53 replies to this topic

[bond4life]

Shot Greene instead of letting him go. It ruined the ending for me

[DaveBond21]

Don't you think it was one of the best villain deaths? Probably the slowest and most agonising. Greene was forced to walked for miles, through a baking hot desert, with an injured foot.

He then tried to drink motor oil, before being executed by his own people.


Additionally, Greene only gave Bond all the information he knew, because Bond promised to spare him. If Bond had killed him, he would have gone against his word. That's not in Bond's character and he knows Quantum will execute Greene anyway.

[bond4life]

Don't you think it was one of the best villain deaths? Probably the slowest and most agonising. Greene was forced to walked for miles, through a baking hot desert, with an injured foot.

He then tried to drink motor oil, before being executed by his own people.


Additionally, Greene only gave Bond all the information he knew, because Bond promised to spare him. If Bond had killed him, he would have gone against his word. That's not in Bond's character and he knows Quantum will execute Greene anyway.

You make a good point but im so use seeing bond killing the villain at the end of every bond film. dont you think that every bond film should be like that?

[Tybre]

Shot Greene instead of letting him go. It ruined the ending for me

Just shooting him in the head? Now that, for me, would have ruined Quantum of Solace. It is infinitely more satisfying to picture Greene alone, hot, struggling to find some sort of shelter from the sun while he deals with the agony of wounds incurred at the hotel. To picture him staggering, half-alive through the sands, every so often pausing, looking down at the little can of motor oil...he knows it's going to kill him, but he's so thirsty...And then, at long last, a helicopter or a car arrives, and there is the faintest glimmer of hope...the logical portion of his brain snaps off, and the notion of being killed there and then is gone, and he believes that maybe, just maybe, he's going to be saved, be given a second chance...And that is when, no doubt in even worse pain from having drunk the oil and staggered this far, he is at long last delivered a bullet to the skull. That, monsieur, is much more satisfying, if you ask me.

[The Shark]

Just shooting him in the head? Now that, for me, would have ruined Quantum of Solace. It is infinitely more satisfying to picture Greene alone, hot, struggling to find some sort of shelter from the sun while he deals with the agony of wounds incurred at the hotel. To picture him staggering, half-alive through the sands, every so often pausing, looking down at the little can of motor oil...he knows it's going to kill him, but he's so thirsty...And then, at long last, a helicopter or a car arrives, and there is the faintest glimmer of hope...

Yes that was fantastic, surely one of the best scenes in the film, starting with menacing whirling of the blades and the panning shot of the helicopter landing, with Greene finding himself at the end of Mr. White's pistol. What a brilliant scene. Pure Sergio Leone with a Forster touch of the lizard crawling across Greene's oil drenched body...

Oh yeah.. Sorry. That scene never existed. What a miscalculated and embarrassing cop-out.

Edited by The Shark, 02 November 2009 - 11:41 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

He shouldn't have.

[DaveBond21]

Don't you think it was one of the best villain deaths? Probably the slowest and most agonising. Greene was forced to walked for miles, through a baking hot desert, with an injured foot.

He then tried to drink motor oil, before being executed by his own people.


Additionally, Greene only gave Bond all the information he knew, because Bond promised to spare him. If Bond had killed him, he would have gone against his word. That's not in Bond's character and he knows Quantum will execute Greene anyway.

You make a good point but im so use seeing bond killing the villain at the end of every bond film. dont you think that every bond film should be like that?

Not really. You should remember that Bond does not kill the main villain in Thunderball, YOLT, OHMSS, Diamonds are Forever, For your Eyes Only or Casino Royale.

[The Shark]

Don't you think it was one of the best villain deaths? Probably the slowest and most agonising. Greene was forced to walked for miles, through a baking hot desert, with an injured foot.

He then tried to drink motor oil, before being executed by his own people.


Additionally, Greene only gave Bond all the information he knew, because Bond promised to spare him. If Bond had killed him, he would have gone against his word. That's not in Bond's character and he knows Quantum will execute Greene anyway.

You make a good point but im so use seeing bond killing the villain at the end of every bond film. dont you think that every bond film should be like that?

Not really. You should remember that Bond does not kill the main villain in Thunderball, YOLT, OHMSS, Diamonds are Forever, For your Eyes Only or Casino Royale.

Agreed. Sadly the generation who grew up with the Brosnan films were so over-saturated with the "formula" that most of the true classics don't hold to if you look at them closely.

With many of the 60s Bonds, Bond hardly ever orders a Martini, says "Bond, James Bond", uses lots of gadgets or have a car chase or explosion every minute. Yet the Brosnan films ticked the boxes of the formula slaveishly in every possible way so that when it came to CR Brosnan fans were naturally upset.

[JimmyBond]

Just shooting him in the head? Now that, for me, would have ruined Quantum of Solace. It is infinitely more satisfying to picture Greene alone, hot, struggling to find some sort of shelter from the sun while he deals with the agony of wounds incurred at the hotel. To picture him staggering, half-alive through the sands, every so often pausing, looking down at the little can of motor oil...he knows it's going to kill him, but he's so thirsty...And then, at long last, a helicopter or a car arrives, and there is the faintest glimmer of hope...

Yes that was fantastic, surely one of the best scenes in the film, starting with menacing whirling of the blades and the panning shot of the helicopter landing, with Greene finding himself at the end of Mr. White's pistol. What a brilliant scene. Pure Sergio Leone with a Forster touch of the lizard crawling across Greene's oil drenched body...

Oh yeah.. Sorry. That scene never existed. What a miscalculated and embarrassing cop-out.

A cop out, really? I think if anything people would have complained it was too similar to White executing Le Chiffre. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Though I gotta admit, you paint an interesting picture. I would have loved to see a scene like that play out.

[The Shark]

Just shooting him in the head? Now that, for me, would have ruined Quantum of Solace. It is infinitely more satisfying to picture Greene alone, hot, struggling to find some sort of shelter from the sun while he deals with the agony of wounds incurred at the hotel. To picture him staggering, half-alive through the sands, every so often pausing, looking down at the little can of motor oil...he knows it's going to kill him, but he's so thirsty...And then, at long last, a helicopter or a car arrives, and there is the faintest glimmer of hope...

Yes that was fantastic, surely one of the best scenes in the film, starting with menacing whirling of the blades and the panning shot of the helicopter landing, with Greene finding himself at the end of Mr. White's pistol. What a brilliant scene. Pure Sergio Leone with a Forster touch of the lizard crawling across Greene's oil drenched body...

Oh yeah.. Sorry. That scene never existed. What a miscalculated and embarrassing cop-out.

A cop out, really? I think if anything people would have complained it was too similar to White executing Le Chiffre. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Though I gotta admit, you paint an interesting picture. I would have loved to see a scene like that play out.

Thanks! I agree it might have been too similar to the despatching of Le Chiffre in CR, though the way to avoid it would be to shoot in a completely different manner with lots of wide long takes and symbolism, more about suspense than anything else.

It would also be a nice pay-off for Greene's character along with the disappearance of Mr White for most of the film. Showing the dog-eat-dog mentality of Quantum and Greene's fall from power along with a parallel to CR.

[jaguar007]

You make a good point but im so use seeing bond killing the villain at the end of every bond film. dont you think that every bond film should be like that?

Why do what has been done before?

[dinovelvet]

Shot Greene instead of letting him go. It ruined the ending for me

Nah, shooting him would just end it quick. Leaving him in a desert to die, his foot already destroyed? Slow and agonizing.

Brosnan would have shot him and made a quip. Ho-hum. Let's see, channelling the spirit of Purvis and Wade...

"Looks like you got your just "deserts", Dominic!"

[sharpshooter]

A creature like Greene does not deserve a straightforward, quick and painless death. It’s all over within seconds and you cannot do anything else with them. He’s the type that merits a long, drawn out punishment. To suffer.

[Qwerty]

Have to say that I loved the ending. Greene's bewildered look of despair works perfectly.

[Bucky]

one of the best bond film endings

[The Shark]

If only we saw it.

[Tybre]

If only we saw it.

Once again, I must disagree. In many cases, the imagination can be far better than the final product. And honestly people would be griping either way. "We should've seen it!" like they are now, or if we had "They should've done it this way!" or "They should've just alluded to it!"

[The Shark]

If only we saw it.

Once again, I must disagree. In many cases, the imagination can be far better than the final product. And honestly people would be griping either way. "We should've seen it!" like they are now, or if we had "They should've done it this way!" or "They should've just alluded to it!"

In some cases yes, but since this is the final apex of the conflict between Greene and Bond, it would make more sense to show it than imply it.

A big miscalculation (and not the only one) on Forster's part.

[00Twelve]

Couldn't disagree with this thread more strongly. Greene's is my absolute favorite villain death in the series. To me, it's infinitely better that I didn't see it, but it was rather left to my own imagination. Not to mention that chilling shot of Bond leaving Greene in the infinite expanse of desert, utterly alone. The mere suggestion of his death and Bond's look of satisfaction was a perfectly truculent end for Greene and I couldn't personally see any improvement by showing it happen after watching Bond defeat and emasculate him once already.

Sort of like Bondian love scenes and why the love scene in DAD is just plain out of place. The tradition of leaving the lovers to the imagination is a sound one that has remained in this series for good reason. My favorite is still the segue from Bond and Miss Taro collapsing on the bed to the ceiling fan, then back to the relaxed couple some time later. Sometimes suggestion is just the best way to go.

Now, I'm not saying this particular use of suggestion over explicitness need continue for the main villains in the near future; we the audience gain satisfaction in seeing the appropriately gruesome end of Bond's customary nemesis. But it sure worked to an effective end this time, at least for me.

[Bucky]

agreed tybre. i love it the way it is with bond leaving greene and then seeing his reaction when he hears about it later.

[Vauxhall]

Shot Greene instead of letting him go. It ruined the ending for me

You do realise that he did die afterwards?

In my opinion, it was executed perfectly and demonstrates a respect for the audience in that everything does not have to be spelled out and explicitly shown on screen. What purpose would it have served sticking a bullet in Greene's head right there and then? Less is more.

[The Shark]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

[00Twelve]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

Nah. Just don't agree. Overkill, in my opinion. Greene's death is much more effective in the imagination.

[The Shark]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

Nah. Just don't agree. Overkill, in my opinion. Greene's death is much more effective in the imagination.

Yep you're right. The boat chase, plane chase, roof-top chase, car chase, and banana chase would played out much better that way.

Edited by The Shark, 03 November 2009 - 05:38 AM.

[Vauxhall]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

Nah. Just don't agree. Overkill, in my opinion. Greene's death is much more effective in the imagination.

Yep you're right. The boat chase, plane chase, roof-top chase, car chase, and banana chase would played out much better that way.

The subtlety of the banana chase in particular was top notch.

[00Twelve]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

Nah. Just don't agree. Overkill, in my opinion. Greene's death is much more effective in the imagination.

Yep you're right. The boat chase, plane chase, roof-top chase, car chase, and banana chase would played out much better that way.

The banana chase, for sure.

In the present case, however, Greene's fate is verbally implicated when Bond explains to him that Quantum will be looking for him, and we know that he's right because they established that MO with Le Chiffre, eliminating untrustworthy operatives. We physically saw how they go about that, so it's unnecessary to see it again with a different victim. We thus already know that if Greene doesn't merely die of dehydration, he's doomed anyway. The shot of him as a tiny speck in the vast desert speaks volumes by itself, and hearing that Greene drank the oil and got it from Quantum is more satisfying than any redundant scene with White we could have watched happen after having Le Chiffre's execution and Bond's word to convince us that it was inevitable.

[tdalton]

dont you think that every bond film should be like that?

No.

The ending is just fine as it is. It's one of the best endings in the entire series, if not the best ending.

[Zorin Industries]

Shot Greene instead of letting him go. It ruined the ending for me

Really? I like my films to follow the less is more mantra. Everything we needed to know was there. And after 22 films I think I know how these things pad out...

[MattofSteel]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm not convinced the overt use of subtlety benefited the film as a whole, but it was a refreshing change and in this case, made for an exceptionally iconic (and oddly Flemingesque) ending.

And managed to be a rather charged political statement at the same time.

[Zorin Industries]

Not everything does of course, however this case DEMANDED a better closing scene for Greene. Even if it was a mere shot of him drinking the can of oil and collapsing, with an ascending crane shot finishing the deal.

But the case with Quantum (and even GREENE) is not closed yet. And SOLACE is about a different sort of closure - that of BOND himself. The story cannot and need not tidy itself up with blatant and dull images of GREENE downing oil. And why attach yet more hollow importance to that unecessary moment by using a "crane shot"?