris007]

Sean Connery should of done OHMSS

Perhaps, but (and this has been brought up here before) there's no way of knowing if we would have gotten the same film if Connery had remained. Certainly everyone put on their A game because Lazenby was an unknown commodity. If Connery had stayed on I'm sure the feeling would be "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I strongly believe that if Connery starred in OHMSS we'd have another typial Bond film, with Connery playing just for the money. Hunt would have focused on how to show Connery's Bond on screen and wouldn't work on the supporting cast, the loations etc. On the other hand, starring Lazenby was a blessing cause the director minded other minor things that were not that important in Connery's era. That's how we had a marvellous film.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

I think that with Connery OHMSS would not have been the best film in the franchise (which I think it is). Simply because Connery brought a different Bond (with different quallities) to the screen then Lazenby.

[Judo chop]

What if George Lazenby actually DID do a second Bond film and it was only discovered just this year!

Fascinating hypothetical. One which would have some devastating effects, I think.

Consider for a moment... what then would become of Q’s line in DAD, when he refers to the watch he gives Bond as his 20th? It'd actually be his 21st! Suddenly, a portion of DAD wouldn’t make any sense at all!!!

No thanks. It's too upsetting to me to even hypothesize such a thing. Next thread.

[Trident]

Although OHMSS is one of my favourites in the series, contender to first place for some time, there is one scene that I personally felt would have profited hugely from Connery, the end when Bond holds the dead Tracy. I feel Lazenby did his best to do it convincingly, but this is the moment when I doubt he would be have been perfect for the mourning Bond. Impossible to say for sure, of course. Lazenby would have had a bit time to improve on his acting, but this is where I felt really betrayed, when Connery didn't even for a single blink in DAF show what Bond has lost beforehand. Perhaps one of the biggest let-downs in the series for me.

[David Schofield]

How to film Lazenby's DAF.

PTS - essentially, an elongated version of the DAF we have with Laz beating the crap out of various folk to find Blofeld. He is at the time fighting mad. Eventually, he comes across Gumbold - the OHMSS lawyer - who is coerced after a major chase - a cross a rooftop? - to conceed wher Blofeld is.

Main Title.

Bond persuades M to allow him to go after Blofeld based on Gumbold's info. Grudgingly, M agrees but says this has to be the end of the search. Using MI6 agents, Bond launches an attack of the location given by Gumbold. The private residence of a man and woman in stormed. In the dark, Bond believes he has killed Blofeld and Bunt. The scene is then flooded with light. Bond has killed a man and woman but they are revealed not be be either of his enemies. He is distraught.

Later - the summer now - Bond is in the Rose Garden in Regent's Park. He is a broken man, as Fleming presents him at the start of YOLT. He is summoned by M, thinking he's in for the job. But M offers Bond a job tracking diamonds being smuggled into the USA. Bond believes he is wasted on "this minor smuggling matter". M explains the CIA will provide MI6 with top secret files if Bond succeeds.

Essentially, then the plot follows the filmed DAF, though Wint and Kidd are Fleming's and the space plot is deleted. Bond gets to Vegas via New York, allowing a proper into of Felix Leiter and allowing Leiter to play the part of Tanaka in Fleming's YOLT. Jack Spang is retained as the villain and eventually Bond ends up at the Tropicana/White House. He assaults Spang's personal quarters in the hotel as Connery did - and their finds Blofeld and Bunt, behind the Spang/White facade.

The concept of Blofeld controlling a Vegas casino, bleading crazy gamblers, even offering a suicide facility in the hotel for losers is played up to take place of the Castle of Death.

Lazenby/Bond kills Blofeld and attacks Bunt as per YOLT and escapes the hotel rook via balloon. Maybe he falls from the balloon as the building escapes....

James Bond will return in Ian Fleming's The Man With the Golden Gun.

Simples.

[Trident]

How to film Lazenby's DAF.

PTS - essentially, an elongated version of the DAF we have with Laz beating the crap out of various folk to find Blofeld. He is at the time fighting mad. Eventually, he comes across Gumbold - the OHMSS lawyer - who is coerced after a major chase - a cross a rooftop? - to conceed wher Blofeld is.

Main Title.

Bond persuades M to allow him to go after Blofeld based on Gumbold's info. Grudgingly, M agrees but says this has to be the end of the search. Using MI6 agents, Bond launches an attack of the location given by Gumbold. The private residence of a man and woman in stormed. In the dark, Bond believes he has killed Blofeld and Bunt. The scene is then flooded with light. Bond has killed a man and woman but they are revealed not be be either of his enemies. He is distraught.

Later - the summer now - Bond is in the Rose Garden in Regent's Park. He is a broken man, as Fleming presents him at the start of YOLT. He is summoned by M, thinking he's in for the job. But M offers Bond a job tracking diamonds being smuggled into the USA. Bond believes he is wasted on "this minor smuggling matter". M explains the CIA will provide MI6 with top secret files if Bond succeeds.

Essentially, then the plot follows the filmed DAF, though Wint and Kidd are Fleming's and the space plot is deleted. Bond gets to Vegas via New York, allowing a proper into of Felix Leiter and allowing Leiter to play the part of Tanaka in Fleming's YOLT. Jack Spang is retained as the villain and eventually Bond ends up at the Tropicana/White House. He assaults Spang's personal quarters in the hotel as Connery did - and their finds Blofeld and Bunt, behind the Spang/White facade.

The concept of Blofeld controlling a Vegas casino, bleading crazy gamblers, even offering a suicide facility in the hotel for losers is played up to take place of the Castle of Death.

Lazenby/Bond kills Blofeld and attacks Bunt as per YOLT and escapes the hotel rook via balloon. Maybe he falls from the balloon as the building escapes....

James Bond will return in Ian Fleming's The Man With the Golden Gun.

Simples.

Pretty good concept.

Only downside would be the lack of my favourite element, that Japanese Garden of Death. And we can hardly have Bond brainwashed by the Nevada Secret Service to kill M...

[David Schofield]

And we can hardly have Bond brainwashed by the Nevada Secret Service to kill M...

Maybe his balloon could have landed in the garden of the Russian consulate. Did the Soviet Union have a consulate in Las Vegas in the early 70s....

Besides, this was Nixon's USA. Nixon's CIA. James Bond; the Manchurian Candidate?

[Trident]

And we can hardly have Bond brainwashed by the Nevada Secret Service to kill M...

Maybe his balloon could have landed in the garden of the Russian consulate. Did the Soviet Union have a consulate in Las Vegas in the early 70s....

They should have had. Any good chessplayer could have foreseen Britain's best SIS agent would sooner or later land there. With a bad case of punch-induced Alzheimers and half a mind to butcher his boss if you just nudge him a bit...

[Guy Haines]

And we can hardly have Bond brainwashed by the Nevada Secret Service to kill M...

Maybe his balloon could have landed in the garden of the Russian consulate. Did the Soviet Union have a consulate in Las Vegas in the early 70s....

They should have had. Any good chessplayer could have foreseen Britain's best SIS agent would sooner or later land there. With a bad case of punch-induced Alzheimers and half a mind to butcher his boss if you just nudge him a bit...

Interesting take on DAF, this. Not sure where the diamond smuggling angle fits in, but then the MAGIC 44 cypher machine plot in the YOLT novel was merely a sprat to catch a mackerel.

As for how 007 ends up in Russian hands, lets take the final action out of Vegas altogether and head for the West Coast. I'm not suggesting an oil rig, but lets assume Blofeld and Bunt, their cover blown, try to make their escape by ocean going boat. They think they've killed Bond in Vegas, but he's very much alive and leads an assault on this ship. Here the final confrontation takes place, Blofeld and Bunt meet their end, but as the boat (inevitably) explodes and sinks, 007 apparently goes down with the ship. Cue 'phone call from Leiter to M, tearful Moneypenny scene etc.

And then we see, floating in the water, a life raft and a body in it, unconscious.
And, bearing down on it, another ship. To borrow a line from the film "Ice Station Zebra" - "the innocent, and inevitable, Russian trawler!"

[DamnCoffee]

Good idea, but unfortunately Ilse Steppat passed away shortly after OHMSS.

Had Lazenby stayed on, I think they would've been able to find a way to shoot a revenge sequence close enough to the wrap date on OHMSS to include Steppat before her death.

Well if they were going to shoot Diamonds as a revenge story, I don't think that they would film a quick revenge sequence after Service, considering they didn't know Steppat was going to die.

It wouldn't of made any difference, her death was unexpected.

[Trident]

I think the main problem of DAF was that they just didn't have that good a story. The script had some nice elements, but the overall experience was underwhelming for me, the film not a worthy successor to OHMSS. And I doubt that would have been so much different with Lazenby in the lead. Maybe a closer tie to the last one, but that may just have been it. And frankly, a mostly unchanged DAF would not have been better with Lazenby.

[Automan]

I think the main problem of DAF was that they just didn't have that good a story. The script had some nice elements, but the overall experience was underwhelming for me, the film not a worthy successor to OHMSS. And I doubt that would have been so much different with Lazenby in the lead. Maybe a closer tie to the last one, but that may just have been it. And frankly, a mostly unchanged DAF would not have been better with Lazenby.

DAF was a real turkey. As I watch the films again, the potential of OHMSS was thrown away to facilitate Connery's return

[elizabeth]

IMHO, while I thought Connery was terrific in DAF, part of me thinks that Laz should have been Bond for that one.