902 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

If Sam Mendes comes on board maybe there is a slight chance that he will bring Thomas Newman with him as composer. Now that would be an interesting score.

Although I must admit: after CR and QOS I think David Arnold absolutely gets Bond and knows what he is doing.

[MattofSteel]

But more importantly his lighter, often transitional tracks that are variations on the theme really bring the character to the fore. I think many other composers would struggle to use the theme so lightly without either losing it in another melody, or over using it. Arnold's efforts usually nest perfectly within the ambience of the scene.

...Eg. 'Inside Man', 'The Dead Don't Care About Vengeance' and ' Talamone' from QoS.

Most delightfully surprising of all was the last one-minute of 'Pursuit At Port Au Prince', which transitions from the bombastic action to a light transition - simple tone& keystroke alike 'Drifting Away' from the album Reverence by Faithless - eventually incorporating the theme. Felt fresh, but still Bond.

Plus 'Camille's Story' was up there with the OST numbers by Gustavo Santaolalla on films such as Babel. Santaolalla's ' Iguazu', originally used in Michael Mann's film The Insider, is IMO among the very best pieces of music ever committed to film and i think Arnold was obviously inspired by it with 'Camille's Story', doing a great job.

'Somebody Wants to Kill You' was another nice surprise, owing a lot the the band 'Yello' (i'd love to hear them do a dedicated score for a movie one day).

I think Arnold's great work on the above mentioned tracks makes him the best man for B23.

If, for some reason Eon did consider another composer, then i guess the obvious mainstream name would be Hans Zimmer, solely for his score for The Dark Knight - phenomenal in it's brave, stunning use of disturbing, uncomfortable soundscapes - particularly in the Hong Kong scene. Though i imagine this David Lynchian approach was down to Chris Nolan.

Also his simple, but highly effective score for Sherlock Holmes (the best aspect - along with Downey - of this surprisingly good movie).
In truth this whole score was made of variations on 2 tracks pre-existing tracks: 'Farewell To Cheyenne' from Once Upon A Time In The West, & 'March of the Beggars' from A Fistful Of Dynamite, both by the greatest film composer of all time, Ennio Morrecone -- if you're gonna steal, then steal from the best, hey...



BTW, i don't suppose there's any chance of Morricone doing a Bond score...?! ....Dream on!

What a great way to put it.

I'm outwardly a massive Arnold fan, I think he takes a lot of heat that's grossly unfounded in fan circles, he's far better at writing Bond scores than people give him credit for, and it will be a sad day when a Bond pops up he hasn't scored.

I'll fight tooth and nail for his tenure until then.

I can see where some of the criticisms come from - and I'll give it to you, he's far from perfect - but I just have this feeling that anyone else would be SO far removed musically from what we know and love that it would be off putting. See: Serra, Kamen, etc.

Let's face it. Any tenured composer of Bond HAS to appreciate and emulate John Barry in some way. And I don't think anyone does it particularly better than Arnold.

Giacchino's Incredibles might mimic the style, for example (and certainly works great in that film), but he doesn't quite nail the spirit.

[jaguar007]

Hasn't Arnold already been confirmed for Bond 23.

[Dr.Fell]

I think Arnold's great work on the above mentioned tracks makes him the best man for B23.

I can't share the same sentiments. I think he has toned down the more obnoxious aspects of his Brosnan era scorns, the techno stuff and overblowing the Bond theme but he still a pretty un-remarkable composer. Nothing every stuck to me in Quantum's music, it was strictly safe and predictable scoring of today.

If, for some reason Eon did consider another composer, then i guess the obvious mainstream name would be Hans Zimmer, solely for his score for The Dark Knight - phenomenal in it's brave, stunning use of disturbing, uncomfortable soundscapes - particularly in the Hong Kong scene. Though i imagine this David Lynchian approach was down to Chris Nolan.

I really think Hans Zimmers Batman scores are all dull and reptitive. The Joker theme was interesting but that's all I can say about it. Now everyone is starting to imitate them and they are even worse.

[Odd Jobbies]

I think Arnold's great work on the above mentioned tracks makes him the best man for B23.

I can't share the same sentiments. I think he has toned down the more obnoxious aspects of his Brosnan era scorns, the techno stuff and overblowing the Bond theme but he still a pretty un-remarkable composer. Nothing every stuck to me in Quantum's music, it was strictly safe and predictable scoring of today.

If, for some reason Eon did consider another composer, then i guess the obvious mainstream name would be Hans Zimmer, solely for his score for The Dark Knight - phenomenal in it's brave, stunning use of disturbing, uncomfortable soundscapes - particularly in the Hong Kong scene. Though i imagine this David Lynchian approach was down to Chris Nolan.

I really think Hans Zimmers Batman scores are all dull and reptitive. The Joker theme was interesting but that's all I can say about it. Now everyone is starting to imitate them and they are even worse.

LOL, Herr Fell, if you had agreed with something i said, i'd have had to pick my self up after collapsing in shock and really would have had to question the logic of the post you'd liked

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 11 January 2010 - 11:20 PM.

[The Shark]

I can't say I love any current composers but they are better ones out there. Howard Shore for instance.

I think Arnold's still the right man. QoS was the best Bond OST in years, IMO.

That's not particularly hard, considering how dreadful every OST has been since Serra's great soundtrack for Goldeneye.

He obviously knows how to do the ballsey set-piece numbers in a gritty, bombastic way that i think is crucial to Craig's no nonsense macho approach to the action

He knows how to do a generic, tuneless, aharmonic, poorly composed mess of an action cue. But nothing as well written as Barry's thundering action cues. Craig Bond needs something like Barry's Château Fight from TB or Bond Averts World War 3 from YOLT. Gritty and engaging, no electronics. Timpani, snare drums, gongs and bass drums can perform that role far better than any synth pad.

But more importantly his lighter, often transitional tracks that are variations on the theme really bring the character to the fore. I think many other composers would struggle to use the theme so lightly without either losing it in another melody, or over using it. Arnold's efforts usually nest perfectly within the ambience of the scene.

...Eg. 'Inside Man', 'The Dead Don't Care About Vengeance' and ' Talamone' from QoS.

These are the only things that Arnold has going for him in my opinion, and that's still far from enough. Transitional cues are Arnold's strength, but doesn't have other cards up his sleeve.

Most delightfully surprising of all was the last one-minute of 'Pursuit At Port Au Prince', which transitions from the bombastic action to a light transition - simple tone& keystroke alike 'Drifting Away' from the album Reverence by Faithless - eventually incorporating the theme. Felt fresh, but still Bond.

It's good, but still a needle in a haystack compared to everything else.

Plus 'Camille's Story' was up there with the OST numbers by Gustavo Santaolalla on films such as Babel.

That's all it is in my opinion, a rather boring Babel-pastiche, with trite new-age flamenco guitar.

'Somebody Wants to Kill You' was another nice surprise, owing a lot the the band 'Yello' (i'd love to hear them do a dedicated score for a movie one day).

I think Arnold's great work on the above mentioned tracks makes him the best man for B23.

There's still others out there as far as I'm concerned.

If, for some reason Eon did consider another composer, then i guess the obvious mainstream name would be Hans Zimmer, solely for his score for The Dark Knight - phenomenal in it's brave, stunning use of disturbing, uncomfortable soundscapes - particularly in the Hong Kong scene. Though i imagine this David Lynchian approach was down to Chris Nolan.

Hans Zimmer is a still a rather weak composer. Over reliant on his posse of orchestrators, lazy, with his soundtracks remaining monotonous.

Bond doesn't need soundscapes, he needs orchestral balls.

Let's face it. Any tenured composer of Bond HAS to appreciate and emulate John Barry in some way. And I don't think anyone does it particularly better than Arnold.

I think he pastiches Barry poorly, very much so. He understands the superficial elements and clichés, but doesn't understand the reasoning or thought processes behind any of it.

Give me Hamlisch's TSWLM, Martin's LALD, or Serra's GE over all of Arnold's soundtracks any day of the week.

None of them felt the need to emulate or hopelessly "update" Barry's sound, they brought their own sound to Bond, and confidently. They were also better trained, and a had a fuller musical education than Arnold. One of the most important factors.

[MattofSteel]

I guess we agree to disagree, Shark. I feel like I've had this argument a thousand times .

It's my own inferiority, for being so afraid that anything non-Arnold would be utterly unrecognizeable as Bond score - so much so, I don't even want to think about the risk.

[Dekard77]

If so much money was spent on QOS where the heck is the addition footage or the directors cut of the movie ????
If DC also supposedly claimed he didn't like the response I guess the next film will be more of SPWL??
I prefer a new composer even though DA did a fine job with last two installments. It doesn't hurt to have someone new. Craig Armstrong or Tyler Bates?

[SecretAgentFan]

If so much money was spent on QOS where the heck is the addition footage or the directors cut of the movie ????
If DC also supposedly claimed he didn't like the response I guess the next film will be more of SPWL??
I prefer a new composer even though DA did a fine job with last two installments. It doesn't hurt to have someone new. Craig Armstrong or Tyler Bates?

a) I guess the cut in theaters was the director´s cut. Forster never complained in the press about having to compromise, did he? And deleted scenes most probably will be on the Special Edition DVD. Of course, just the chosen ones by EON - as it always and rightfully so.

SPWL? TSWLM you mean? Maybe Bond 23 will be lighter, I would like that, but right now only EON knows.

c) Doesn´t hurt to have someone new, of course. But Tyler Bates? Uh, I don´t think that´s a good choice, based on his previous scores. Craig Armstrong? Wouldn´t like that either, although I prefer his work to Bates´.

[Germanlady]

It was always my impression, that Forster was the one, who mainly wanted that short film like a bullit and he always said, the prods promised to give him pretty much a free hand and I believe that. I blame the cut on him - 100%. M. Wilson ,later said, he wasn´t happy with the cut...

[SecretAgentFan]

Did Wilson really say that? Where?

[Germanlady]

Did Wilson really say that? Where?

My fault that I didn´t prepare a source for this and also, that I cannot come up with one at all. I have seen and read so many vids and reports, that I can´t remember, where it was. Just that he wasn´t happy with it. Its ok, if no source makes this an unreliable statement.

Edited by Germanlady, 12 January 2010 - 02:10 PM.

[Dekard77]

If so much money was spent on QOS where the heck is the addition footage or the directors cut of the movie ????
If DC also supposedly claimed he didn't like the response I guess the next film will be more of SPWL??
I prefer a new composer even though DA did a fine job with last two installments. It doesn't hurt to have someone new. Craig Armstrong or Tyler Bates?

a) I guess the cut in theaters was the director´s cut. Forster never complained in the press about having to compromise, did he? And deleted scenes most probably will be on the Special Edition DVD. Of course, just the chosen ones by EON - as it always and rightfully so.

SPWL? TSWLM you mean? Maybe Bond 23 will be lighter, I would like that, but right now only EON knows.

c) Doesn´t hurt to have someone new, of course. But Tyler Bates? Uh, I don´t think that´s a good choice, based on his previous scores. Craig Armstrong? Wouldn´t like that either, although I prefer his work to Bates´.

Sorry I meant to say TSWLM.
Thanks for answering my post. Appreciate it.

[blueman]

It was always my impression, that Forster was the one, who mainly wanted that short film like a bullit and he always said, the prods promised to give him pretty much a free hand and I believe that. I blame the cut on him - 100%. M. Wilson ,later said, he wasn´t happy with the cut...

I recall that comment by him, but thought he was more referring to the editing in the action scenes (like most everyone else, the big wimp ).

Just never understood how bringing Bond up to date with current filmmaking practices - when he used to lead the friggin' pack! - is a bad thing. Slavishness to itself has brought Bond to its knees more than once, might make fanboys happy to see lather-rinse-repeat endlessly but IMO that's what kills film series, eventually general audiences tire of it all and the next such release ends up direct-to-DVD. Hence the very wise (and IMHO long overdue) decision to reboot. Bond, among other things, means action, and action nowadays is fast and furious and hopefully within a decent enough overall film. QOS was that IMO and at the box office, here's to Mendes/Morgan making another such hit.

[Peckinpah1976]

Just because you allegedly can do a critically acclaimed indie-drama that Pauline Kael loved doesn't mean that you can make a credible action-adventure spy flick.

And just because you can direct character-driven drama doesn't mean you can't also do action well - to an accomplished director (which despite what you might think, Mendes is) staging action is no different to doing dialogue or suspense sequences; it's all a part of what they do. I really don't understand why people keep making an issue out of this; directing is directing at then of the day.

[Santa]

Just because you allegedly can do a critically acclaimed indie-drama that Pauline Kael loved doesn't mean that you can make a credible action-adventure spy flick.

Doesn't mean you can't either. I'm getting a feeling of "the antichrist has entered the tent" deja vu.

[Judo chop]

Just because you allegedly can do a critically acclaimed indie-drama that Pauline Kael loved doesn't mean that you can make a credible action-adventure spy flick.

Doesn't mean you can't either. I'm getting a feeling of "the antichrist has entered the tent" deja vu.

I never thought of the Anti-Christ as the camping type either.

[The Shark]

Saw AWAY WE GO last night. It's the third Sam Mendes film I've seen, though I had to go back and look at the IMDB to see what the other two were: JARHEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY. Those two were decent films, but AWAY WE GO was awash in its own sanctimonious, hippy bull[censored].

I'm suddenly at a loss to understand exactly what EON sees in this guy. Just because you allegedly can do a critically acclaimed indie-drama that Pauline Kael loved doesn't mean that you can make a credible action-adventure spy flick. At the end of the day, BOND23 is still going to be an action film; it doesn't need to be a drama with some occasional action. There's a real danger, based upon what I've seen in his three movies, that there will be too much talk and not enough action.

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

[Trident]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Exactly why Mendes would be a terrific choice, should he be the man at the helm of Bond 23.

[dinovelvet]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

You probably really should watch Road to Perdition then. If you want to assess Mendes' Bond-worthiness, why did you pick the sappy looking comedy over the gangster drama featuring Daniel Craig?

[The Shark]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

Yeah, it felt like a weird mixture of both. I wouldn't say TWINE had memorable action (with the exception of the good but overly long Thames boat chase) or that the dialogue was particularly good (pretty much the opposite in most cases), though there were occasional good scenes built around suspense (Bond stalking Davidov comes to mind).

Heck I even thought Casino Royale had too much action, with sequences going on for such a long time, to the extent where you'd forget why they were chasing each other (Parkour chase and Miami Airport). Or are badly lit, shot and poorly conceived (Miami airport and Sinking house). It felt they were engineered only to satisfy ADD video gaming teenagers who grew up with the action-saturated Brosnan era, to keep them from getting bored every 20-30 minutes.

Bond shouldn't try to pander and appeal to everyone. If 12 year olds get bored, then screw 'em. Bond is primarily adult entertainment, who with supervision is also accessible to kids. They shouldn't be a target audience. Leave that to the video games, action figures and other merchandise.

[blueman]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

Whew! All is right in the universe again...

What suspense or good dialogue was there in TWINE??? And Spottiswoode directed the Bond pants off Apted!

Just had to disagree with ya, get back to basics as it were. Also, pretty sure a Fincher Bond would look a lot like QOS... 2 cents.

[stromberg]

Posts on the 3D discussion were split from this thread, and also merged with another thread on the same topic. Please continue the 3D discussion here

[Quantumofsolace007]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

Whew! All is right in the universe again...

What suspense or good dialogue was there in TWINE??? And Spottiswoode directed the Bond pants off Apted!

Just had to disagree with ya, get back to basics as it were. Also, pretty sure a Fincher Bond would look a lot like QOS... 2 cents.

Road to Perdition. i named one good Mendes film I'm excited

[MattofSteel]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

I hadn't seen anything of Daniel Craig that had convinced me he'd be a good Bond, either.

I'm not going to worry about it. Last time I spent a year and change worrying about whether Forster could handle a Bond film, and (I'm not going to debate majorities) despite some opinion, I think he succeeded. His direction wasn't the problem. His choice of editing style - which I guess you can call part of his direction - may have been atrocious, but for the large part he acquited himself in the staging of action, focus on design, and Bondian feel.

I'll judge Mendes' merits as a Bond director after he becomes one.

That being said, I agree with both of you in that a certain kind of Bond film has a place for minimal yet memorable action. TWINE's was hardly minimal, CR was a terrific balance.

[Safari Suit]

Fincher's lightening up considerably these days if Benjamin Button is anything to go by. Fatally IMO.

[Cody]

Fincher's lightening up considerably these days if Benjamin Button is anything to go by. Fatally IMO.

I don't think there will be much grit, grime, or gore in his next movie (about the creators of Facebook), either.

[Bondesque]

I just watched Road To Perdition for the second time. If Bond 23 is directed by
Mendes it could be superb. CR was a good film not just a good Bond film. With Mendes at the helm Bond 23 has the potential to be a great film. Mendes' critics should view RTP before casting stones at Mendes. He is a master at creating suspense. That is perfect for a suspense character such as Bond!

[The Shark]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

I hadn't seen anything of Daniel Craig that had convinced me he'd be a good Bond, either.

You hadn't seen Layer Cake?

[danslittlefinger]

That's what Bond needs in my opinion, minimal but memorable action, with plenty of suspense and good dialogue.

Agreed, which is why I like TWINE so much. Then again, I thought I was getting Apted 2.0 when we got Forster, and instead it felt like Spottiswoode 2.0.

The point being that I have so far seen nothing in 3 of Mendes' films that would recommend him to me. Based upon your parameters, I could easily see David Fincher doing a much better job of directing a Bond film than Mendes, because I can at least name 3 or 4 great Fincher pix, yet can't seem to recall even just one of Mendes.

I hadn't seen anything of Daniel Craig that had convinced me he'd be a good Bond, either.

You hadn't seen Layer Cake?

Well yes, that was the film that somewhat leaned on that as we all remember the Bond reference in that from Vaughn.
Craig looked good in that. A lean machine.