49 replies to this topic

[O.H.M.S.S.]

In Licence to Kill James Bond kisses his best friend's wife twice on the mouth. We know James likes beautiful women but isn't that a step too far? Is it really a custom as Della says? I'd say a very strange one if that's true. Can someone enlighten this please?

Edited by O.H.M.S.S., 19 September 2009 - 11:10 AM.

[Dell Deaton]

In Licence to Kill James Bond kisses his best friend's wife twice on the mouth. We know James likes beautiful women but isn't that a step too far? Is it really a custom as Della says? I'd say a very strange one if that's true. Can someone enlighten this please?

The Della-Bond relationship didn't sit well with me, either.

It's one of those cases where it feels like the plot was biased to make a relationship important, so that the loss to come would feel more significant. (I'd argue that the Bond-Vesper relationship from the movie three years ago similarly fell short.)

Think about it: We've never heard of Della, nor, for that matter, had any inclination that Felix was a wedding-sorta-guy. The movie itself picks up with him seemingly more interested in chasing the bad guy from a helicopter than marrying a woman who's hot enough to be a Bond Girl in her own right. I suppose you could go further and think of the Felix Leiter of Goldfinger or Diamonds Are Forever and muse, "What? I would'a thought he had a dowdy wife at home already." Add to that the fact that some (altho not all, due to the years that had passed) felt they knew this Felix from Live and Let Die, and you have a real disposability issue to overcome with Della's fate.

Personally, I'd have done the Felix-Della relationship differently, put more passion into their dynamic, and motivated Bond by his deep friendship with Leiter. (Unfortunately, we've yet to see that truly realized as Ian Fleming richly and credibly detailed it in the books.)

[Turn]

It seemed to me like Della was coming on strongly to Bond, tossing him the garter, giving him looks and such. Bond seemed to play it as such and she was more the aggressor.

[Tybre]

It seemed to me like Della was coming on strongly to Bond, tossing him the garter, giving him looks and such. Bond seemed to play it as such and she was more the aggressor.

I concur. Della was the instigator, I thought. Bond was just sort of playing along to keep her happy, until the garter.

[DaveBond21]

Bond and Della's relationship reminds me of Delboy's and Boycey's wife, Marelene (who often share a kiss and a pinch of the butt or two), in Only Fools & Horses!!

It's obvious in LTK, that Bond and Della have flirted often in the past.

[Dekard77]

The scene is highly inappropriate and worst it actually feels like Dalton is a playboy Bond who can get any woman he wants. He didn't play Bond that way at all and the scene sends out a mixed signal.

[PPK_19]

Good thread. I have always thought it inappropriate. Imagine being best man at your best mate's wedding and kissing his wife on the mouth not once, but twice!! The next step would be a quickie up against the wall.
I've never liked it either. Though i love how Dalton plays Bond after Della says 'The one who catches this is the next one who..' Emotionally damaged, understated. Nice bit of acting from Dalton.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Good thread. I have always thought it inappropriate. Imagine being best man at your best mate's wedding and kissing his wife on the mouth not once, but twice!! The next step would be a quickie up against the wall.
I've never liked it either. Though i love how Dalton plays Bond after Della says 'The one who catches this is the next one who..' Emotionally damaged, understated. Nice bit of acting from Dalton.

It's a rather inappropriate scene in an otherwise excellent film. You're right about that, and you're also right that Dalton played the 'The one who catches ...' scene very well. Great to see Bond getting more depth once in a while.

[byline]

Interesting. I can't say that I've ever noticed this before. Guess I'll have to watch again and pay closer attention!

[MajorB]

I disagree. We're close friends with a few other couples (married), and it's usual for us to exchange kisses on the lips. It's affectionate but totally platonic. What it suggests to me is that Bond spent a fair amount of off-work hours with Felix and Della and got to know her well enough that that sort of gesture became very natural. I admit that this doesn't fit in perfectly with our image of Bond's off-screen life, and I grant that it therefore feels a little forced. But in and of itself, I don't think it's inherently improper.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I go for the French two cheek approach. Although there have been a few friends other half’s I wouldn’t have minded having a go at full on the lips, but that’s beside the point. I recall it was a bit like, is James up to something behind Felix’s back? It seemed like a little bit of history was between them? Or maybe we are just reading too much into it? Perhaps they are just dam good friends? As MajorB says it can be totaly platonic.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I never really thought anything shady was going on there between Bond and Della. It was just a joyous occasion and everyone was in a good mood.

However, I will also add that I always got the impression from both the film and the novelization that Bond and Della had had some relationship in the past (and had obviously ended on good terms). That would also explain the familiarity of their kissing on the lips.

[Zorin Industries]

I've always read it that DELLA and BOND had a relationship in the past and that FELIX (being an adult) knows that and accepts that they moved on long ago.

And there is nothing wrong with men kissing women once, twice or however many times. They are all meant to be adults. And if a world weary spy is not a man of the world and familiar with greeting beautiful women then I don't know who is.

[Royal Dalton]

However, I will also add that I always got the impression from both the film and the novelization that Bond and Della had had some relationship in the past (and had obviously ended on good terms). That would also explain the familiarity of their kissing on the lips.

I've always read it that DELLA and BOND had a relationship in the past and that FELIX (being an adult) knows that and accepts that they moved on long ago.

Exactly.

[FLEMINGFAN]

I always thought that the Bond and Della scenes were a bit creepy. Maybe the original casting of Priscella Presley would have softened the edges that the trashy Ms. Barnes brings to the role, but I think not. It also seemed that Bond was more upset by the death of Della than the attack on his old and dear friend, Felix Leiter.

Since it is a sort of buddy-film, perhaps the whole wedding angle should have been dropped and Felix should have been snatched some time after the Sanchez arrest. This would have given a more singular, and intense, focus on Bond and his 'out for revenge' motive. We could have also had a few scenes where Felix hears reports of Bond's on-going destruction of the Sanchez dynasty and see his recovery increase from that.

In addition, the happy-go-lucky Felix at the end of the film was also a bit creepy, as well. Did he quickly forget his VERY recent maiming and death of his wife while he was making those fishing plans with James? (Ah, it must have been the drugs they were giving him!)

Sadly, it is a flawed film that badly needed the final polishing that could not be given due to the writer's strike at the time.

[00Twelve]

Since it is a sort of buddy-film, perhaps the whole wedding angle should have been dropped and Felix should have been snatched some time after the Sanchez arrest. This would have given a more singular, and intense, focus on Bond and his 'out for revenge' motive. We could have also had a few scenes where Felix hears reports of Bond's on-going destruction of the Sanchez dynasty and see his recovery increase from that.

In addition, the happy-go-lucky Felix at the end of the film was also a bit creepy, as well. Did he quickly forget his VERY recent maiming and death of his wife while he was making those fishing plans with James? (Ah, it must have been the drugs they were giving him!)

Sadly, it is a flawed film that badly needed the final polishing that could not be given due to the writer's strike at the time.

Man, I don't agree often with you on Craig or his movies, but I'm certainly in agreement here. Now, I didn't dislike Ms. Barnes, but the original treatment in the novel was so superior to this movie that I think that some distance after the wedding would have made the entire thing better. I also say that as a rabid fan of the character.

Still, I know they were going for that bond between widowers and feel strongly that Bond was motivated not only by revenge for Della & Felix, but his own widow was in his mind as well.

ending, though, for sure.

[Zorin Industries]

I always thought that the Bond and Della scenes were a bit creepy. Maybe the original casting of Priscella Presley would have softened the edges that the trashy Ms. Barnes brings to the role, but I think not. It also seemed that Bond was more upset by the death of Della than the attack on his old and dear friend, Felix Leiter.

Since it is a sort of buddy-film, perhaps the whole wedding angle should have been dropped and Felix should have been snatched some time after the Sanchez arrest. This would have given a more singular, and intense, focus on Bond and his 'out for revenge' motive. We could have also had a few scenes where Felix hears reports of Bond's on-going destruction of the Sanchez dynasty and see his recovery increase from that.

In addition, the happy-go-lucky Felix at the end of the film was also a bit creepy, as well. Did he quickly forget his VERY recent maiming and death of his wife while he was making those fishing plans with James? (Ah, it must have been the drugs they were giving him!)

Sadly, it is a flawed film that badly needed the final polishing that could not be given due to the writer's strike at the time.

I do think people should be careful when they throw in things like "the writer's strike" to criticise an end product they don't like. I am not sure there would be the dramatic tension in having DELLA killed after SANCHEZ's arrest and before her wedding. The wedding that lifts the tone of the film to get us through the optimistic opening titles before all hell breaks loose where DELLA's demise is surely all the more fierce post-wedding.

I am not sure LICENCE TO KILL is a buddy film. It is a James Bond film and FELIX and BOND only shares onscreen time together at the start of the film.

Narratively the film needs BOND to be as upset by the death of DELLA as otherwise what would his motivation be for the rest of the film? Unless FELIX himself was killed, we need to see BOND really angered by what happens. And he does that because DELLA and FELIX are personal and longtime friends.

Just my thoughts...

[MajorB]

Maybe the original casting of Priscella Presley would have softened the edges that the trashy Ms. Barnes brings to the role, but I think not.

I hadn't heard that. I know Presley was the first choice for Stacey Sutton, but hadn't heard she was also considered for Della. At least she would've been a little more age-appropriate for Hedison.

[vednam]

If Bond and Della used to be in a relationship, why doesn't Della know that Bond was once married?

[OmarB]

In the Gardner novelization he does go into detail of the group dynamic with Bond, Felix and Della. Yes they did date and afterward Bond himself introduced her to Felix a year before the events of the movie take place.

It's another case of the novelization far outshining the movie on several levels. Things made more sense and flowed better.

[JimmyBond]

If Bond and Della used to be in a relationship, why doesn't Della know that Bond was once married?

Bond (in all his incarnations...except Craig I imagine) seems to me the kind of guy who isnt going to bring it up very much, if at all. Bond certainly ignores the question when talking to Elektra in TWINE.

[vednam]

If Bond and Della used to be in a relationship, why doesn't Della know that Bond was once married?

Bond (in all his incarnations...except Craig I imagine) seems to me the kind of guy who isnt going to bring it up very much, if at all. Bond certainly ignores the question when talking to Elektra in TWINE.

Maybe. It just seems strange for Bond and Della to have been in a positive relationship without his previous marital status ever coming up.

[zencat]

The kissing on the mouth -- twice! -- is very, very strange. I don't know what they were thinking. But LTK is loaded with odd choices.

[Gabriel]

I assumed Della and Bond had had a brief relationship a la the Roger Moore era's 'brief' flings and she'd subsequently got involved with Felix via Bond.

On some level, Della still felt something for Jimbo, got trashed and tried to snog him.
I never saw anything untoward there, just a fit, drunk older bird who fancied a snog while her new husband was locked away in a room with a fit younger bird from the CIA!

[David_M]

Narratively the film needs BOND to be as upset by the death of DELLA as otherwise what would his motivation be for the rest of the film? Unless FELIX himself was killed, we need to see BOND really angered by what happens. And he does that because DELLA and FELIX are personal and longtime friends.

There's also the fact that Bond's own wife was murdered (as LTK itself reminds us). As angry as Bond may be over Felix's physical maiming, he understands even better the mental anguish of losing a wife. As Felix himself will be unable to exact vengeance, Bond's going to do it for him.

In a way, I see this film as making up a bit for not giving us a revenge film after OHMSS. But of course on that level, it'll always be a consolation prize at best, not to mention incongruous. I mean, if he's not going to lose it over his own wife, why would he go ballistic over somebody else's?

I didn't like the kissing, either, and while I don't find Priscilla Barnes "trashy," I certainly felt she added to the "made for TV" feeling, considering she was most famous as a replacement for a replacement on "Three's Company." Throw in veteran TV baddie Anthony Zerbe, plus Bond's rent-a-wreck and K-mart wardrobe, and this film always feels like the cheapest in the lot to me.

[SecretAgentFan]

In Licence to Kill James Bond kisses his best friend's wife twice on the mouth. We know James likes beautiful women but isn't that a step too far? Is it really a custom as Della says? I'd say a very strange one if that's true. Can someone enlighten this please?

Actually, I just thought that Della is a bit tipsy and over the moon due to her wedding with Felix that she kisses James. It´s also a way to underline how attractive Bond really is.

It bothers me much more that Felix is so happy at the end of the film. I also hate Bond jumping into the pool for Pam at the end. Can somebody explain that scene to me?

BUT... although I have criticized LTK in the past it still is a good Bond film and I LOVE the way Dalton looks at Della and Felix after their suggestion he could remarry. That is a wondeful moment.

[Dekard77]

It doesn't fit the scene but does show Bond can be sly even with the best pals wife. Also I remember reading in one novel about how Felix wouldn't trust Bond with wife/girl friend simply because Bond is Bond.

[Mr. Blofeld]

It bothers me much more that Felix is so happy at the end of the film. I also hate Bond jumping into the pool for Pam at the end. Can somebody explain that scene to me?

I think this quote from user Col. Sun will help explain things:

I never felt John Glen had the most creative grasp of a script or the overall tone of a film. There were a few ill-judged "cuts" made in LTK which favoured humour instead of trusting the drama. Example: The final scene at the party, when Bond is on the phone to Leiter, who's recovering in hospital from his torture.

Originally the scene was longer and much more sombre. Leiter is clearly grateful to Bond but still greatly hurt by the death of his wife, and Bond's tone is darker, less satisfied with what he's done; only in the last few seconds of the conversation did things lighten up a bit, but not too much: It was still a serious scene.

Unfortunately, John Glen felt the scene was too downbeat for the end, so the darker tone of the first two thirds were cut and the last third was made more upbeat by changing the takes, and thus the actors readings and performances, to make them appear as cheerful as possible.

I remember being bitterly disappointed at the time as I stood at the back of the dark cutting room, watching a strong and dramatically appropriate scene being sliced and reduced to a "happy little chat". It didn't work and stands out like a sore thumb, especially these days. I think that was a misjudgment of tone and of trusting the drama and the audience.

[SecretAgentFan]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I´d have loved to see that scene in the Bonus Section of the DVD...

[Mr. Blofeld]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I´d have loved to see that scene in the Bonus Section of the DVD...

Me, too, but I'm guessing all unused clips not compromising a finished scene were junked.