42 replies to this topic

[coco1997]

Is it just me or does he look a little like Dalton?

[Safari Suit]

Right, but "oriental" is a borderline racist term that refers to those originating from the Orient, i.e. the far East. As in, not Denmark or the Ukraine.

I'm not sure about "oriental" being a borderline racist term either, but I don't think it's unfair to note that actors from Denmark cannot accurately be called it even if it's not a racist (or xenephobic) term.

[dinovelvet]

Right, but "oriental" is a borderline racist term

Is it indeed? I was a student in London at the School of Oriental and African Studies. I guess the name should have tipped me off that it was a hotbed of racism. Heck, I guess I must be racist for attending a college with such a name.

Well now we have some food for thought. As usual, we must go to Reliability Central, aka wikipedia, for the answers :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

American English
While a number of reference works used in the United States describe Oriental as pejorative, antiquated or offensive in some instances, the American Heritage Book of English Usage notes that

It is worth remembering, though, that Oriental is not an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. It is most objectionable in contemporary contexts and when used as a noun, as in the appointment of an Oriental to head the commission. In these cases Asian (or a more specific term such as Vietnamese, Korean, or Asian American, if appropriate) is the only acceptable term. But in certain historical contexts, or when its exotic connotations are integral to the topic, Oriental remains a useful term.^{http://en.wikipedia....ent#cite_note-2} Random House's Guide to Sensitive Language states "Other words (e.g., Oriental, colored) are outdated or inaccurate." This Guide to Sensitive Language suggests the use of "Asian or more specific designation such as Pacific Islander, Chinese American, [or] Korean." ^{http://en.wikipedia....ent#cite_note-3} Merriam-Webster describes the term as "sometimes offensive,"^{http://en.wikipedia....ent#cite_note-4} Encarta states when the term is used as a noun it is considered "a highly offensive term for somebody from East Asia."

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So obviously we can conclude...well I don't know what we can conclude exactly, other than that there's a certain "sensitivity" in some parts about using the word. Maybe its a UK/ultra-PC USA difference. In any case, I still don't think its an applicable word to describe Mads Mikkelsen, and DeNiro still sucks. (MACHETE? Come on, Bob, say "No" once in a while, eh?)

Awesome.

[Safari Suit]

The world will be a slightly more interesting place for the fact that De Niro will have shared the screen with Steven Seagal by the end of next year though. I mean such an idea might have been sad in a pre-Meet the Parents age, but now it's just ace.

[Judo chop]

As the next Bond villain, I’d take DeNiro over Sam Jackson.
I’d take Sean Connery over DeNiro.
Needless to say, I’d take a lot of choices over Sean Connery returning as a Bond villain.

I don’t see why “Oriental” should be any more offensive than “Eurasian”. But then the phenomenon of offensive language isn’t my specialty. Seems to me that masses of people just decide on a whim when a term is slated to become offensive, and I never get the memo until it’s too late.

[Loomis]

It is worth remembering, though, that Oriental is not an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. It is most objectionable in contemporary contexts and when used as a noun, as in....

Oh, off.

(Not to dinovelvet, but to those wankers who lay down the law regarding this twaddle.)

[Loomis]

This Guide to Sensitive Language suggests the use of "Asian or more specific designation such as Pacific Islander, Chinese American, [or] Korean."

What does "Asian" mean? It could include anyone from Turkey to Indonesia or from Israel to Japan and many points in between. Even if you narrow it down a tad, you've got the situation where, in Britain, "Asian" is normally used to denote someone with roots in the Indian subcontinent, whereas in the States it's generally used for folks from China, Japan, Korea and so forth. Not that "Oriental" is hugely more specific or helpful, of course, but it does at least narrow it down to east Asia.

[Fan]

He's too well known. He doesn't fit in with the new era. The Brosnan era was all big name, the Craig era is all about more unknown, oriental actors, with great potential.

Ah so we are getting that YOLT remake then...?

I was referring to the likes of Mads Mikkelsen and Olga Kurylenko, the more foreign and different actors, that you wouldn't necessarily find in a Bond movie.

Right, but "oriental" is a borderline racist term that refers to those originating from the Orient, i.e. the far East. As in, not Denmark or the Ukraine.

What are you talking about? Oriental simply means Eastern - for example, the sorts of places one would study whilst reading for an Oriental Studies degree. I agree that Eastern Europe does not count, but the allegation that the word is offensive is simply laughable.

[Loomis]

Well, I'd agree that "oriental" is quite an old-fashioned word, as is its opposite, "occidental" (a word that's hardly ever used any more - Wikipedia informs me that there's also "meridional", meaning southern, and "septentrional", meaning northern, which are words I'd never even heard of).

But just because it's undeniably a bit old-fashioned as words go, why does that make it offensive? Because I can't see any reason for it to offend. Likewise, why is it okay to call someone a Frenchman, yet "Chinaman" is, as I understand it, nowadays seen as a highly offensive term?

Look, cards on the table: I may be just a beer-swilling redneck, but I'd really appreciate an explanation from the PC police on precisely why using these terms makes someone a Nazi.

[Syndicate]

Is it just me or does he look a little like Dalton?

Is that really a current photo of Dalton, and you're not sure is it him, or is that a current photo of Mandy Patinkin that happen to look like Dalton tody The first that came to my mine was Mandy Patinkin when I swa that photo.

I have not seen any photos of Dalton since his James Bond days, so I have no idea how he looks. Hopfully someone else can shead light on it.

[Syndicate]

I don't think they want De Niro these days. What they are looking for are stars that do alot of BBC stuff, BBC type, Hollywood indy type movies and some time big name Hollywood movies. Not just for villian also the good guys. So you can forget actors like Tim Curry, Kevin Spacy, Robert Patrick, Thomas Jay, Johnny Deepp, Van Damme, Chris Cooper, Ray Stevenson, Bruce Greenwood and Danny Houston to name some.

[MrDraco]

What would he play also? A Casino owner? LOL j/k

[coco1997]

Is it just me or does he look a little like Dalton?

Is that really a current photo of Dalton, and you're not sure is it him, or is that a current photo of Mandy Patinkin that happen to look like Dalton tody The first that came to my mine was Mandy Patinkin when I swa that photo.

I have not seen any photos of Dalton since his James Bond days, so I have no idea how he looks. Hopfully someone else can shead light on it.

I was simply drawing the comparison between this pic which gives an indication of what Patinkin looks like now to what current-day Dalton looks like. Here's photographic evidence: