88 replies to this topic

[Zorin Industries]

Dame Shirley Bassey Of Wales and some sectors of the press had been touting her new album (her first studio one for twenty years), but THE PERFORMANCE is happening and is released in November.

Whilst this is news, but maybe not stunning news....I can now suggest why this is indeed now very much cool news...

Not only is David Arnold producing the album, but it has been announced that John Barry and Don Black have worked with her on a track entitled OUR TIME IS NOW. It is the first time since DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (1971) that Bassey, Black and Barry have worked together. Interested yet?

Add to that a Pet Shop Boys track called THE PERFORMANCE OF MY LIFE, a Manic Street Preachers effort as well as collaborations on this album with Richard Hawley and KT Tunstall and you may have the makings of a very interesting album.

Talking about the new album, David Arnold says on a BBC website: "All these songs were just songs, until Dame Shirley Bassey sang them. "There's something about a Bassey performance that can knock the wind out of your sails, make you laugh, make you cry, let you in on the joke or be led to a more exotic place."

Don Black says "it's been quite a few years since Diamonds are Forever, but that lyric still applies to Dame Shirley. She lustres on."

'The Performance' will be released in November 2009 when I imagine Bassey might get a few more people interested in her album this time round than just gay men and Welsh housewives.

[danslittlefinger]

Can't wait for Dame Bassey.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

Interested yet?

Answer: Barry+Black+Bassey=YES!

[Qwerty]

A James Bond reunion for Shirley Bassey's new album

New studio album includes contributions from David Arnold, John Barry and Don Black

[Professor Dent]

Yes, this just got a bit more interesting!

[Qwerty]

I've gone ahead and merged your thread here, Zorin Industries.

[killkenny kid]

Really, looking forward to this.

[Gabriel]

Looking forward to the album. When it comes to a Bond theme, it's common sense to hire a strong singer. People also have strong expectations for a Bond film. There hasn't been a strong theme tune in years and, let's face it, the last 'stripped down' Daniel Craig Bond film had some issues in the story department and in its opening titles.

A Shirley Bassey theme song would tie nicely back to the past and provide a solid opening to the film.

After the ing atrocity of the last film's opening theme a good, modern song sung by a really strong singer (ie Dame Shirley) could be a good balance between the kitsch and cool that the Bond films exist in!

Would would people prefer: a duet performed by Geri Halliwell and Cheryl Cole?

Edited by Gabriel, 09 September 2009 - 10:52 AM.

[Zorin Industries]

Looking forward to the album. When it comes to a Bond theme, it's common sense to hire a strong singer. People also have strong expectations for a Bond film. There hasn't been a strong theme tune in years and, let's face it, the last 'stripped down' Daniel Craig Bond film had some issues in the story department and in its opening titles.

A Shirley Bassey theme song would tie nicely back to the past and provide a solid opening to the film.

After the ing atrocity of the last film's opening theme a good, modern song sung by a really strong singer (ie Dame Shirley) could be a good balance between the kitsch and cool that the Bond films exist in!

Would would people prefer: a duet performed by Geri Halliwell and Cheryl Cole?

You say "let's face it..." but not everyone has needed to as not everyone shares your thoughts on the last two Bond films. And why on earth would Geri Halliwell and Cheryl Cole be performing a Bond song. Neither of them can sing and neither of them are known abroad. They have no cache which is why the likes of Cornell and White got involved. It is about making a statement about the tune as much as it is getting the right voice to croon it.

[deth]

Shirley will not do the next Bond song... she doesn't appeal to the demographic the films aim for...

[dee-bee-five]

Shirley will not do the next Bond song... she doesn't appeal to the demographic the films aim for...

Very true. However I could live with a classic Bondian end title song performed by La Bassey. And, from a marketing/PR point of view, it would create interest/column inches...

[Trident]

Shirley will not do the next Bond song... she doesn't appeal to the demographic the films aim for...

Very true. However I could live with a classic Bondian end title song performed by La Bassey. And, from a marketing/PR point of view, it would create interest/column inches...

I'm not sure about that, Bassey supposedly not appealing to 'target audience'. She's a stunning singer and still headline news, very cool headline news in this particular pairing with such diverse acts as the Preachers, Arnold, Barlow and Tunstall pooling their talent with Bassey's. I think it would be much more a question of whether the song fits the new film or not. And if it does, I really don't see how Bassey performing could be a hindrance?

[SecretAgentFan]

Can´t wait to hear it, have high expectations for this album.

I do see why the chances for Bassey doing another Bond song are slim.

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

[Trident]

Can´t wait to hear it, have high expectations for this album.

I do see why the chances for Bassey doing another Bond song are slim.

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

I would have thought the last one was Turner's 'Goldeneye'. But I see what you mean and have to agree. The title songs have slowly become a niche phenomenon that's genrally not getting much attention any more beyond a certain point, usually connected to the release of the new film. A few weeks in the programmes of the radio stations and MTV and usually that's that. In terms of selling the song and film I doubt that Bassey could really do much worse.

[dee-bee-five]

Can´t wait to hear it, have high expectations for this album.

I do see why the chances for Bassey doing another Bond song are slim.

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

I would have thought the last one was Turner's 'Goldeneye'. But I see what you mean and have to agree. The title songs have slowly become a niche phenomenon that's genrally not getting much attention any more beyond a certain point, usually connected to the release of the new film. A few weeks in the programmes of the radio stations and MTV and usually that's that. In terms of selling the song and film I doubt that Bassey could really do much worse.

Possibly. And, hell, if Sinatra were still around and could hold a tune, personally I'd have him do it! But let's get real. The powers-that-be will not think she appeals to the demographic they're aiming for and that will be that. It's possible they might think at the time Bond #23 comes out she's retro-cool enough to do it, I suppose, but I have my doubts...

[Trident]

Can´t wait to hear it, have high expectations for this album.

I do see why the chances for Bassey doing another Bond song are slim.

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

I would have thought the last one was Turner's 'Goldeneye'. But I see what you mean and have to agree. The title songs have slowly become a niche phenomenon that's genrally not getting much attention any more beyond a certain point, usually connected to the release of the new film. A few weeks in the programmes of the radio stations and MTV and usually that's that. In terms of selling the song and film I doubt that Bassey could really do much worse.

Possibly. And, hell, if Sinatra were still around and could hold a tune, personally I'd have him do it! But let's get real. The powers-that-be will not think she appeals to the demographic they're aiming for and that will be that. It's possible they might think at the time Bond #23 comes out she's retro-cool enough to do it, I suppose, but I have my doubts...

I also don't think there's a real chance for that happening. But I remember Bassey hitting quite unexpectedly heavy with 'History Repeating' and I think she really could have another hit if it just fitted the film and came at the right moment.

[Qwerty]

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

Guess it depends on what one considers a hit. Taking a look at the main singles chart peak positions...

Another Way to Die: 9 (UK) -- 81 (US)
You Know My Name: 7 (UK) -- 79 (US)
Die Another Day: 3 (UK) -- 8 (US)
The World is not Enough: 9 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
Tomorrow Never Dies: 12 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
GoldenEye: 10 (UK) -- 10 (US)

[Harmsway]

Barry and Bassey back for a new song?

That certainly has my attention. Can't wait to hear it.

[dee-bee-five]

As an afterthought, it has struck me that if the 92 year old Dame Vera Lynn can make the charts, anything is possible, I suppose...

[Trident]

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

Guess it depends on what one considers a hit. Taking a look at the main singles chart peak positions...

Another Way to Die: 9 (UK) -- 81 (US)
You Know My Name: 7 (UK) -- 79 (US)
Die Another Day: 3 (UK) -- 8 (US)
The World is not Enough: 9 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
Tomorrow Never Dies: 12 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
GoldenEye: 10 (UK) -- 10 (US)

Really most interesing. I wouldn't have thought DAD did so well compared to the others. Yet I was more thinking of the long term selling power of a song. And here I think the 'classics' (make your own definition of that label) sell above average for several decades at times while the more recent entries quickly became obscure. Both TWINE and TND are hardly ever on the radio and Madonna's song is also seldom played. I've not been listening much to radio these last few years, so I can't speak for YKMN or AWTD but I strongly suspect they shared the same fate a few weeks after their respective films started.

The old 80's songs like FYEO, AVTAK, or TLD are a part of many radio stations staple diet and played every few weeks. Likewise with GE, which has even become a signature song for Bond and often accentuates TV news features about secret services in general, Bond of course, and even Brosnan (if the editors want an emphasis on the Bond angle). These songs have become a part of modern Bond folklore as well as they've earned themselves a place in 'mainstream' pop culture. I have some doubts whether the newer songs can achieve similar merits. Yes, of course they're also Bond songs, but apart from that they have yet to show if they will still play outside the ranks of us fans in twenty or thirty years from now.

And no, I don't think a quick push adding to the momentum of a new release is really all EON wants from a Bond song. Certainly not. It's the very least a Bond song has to provide, aid the film and its PR campaign along, get the public to know 'Bond Is Back' and so on. But I think EON would really like to have a major hit, something that's running long and strong, a song intensive enough to make people chant it in football stadiums. I suspect that's why they went with White and it's a terrible shame it didn't work out that way.

[The Shark]

The composer you mentioned all took their inspiration from David Arnold Bond's score.

Which is a mix of the 60's barry and modern action music (with some electronic stuff)
If you listen to Johnny English from Shearmur or "l'enquete Corse" from Desplat, which are fun score for sure, you'll see that they are parodying Arnold style of music for the Bond.

Arnold's style of combining techno trash with occasional traces of coherent orchestration and melody, was hardly new or original. It was a unified trend in 90s with action scores, particularly as electronics became more mainstream and action films were often nostalgic or in some way referenced the past.

To do a Parody of a bond score is much easier than to make a real bond score in my opinion.

Which is the key problem with Arnold.

Saying that his music is still a rehash from TND is completly wrong for me. They is clearly a difference between the brosnan period and the Craig one.
WHy because the movies are so different.

Not really. Even though this a small progression from one polarity - the Brosnan era - to the other - the Craig era, the difference is minimal at best.

Arnold is simply a left over from the Brosnan era that should have been left behind along with over the top gadgets, CGI and poor scripts.

Arnold can't score a bond movie like Barry did.

Which is mainly down to his lack of skill - theoretical knowledge of music theory, orchestration, composition, counterpoint, harmony and creativity.

Either way this is good news, Arnold's a very good producer if nothing else, and the fact that Barry and Bassey are working together is excellent news.

[Qwerty]

Yet - would she really sell less records/downloads than the last performers? I mean, c´mon - how much did Cornell or White/Keys sell? Even Madonna could not really get her song to be a massive hit. The last to do really well IMO was A-ha´s "The living daylights", right?

Guess it depends on what one considers a hit. Taking a look at the main singles chart peak positions...

Another Way to Die: 9 (UK) -- 81 (US)
You Know My Name: 7 (UK) -- 79 (US)
Die Another Day: 3 (UK) -- 8 (US)
The World is not Enough: 9 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
Tomorrow Never Dies: 12 (UK) -- did not chart (US)
GoldenEye: 10 (UK) -- 10 (US)

Really most interesing. I wouldn't have thought DAD did so well compared to the others. Yet I was more thinking of the long term selling power of a song. And here I think the 'classics' (make your own definition of that label) sell above average for several decades at times while the more recent entries quickly became obscure. Both TWINE and TND are hardly ever on the radio and Madonna's song is also seldom played. I've not been listening much to radio these last few years, so I can't speak for YKMN or AWTD but I strongly suspect they shared the same fate a few weeks after their respective films started.

I think what Die Another Day had going for it was it's strong presence on the club/dance Billboard charts (some of which it topped--hence the stronger performance here on the US Hot 100 perhaps). Still, I can't remember the last time I heard it on the radio (and, like you mention, I don't think I've ever heard the Tomorrow Never Dies, The World is not Enough or Casino Royale songs on the radio).

It's a shame they can't get another megahit like Live and Let Die, Nobody Does It Better or A View to a Kill.

[Trident]

It's a shame they can't get another megahit like Live and Let Die, Nobody Does It Better or A View to a Kill.

You know, I think they will in the end. EON's choice of artists really used to be close, with none of them entirely incapable of producing a hit. It just happened that the Bond work of these artists either wasn't up to scratch with their usual quality (White/Keys and Madonna comes to mind) or that they perhaps had their best and most creative times behind them (Garbage, Crow).

YKMN perhaps has a special place here as I think it has a very filmic sound. I don't think it's too hard rockin' but actually too much tailored for the main titles. If I compare it to AVTAK I feel the latter is still working good without the main titles, just as a plain song. YKMN on the other hand seems to me to need the titles, it's so much a part of the film that it just seems to lose momentum when I don't watch the main titles when hearing it.

[Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr.]

Arnold is a very competent musician, unfortunately he's been stuck on the electronics with Bond, though he has slowly been moving away from them. Anyone who says he can't compose music knows nothing about film music, as during the '90s he came up with some great scores that made the films they were accompanying far better than what was on screen.

Comparing him to Arnold isn't really fair and I don't understand why people always go back to that argument. His style is not Barry's, it is something different and I have come to appreciate it. I though TWINE and DAD were pretty bad compared to TND, but was glad he stayed on with the franchise. A composer such as Hans Zimmer or his group would be no different than what Arnold does. In fact, their problem is that they do exactly what everyone complains that Arnold do, so why people push for a new composer is beyond me.

Personally, I have no problem with Arnold as I felt he redeemed himself with Casino Royale. Quantum of Solace showed that he could score the picture without blasting the music in every scene so I have high hopes he'll be involved with the next film. Let's just hope the electronics continue to take a back seat.

[double o ego]

If Bassey was to do the theme, I'm pretty sure, the song would yield better results than the themes since TLD/AVTAK.
Bassey doesn't appeal to the demographic the films are targeting? Well, the artists that have been used to appeal to the film's demographics for the past 20 years havn't exactly set tongues wagging. Sometimes, the best way to approach certain things can be down to basic instinct. We have an awesome Bond in Craig. CR was hailed as the best Bond in decades, QoS overall was a lukewarm movie and don't get me started on the majority opinion of White/Key's theme. With Bond 23 looking to be handled with care and hiring a phenomenal scribe in Morgan....and with the back to basics mantra...sometimes, an element(s) of the successive past attributed to the package can do wonders and if such an element comes in the form of Bassey, at the very least, it can't do any worse than what's come before within the last 20 years.

If EON were smart, they'd go all out and make Bond 23 awesome which I hope they're going to do. Realy do justice to the film and series as it approaches it's 50th birthday, with Bassey's profile on the rise again and her talent never waning, give the series a shot of the good stuff from the classic era, something recognisable, something that contributed to the staple traditions that people all over the world, respect, love and admire. That magic can be achieved with Bassey.

[littlenellie]

Arnold's style of combining techno trash with occasional traces of coherent orchestration and melody, was hardly new or original. It was a unified trend in 90s with action scores, particularly as electronics became more mainstream and action films were often nostalgic or in some way referenced the past.

no one said it was new or original.It was different for Bond and worked for the most part,making the style definitely Bond and then itself establishing itself as a style copied by others (Shrek,Goldmember,Johnny English sound more Arnold Bond than Barry Bond)
I dont think techno is trash,I dont think Arnolds use of electronics is either techno or trash.People who generally describe electronic music as techno generally dont know anything about it.A bit like people who think all orchestral music sounds the same.Quote from a man overheard at the John Williams Hollywood Bowl Concert "Why is he just playing background music?"

To do a Parody of a bond score is much easier than to make a real bond score in my opinion.

Which is the key problem with Arnold.

Arnold describes his Bond music as having the spirit of Bond music in it without being parody.I agree with him and disagree with your analysis of it as parody.

Saying that his music is still a rehash from TND is completly wrong for me. They is clearly a difference between the brosnan period and the Craig one.
WHy because the movies are so different.

Not really. Even though this a small progression from one polarity - the Brosnan era - to the other - the Craig era, the difference is minimal at best.

Arnold is simply a left over from the Brosnan era that should have been left behind along with over the top gadgets, CGI and poor scripts.

the difference is noticeable though.its as noticeable as the difference between Thunderball and Goldfinger.

Arnold can't score a bond movie like Barry did.

Which is mainly down to his lack of skill - theoretical knowledge of music theory, orchestration, composition, counterpoint, harmony and creativity.

How do you know his level of knowledge ? Have you heard his other scores ? Amazing Grace,last of the Dogmen,Stargate ? They all sound pretty competent to me.And since when did knowing the rules make for a good composer? The dullest music I have heard in my life is from music grads who think because they know theory they can write music.yawn....

Either way this is good news, Arnold's a very good producer if nothing else, and the fact that Barry and Bassey are working together is excellent news.

Agreed at last !

[The Shark]

Arnold's style of combining techno trash with occasional traces of coherent orchestration and melody, was hardly new or original. It was a unified trend in 90s with action scores, particularly as electronics became more mainstream and action films were often nostalgic or in some way referenced the past.

no one said it was new or original.It was different for Bond and worked for the most part,making the style definitely Bond and then itself establishing itself as a style copied by others (Shrek,Goldmember,Johnny English sound more Arnold Bond than Barry Bond)

The problem is that even though it was different, it was distinguished from other film scores at the time, which is what in Barry's days, Bond soundtracks always were.

I dont think techno is trash,I dont think Arnolds use of electronics is either techno or trash.People who generally describe electronic music as techno generally dont know anything about it.A bit like people who think all orchestral music sounds the same.Quote from a man overheard at the John Williams Hollywood Bowl Concert "Why is he just playing background music?"

I do know a lot about techno and electronics, I love techno, everything from The Prodigy to Vangelis. I just don't like Arnold's use of techno, and I find his synth beats intrude on the score rather than contribute to it. He should stick to just orchestral or just synthesisers, not both.

To do a Parody of a bond score is much easier than to make a real bond score in my opinion.

Which is the key problem with Arnold.

Arnold describes his Bond music as having the spirit of Bond music in it without being parody.I agree with him and disagree with your analysis of it as parody.

Arnold wouldn't know what the spirit of Bond music was if it broke his precious MIDI keyboard.

Saying that his music is still a rehash from TND is completly wrong for me. They is clearly a difference between the brosnan period and the Craig one.
WHy because the movies are so different.

Not really. Even though this a small progression from one polarity - the Brosnan era - to the other - the Craig era, the difference is minimal at best.

Arnold is simply a left over from the Brosnan era that should have been left behind along with over the top gadgets, CGI and poor scripts.

the difference is noticeable though.its as noticeable as the difference between Thunderball and Goldfinger.

At least TB and GF's scores were consistently high quality.

Arnold can't score a bond movie like Barry did.

Which is mainly down to his lack of skill - theoretical knowledge of music theory, orchestration, composition, counterpoint, harmony and creativity.

How do you know his level of knowledge ? Have you heard his other scores ? Amazing Grace,last of the Dogmen,Stargate ? They all sound pretty competent to me.And since when did knowing the rules make for a good composer? The dullest music I have heard in my life is from music grads who think because they know theory they can write music.yawn....

They all sound pretty dull and predictable to me. And usually yes, one can tell from the composer's creative effort, what their understanding and knowledge of music theory and orchestration is. Without even knowing anything about Barry's background I can tell that his technical knowledge and ability is far greater and more accomplished than that of Arnold. Creativity and imagination is important, but without technical knowledge it's useless.

And I agree music grads who've studied Music Theory in many cases write crap music. I'm with you there, and this is more prevalent today than before in the post-modern world of classical. But generally very solid understanding (even just reading books or studying scores) is fundamental in the creation of a good composer.

Either way this is good news, Arnold's a very good producer if nothing else, and the fact that Barry and Bassey are working together is excellent news.

Agreed at last !

Good news.

[littlenellie]

Arnold's style of combining techno trash with occasional traces of coherent orchestration and melody, was hardly new or original. It was a unified trend in 90s with action scores, particularly as electronics became more mainstream and action films were often nostalgic or in some way referenced the past.

no one said it was new or original.It was different for Bond and worked for the most part,making the style definitely Bond and then itself establishing itself as a style copied by others (Shrek,Goldmember,Johnny English sound more Arnold Bond than Barry Bond)

The problem is that even though it was different, it was distinguished from other film scores at the time, which is what in Barry's days, Bond soundtracks always were.

I dont think techno is trash,I dont think Arnolds use of electronics is either techno or trash.People who generally describe electronic music as techno generally dont know anything about it.A bit like people who think all orchestral music sounds the same.Quote from a man overheard at the John Williams Hollywood Bowl Concert "Why is he just playing background music?"

I do know a lot about techno and electronics, I love techno, everything from The Prodigy to Vangelis. I just don't like Arnold's use of techno, and I find his synth beats intrude on the score rather than contribute to it. He should stick to just orchestral or just synthesisers, not both.

not liking it is one thing,calling it trash is another.I like it,and even if I didnt I wouldnt call it trash,although I appreciate that you would.

To do a Parody of a bond score is much easier than to make a real bond score in my opinion.

Which is the key problem with Arnold.

Arnold describes his Bond music as having the spirit of Bond music in it without being parody.I agree with him and disagree with your analysis of it as parody.

Arnold wouldn't know what the spirit of Bond music was if it broke his precious MIDI keyboard.
Yes he would.(just joining in with this pointless train of criticism based on , apparently,dislike rather than substantiated facts)Many would disagree with you.some might agree.

Saying that his music is still a rehash from TND is completly wrong for me. They is clearly a difference between the brosnan period and the Craig one.
WHy because the movies are so different.

Not really. Even though this a small progression from one polarity - the Brosnan era - to the other - the Craig era, the difference is minimal at best.

Arnold is simply a left over from the Brosnan era that should have been left behind along with over the top gadgets, CGI and poor scripts.

the difference is noticeable though.its as noticeable as the difference between Thunderball and Goldfinger.

At least TB and GF's scores were consistently high quality.
I think CR is a consistently high quality score.

Arnold can't score a bond movie like Barry did.

Which is mainly down to his lack of skill - theoretical knowledge of music theory, orchestration, composition, counterpoint, harmony and creativity.

How do you know his level of knowledge ? Have you heard his other scores ? Amazing Grace,last of the Dogmen,Stargate ? They all sound pretty competent to me.And since when did knowing the rules make for a good composer? The dullest music I have heard in my life is from music grads who think because they know theory they can write music.yawn....

They all sound pretty dull and predictable to me. And usually yes, one can tell from the composer's creative effort, what their understanding and knowledge of music theory and orchestration is. Without even knowing anything about Barry's background I can tell that his technical knowledge and ability is far greater and more accomplished than that of Arnold. Creativity and imagination is important, but without technical knowledge it's useless.
not sure how you could listen to Stargate for instance and claim it to be a product of someone who knows nothing of melody,harmony,orchestration or counterpoint.Again, where is the evidence for arnolds apparent ignorance of these things?


And I agree music grads who've studied Music Theory in many cases write crap music. I'm with you there, and this is more prevalent today than before in the post-modern world of classical. But generally very solid understanding (even just reading books or studying scores) is fundamental in the creation of a good composer.
its fundamental to the execution of it but not necessarily the creation and and production of it.It depends on whether you think the purity of its creation depends on every aspect of it being from the pen of the composer,or whether in film music,which isnt classical music and is practical music written under tight deadlines and having to match a moving picture,could be fleshed out by orchestrators from a sketch,which is as we know,how most film music is written nowadays.Its also interesting to me,whether Barrys style would be tolerated in todays cinema.especially action,as his long and langorous approach to action which created a unique atmosphere,would suffice in a world where the requirement to drive the action is all too common.i think Barrys style was unique and wonderful,but you dont hear any movies coming out of hollywood that really have that approach.Directors and studios have changed and not it seems,always for the better.its like they have no faith in their composers or their audience.When Arnold has a film to score about something non action, like amazing Grace, i think he writes beautiful music which importantly doesnt sound like john barry but sounds like him.Im not sure we would be having this discussion about Arnold if he wasnt doing Bond.They did give him a grammy fro Independence Day,so not everyone agrees with your assessment of his work as dull and predictable

Either way this is good news, Arnold's a very good producer if nothing else, and the fact that Barry and Bassey are working together is excellent news.

Agreed at last !

Good news.

you old softy


and i really must learn how to do this quote/colour thing.sorry about that

[The Shark]

its fundamental to the execution of it but not necessarily the creation and and production of it.It depends on whether you think the purity of its creation depends on every aspect of it being from the pen of the composer,or whether in film music,which isnt classical music and is practical music written under tight deadlines and having to match a moving picture,could be fleshed out by orchestrators from a sketch,which is as we know,how most film music is written nowadays.Its also interesting to me,whether Barrys style would be tolerated in todays cinema.especially action,as his long and langorous approach to action which created a unique atmosphere,would suffice in a world where the requirement to drive the action is all too common.i think Barrys style was unique and wonderful,but you dont hear any movies coming out of hollywood that really have that approach.Directors and studios have changed and not it seems,always for the better.its like they have no faith in their composers or their audience.When Arnold has a film to score about something non action, like amazing Grace, i think he writes beautiful music which importantly doesnt sound like john barry but sounds like him.Im not sure we would be having this discussion about Arnold if he wasnt doing Bond.They did give him a grammy fro Independence Day,so not everyone agrees with your assessment of his work as dull and predictable

I agree with you here mate. It's a sort of a reflection of the decline of the film music industry, where scores are rushed, almost mass-produced without any though a lot of the time, which is shame. Since it used to be a highly skilled art that sort of branched off from classical music, but now seems more and more generic.
Ideally the composer should start work on the score at preproduction after reading the script, and carry through with it up and until post-production, and orchestrate and arrange the music himself, and if he has skill, conduct it. This way he can maintain artistic authenticity over it.
I think Stargate, Independence Day and Amazing Grace and pretty good scores, though most of his stronger stuff is in his early days. Almost like the advent of electronics and MIDI mock-ups has resulted in him becoming lazier when it comes to scoring, as many composers seem to have.

I was also thinking about whether or not John Barry's action music would feel outdated, some of it would (though usually that's the unmemorable action cues, such as those in TMWTGG and OP) though most of it wouldn't. The best being in Thunderball and OHMSS which sounds far more "raw" and "gritty" and Bond-like than most of Arnold's action cues - stuff like Chateau Fight - TB and Underwater Mayhem.

If I were to score a Bond action cue it would be something Stravinskyian - like this, something that Barry and countless other 20th composers have been inspired by.

[Loomis]

And why on earth would Geri Halliwell and Cheryl Cole be performing a Bond song. Neither of them can sing and neither of them are known abroad.

For "abroad" read "America". Sadly, it seems that fame in the United States is considered an absolutely crucial precondition when hiring people to do Bond songs. Do they really believe Americans will desert a new Bond film in droves if they happen not to have heard of the act performing the title song? Well, it appears that they do. A great pity, as this rules out some singers, bands and producers who'd be wonderful choices.