35 replies to this topic

[White Tuxedo]

On the Liparis, the British and American sub crews fight with Bond. But where is the Russian crew?

TSWLM looks great, but it has a lot of plot holes.

[Bryce (003)]

Good Evening 005 -

The British and American crews are more visible, but the Russians are in the battle as well.

I've heard tell over the years that in one draft, Anya was to remain on the tanker and her and Bond were to lead the revolt with her barking some orders in Russian.

Are there any particular plot holes that are bugging you. TSWLM is my most watched Bond film at over 500+ viewings. Maybe I can shed some light on it....or simply agree;)

[White Tuxedo]

Well, the thought had crossed my mind that Russians may have been in there, but I don't remember seing any of them.

Maybe they left them in the hold.

[Sir James]

U know those Communist's, they probably let us Yanks, and Brits do their dirty work while they reap the rewards lol

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Bryce (003)
Are there any particular plot holes that are bugging you. TSWLM is my most watched Bond film at over 500+ viewings. Maybe I can shed some light on it....or simply agree;)

Hah! Now you mention it Bryce...
If I followed the movies logic correctly Stromberg wants to provoke WW3 so he can rebuild civilisation in his city beneath the sea.
Bond prevents this by re-targeting the missile of each sub to destroy the other. Wouldn't the simultaneous launch and detonation of two nuclear warheads be enough start some buttons pressing in the Kremlin and the Oval Office?

Actually, to be fair on Christopher Wood, in his novelisations of TSWLM and Moonraker he showed a great understanding of the Fleming Bond and how he should be written. I got the impression he would have been happier doing a grittier, back-to-basics interpretation of the character (FYEO for instance).

[Jim]

What I've always wondered is why Stromberg has to kidnap the third submarine at all; he's got the two he needs already.

Maybe he just likes big tubes full of seamen.

[Jim]

Originally posted by Roebuck


I got the impression he would have been happier doing a grittier, back-to-basics interpretation of the character (FYEO for instance).

Ah, so this is why his name's all over the screenplay for Moonraker (and yes, I've read his books, which are jolly good).

Hmm...

[Blue Eyes]

In regards to the plot point Roebuck, I Don't think the destruction would have started WW3. Both submarines were listed as missing, all three governments knew they were in the hands on Stromberg, and all three would have received reports from their agents in the field.

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Jim
Ah, so this is why his name's all over the screenplay for Moonraker (and yes, I've read his books, which are jolly good).

Hmm...

Did you try any of his stuff other than the movie novelisations?
Fire mountain was a nicely done man-against-nature story. And not a single space shuttle in it.

[Bryce (003)]

My only question about nuking the two subs is that the Atlantic ocean wouldn't be very habitable for a while. That and the potential for a pair of tidal waves to hit both Europe and the east coast.

But that's not Bond's department....Nuke the bad guys, escape the sinking tanker and then rescue the girl.

[The Girl With The Golden Gun]

Originally posted by Bryce (003)


Are there any particular plot holes that are bugging you. TSWLM is my most watched Bond film at over 500+ viewings. Maybe I can shed some light on it....or simply agree;)

500 plus...what????????????????

[Bryce (003)]

Yes.....

That would be me.....

[David Somerset]

There definitely are Russian seamen involved in the revolt on the Liparus. The two nuclear detonations in the Atlantic would certainly have caused chaos and possible consequences of them are not even mentioned. That was a bit unsatisfying but otherwise TSWLM is the best of the 70s Bonds

[Carver]

Ah, some confusing points here, particularly the one about Stromberg needing 3 subs. I have always thought the Russians as being the second lot of sailorsrs whom Bond releases, the ones who run about in those old sailor hats;).

[ChandlerBing]

The Russians were busy trying to keep K-19 from melting down.

[DLibrasnow]

Yeah, I never understood why Stromberg felt it necessary to hijack a British nuclear submarine...American and Russian yes, but why a minor cold war player like the UK...

[stromberg]

Why a british submarine? Oh, well, it just was there. Take the opportunity, why wait until another one comes along? (And the British needed a cause to get James Bond involved. No British sub taken means no reason for MI6 and Bond to take over.)

Why three submarines? The third one was about to attack the Liparus, it had to be captured. And having three submarines is better than just two (if one has enough room to store them all). Always have an escape plan. Who knows if the russian one would have worked O.K.?

As for making the Atlantic a hostile place: You have to ask Commander Bond himself. Seems he got a bit used to that, he did it with the North Sea in the MR novel and it worked, so why shouldn't he give it another try?

hope that helped
stromberg

[Bryce (003)]

Remember - The American (USS Wayne) was an attack class sub and was shadowing the Liparus. Bond & Anya were onboard as "observers" - granted it's never stated beyond the lines earlier:

ANYA: I think we should have a closer look at that tanker.

BOND: (lighting her cigarette) M has already offered to arrange it.

The Russian sub (Potemkin) was a missle boat as was the British (Ranger). They NEEDED two boats given the targets so I believe the US sub was grabbed just due to the fact they were discovered so close to Stromberg's "zero-hour".

Man! I still love this flick!

[DLibrasnow]

Stromberg,
No, I believe that Stromberg tracked down the British submarine using the new tracking technology. There was also conveniently three submarine holding pens inside the Liparus.
I think its a plot flaw, but nothing so bad that it detracts from my favorite of all the Roger Moore Bond movies.

[glidrose]

Plot holes? Try this one on for size. This Stromberg chap wants to destroy the world. He can do it once he's captured the Yank and the Russian subs. But he doesn't, you see. He's now more concerned with locating and killing anyone who gets their hands on the submarine tracking device.

Hullo? Wouldn't destroying the world right away take care of that wee problem?

TSWLM has a thin story with more plot holes than most Bonds.

[AMC Hornet]

Well, the thought had crossed my mind that Russians may have been in there, but I don't remember seing any of them.

The British and American sailors wore blue - the Russians wore white.

Specifically, Rog ran out of ammo at one point, thrust away an attacker, then a blonde sailor (there's yer Russkie) hands him a spare clip.

"Detente indeed."

Edited by AMC Hornet, 17 May 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Plot holes? Try this one on for size. This Stromberg chap wants to destroy the world. He can do it once he's captured the Yank and the Russian subs. But he doesn't, you see. He's now more concerned with locating and killing anyone who gets their hands on the submarine tracking device.

Hullo? Wouldn't destroying the world right away take care of that wee problem?

TSWLM has a thin story with more plot holes than most Bonds.

You realize that with this criticism you could derail the plot of any story.

The bad guy always makes mistakes and waits instead of getting on with his plan.

[hilly]

I love TSWLM, but, now that we've got started....

Why does Anya gasp with shock, panic and surprise at the Lotus diving into the sea, when she stole the blueprints of the car 2 years ago...?
Why does Stromberg go to all the trouble of letting Beckman and Markowitz board the helicopter, when he could just drop them into the same shark pool as the girl who they watch being eaten?
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ELECTRO MAGNET THERE FOR?????

However, as Secret Agent Fan says, you can derail any story if you try hard enough. I come to praise TSWLM, not bury it....

[Mr_Wint]

Plot holes? Try this one on for size. This Stromberg chap wants to destroy the world. He can do it once he's captured the Yank and the Russian subs. But he doesn't, you see. He's now more concerned with locating and killing anyone who gets their hands on the submarine tracking device.

Hullo? Wouldn't destroying the world right away take care of that wee problem?

To clarify, Stromberg's plan is to destroy New York and Moscow, and he then hopes that this will be enough to trigger a nuclear war. Nothing happens "right away". The technology to track submarines is still his biggest asset, hence Jaws is sent to recover the microchip.

[Dustin]

I remember wondering as a kid why Stromberg needed the 3rd submarine. One of my friends suggested to immediately establish a superior position in the new order after WWIII.

Well, would probably have been easier with some decent decontamination technology though...

[Miles Miservy]

What I've always wondered is why Stromberg has to kidnap the third submarine at all; he's got the two he needs already.

Maybe he just likes big tubes full of seamen.

OK......... ICK!!!

[SecretAgentFan]

I love TSWLM, but, now that we've got started....

Why does Anya gasp with shock, panic and surprise at the Lotus diving into the sea, when she stole the blueprints of the car 2 years ago...?
Why does Stromberg go to all the trouble of letting Beckman and Markowitz board the helicopter, when he could just drop them into the same shark pool as the girl who they watch being eaten?
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ELECTRO MAGNET THERE FOR?????

However, as Secret Agent Fan says, you can derail any story if you try hard enough. I come to praise TSWLM, not bury it....

Let me try to go out of my way to justify the plot of my favorite pulp fiction:

1. Anya gasps with shock because... well, it is shocking to actually drive a car full speed into the ocean. And even if I had stolen the plans for that kind of car I could not be sure that it would actually work. Especially when I am a Soviet agent and consider British technology not up to snuff. So...

2. Sure, he could have the two eaten by sharks. But first of all, Stromberg likes to change up his killing methods (hence the dinner table guns...). Second of all, this way he can easily declare their death as an unfortunate helicopter accident (to explain them having become shark fodder is so strenuous).

3. The electro magnet? Why is it there? Of course, you need one if you drop your assistants in the pool and want to get all the jewelry back that you bought for them. Such an underwater city is pretty expensive, mind you, and one should never waste anything.

[Miles Miservy]

I love TSWLM, but, now that we've got started....

Why does Anya gasp with shock, panic and surprise at the Lotus diving into the sea, when she stole the blueprints of the car 2 years ago...?
Why does Stromberg go to all the trouble of letting Beckman and Markowitz board the helicopter, when he could just drop them into the same shark pool as the girl who they watch being eaten?
WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ELECTRO MAGNET THERE FOR?????

However, as Secret Agent Fan says, you can derail any story if you try hard enough. I come to praise TSWLM, not bury it....

I thought the way Beckman & Markovitz got killed was kinda cool. I always thought Stromberg was one of the nastier villains. "Well done guys; Good work; You're free & clear; Here's $20 million. Now go on, you crazy kids & stay out of trouble." He let's them get airborne and then... "...just kidding. Oh & I'm pissed at the pilot, too."

In my opinion, one of the BETTER of the villains' introductions.

[AMC Hornet]

That introduction had me convinced that Curt Jergens was Blofeld, until his name was finally mentioned at the Cairo debrief.

As for Anya not recognizing Wet Nellie: Was the Lotus Esprit shell even available in 1975? Perhaps the blueprint only featured an approximation of its exterior configuration.

Or, just because Bond had a Lotus didn't necessarily mean it was the QST/A117 Submersible - what are the chances? (A: Pretty good, since Anya recognized Major Boothroyd when he delivered it). Anyway, just because she knew of the blueprints didn't mean that she was aware that Q Branch had developed a working model.

I'd always wondered about the Liparus' third sub dock too - a 'just in case' precaution, I suppose.

Anyway, I love TSWLM enough to ignore all its gaping plot holes while I'm watching it.

[Messervy]

I haven't watched it in a while (I actually am thinking of rewatching it tonight), but isn't there soldiers in red outfits fighting alongside the US and UK ones? Wouldn't they be Russians?