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Quantum vs. SPECTRE


45 replies to this topic

#31 Mr_Wint

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:19 AM

The only thing scary with 'Quantum' is the lackluster writing and direction that followed with them. A complete failure. Next time, they should look at FRWL/TB for inspiration.

#32 byline

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:58 PM

A complete failure.

In your opinion. For me, it was a tremendous success. This is a difference of opinion, of course, but one or the other opinion doesn't make either a universal truth, and shouldn't be stated as such.

#33 Harmsway

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 04:01 PM

Regardless of their handling in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, Quantum is hardly a complete failure. BOND 23 could still use the organization to great effect.

#34 Judo chop

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 04:29 PM

All QOS did was open the Quantum™ door a crack. It gave us a peek into the enormity, and motives, of the institution. Perhaps that could have been handled better, but it certainly could have been handled worse. In any event, QOS never meant to be ‘all about’ Quantum and it never intended to tackle a large scale operation. QOS’s handling of Quantum was intended as a tease… to whet our appetites through Bond’s discoveries for a much, much bigger picture. Greene’s plot was supposed to amount to a mere “drop in the bucket”. Pun ruthlessly intended.

The success of Quantum™ as the new S.P.E.C.T.R.E is not dependent on QOS. It is dependent on where they go from here. Like it or not, that was always the intention.

#35 Mr_Wint

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:07 PM

A complete failure.

In your opinion. For me, it was a tremendous success. This is a difference of opinion, of course, but one or the other opinion doesn't make either a universal truth, and shouldn't be stated as such.

Since we have had Internet and Forums a couple of years now, it goes without saying the this was my opinion and nothing else. The "IMHO" is wearing a little bit thin, especially since I rarely write about other peoples opinion.

#36 Sir James Molony

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 01:35 AM

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who can shed light on the geopolitics lurking below the surface of QOS.

I'm no expert, but my take on it was that Bolivia was only one piece of the puzzle. It was Greene's operation, which was why he was so adamant that it continue, but there was at least one other operation underway: the Canadian one. And Canada has one of the largest sources of freshwater in the world. So I believe that Quantum's aim -- or, at least, one of them -- is to control the world's freshwater supply. They're buying it up, bit by bit.


Wow, that's a really interesting idea. QUANTUM mentions Canada in their Tosca meeting, and of course Corrine is from Canada, but I never made the connection to water.

Of course, the last time M tried to assign Bond to Canada, Bond ended up in the Bahamas chasing Domino. B)

#37 tdalton

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:43 AM

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who can shed light on the geopolitics lurking below the surface of QOS.

I'm no expert, but my take on it was that Bolivia was only one piece of the puzzle. It was Greene's operation, which was why he was so adamant that it continue, but there was at least one other operation underway: the Canadian one. And Canada has one of the largest sources of freshwater in the world. So I believe that Quantum's aim -- or, at least, one of them -- is to control the world's freshwater supply. They're buying it up, bit by bit.


Wow, that's a really interesting idea. QUANTUM mentions Canada in their Tosca meeting, and of course Corrine is from Canada, but I never made the connection to water.

Of course, the last time M tried to assign Bond to Canada, Bond ended up in the Bahamas chasing Domino. B)


I'd like to see this idea continue in BOND 23. I think that (finally) sending Bond to Canada would be a good move, as its one of a few locations the films have never been too. It would also give them a chance to bring back Corinne, a character with whom I think Bond could find a very interesting dynamic considering the situations both of them have found themselves put into by QUANTUM.

#38 byline

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 03:40 AM

A complete failure.

In your opinion. For me, it was a tremendous success. This is a difference of opinion, of course, but one or the other opinion doesn't make either a universal truth, and shouldn't be stated as such.

Since we have had Internet and Forums a couple of years now, it goes without saying the this was my opinion and nothing else. The "IMHO" is wearing a little bit thin, especially since I rarely write about other peoples opinion.

True enough. I guess anything stated as an absolute is one of my pet peeves. Because, after all, opinion is just that, and not an absolute. But if we state it with enough conviction. . . . Not saying people shouldn't believe what they believe; I do, obviously. But I try to dial down the "admitting no exception" tone whenever possible.

#39 Frimmel

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:44 PM

The only thing scary with 'Quantum' is the lackluster writing and direction that followed with them. A complete failure. Next time, they should look at FRWL/TB for inspiration.


You mean the parts in TB where the bad guys wear rings with the insignia of their criminal organisztion for all to see?

FRWL however is a terrific use of an 'other' playing enemies off one another for their own ends.

But that illustrates the difficulty with Spectre and Quantum.

The thing is these days the 'ends' of a vast criminal conspiracy can't simply be undefined MacGuffin. Audiences seem to need more than, "They're the bad guys" or they're trying to extort money (One hundred billion dollars!)

Define the ends too well and make them too simple, the audience asks why haven't the good guys won yet, is Bond an idiot. Keep them vague, shifting and intricate and the audience gets bored, doesn't follow and asks why they should care, as Bond is never going to 'win.'

#40 Mr_Wint

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 04:06 PM

The only thing scary with 'Quantum' is the lackluster writing and direction that followed with them. A complete failure. Next time, they should look at FRWL/TB for inspiration.


You mean the parts in TB where the bad guys wear rings with the insignia of their criminal organisztion for all to see?

I think they created something that worked much better, cinematically speaking, with FRWL and TB. And yes, that includes the rings. The sight of a well-organized criminal braintrust with a ruthless, unseen, leader enhanced the films since the villains became as interesting as Bond himself.

QOS fails to create some kind of mystery around the organization. It's more or less Greene talking about how evil they are. He could've been a 90s-villain and the film would still be more or less the same.

The defenders will say that the filmmakers wanted to be vague. But this is the second film they talk about some kind of organization behind it all. And sooner or later, the filmmakers have to deliver something a little bit more comprehensive. Otherwise, it is a wasted opportunity. And that perfectly sums up QOS.

#41 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 08:18 PM

http://video.google....329053600562261

Quantum is still very appealing to me as a villianous organization.I hope we get more quantum next time.

#42 danielcraigisjamesbond007

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 08:21 PM

To add another point about SPECTRE: SPECTRE was created during the Cold War. While it may have been "scary" back then, we look back on those films and the danger is gone because we think "Oh, well the Cold War is over."


But what did SPECTRE really had to do with the Cold War? All they did was use one side against the other for their own means. This was especially apparent in FRWL. Blofeld was never a Communist sympathizer. SPECTRE could have easily been used in the post-Cold War era. It's just that their means of doing business seemed crude in compare to Quantum.

I think that, now, SPECTRE has lost its sense of being scary because they were so "visible." Quantum, however, is more sinister because they do things with secrecy and aren't as "visible" as SPECTRE.

#43 Turn

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:08 AM

I like both Quantum and SPECTRE. Both offer different and similar things.

When Dr. No mentions SPECTRE in the first film of the series, I wonder if anybody, save those who had read TB, at the time gave it a second thought. In hindsight, just because Quantum isn't fully revealed in QoS, it needs to be remembered SPECTRE wasn't fully formed then either or at least all their motivations weren't completely in the open in FRWL. Their plot was to steal the Lektor, put the British and Russians at odds and score a personal revenge with Bond.

We got an island and some operatives. Blofeld was headquartered on a yacht. The end credits even had fun with a ? next to Blofeld's name.

It was with TB and YOLT we got the scope of the vast network that SPECTRE was. Maybe we'll see that with Quantum, who knows? I like the mystery.

One of the big differences is SPECTRE is in-your-face bad guys, right down to the black outfits. You're told from the beginning they are the enemies.

With Quantum, it's a matter of what are their intentions and who is among them, which isn't clear and part of the fun. SPECTRE never had a traitor right inside MI6, M's bodyguard no less. Nor did they have a highly placed member of the government in their employ, at least not that it was revealed. Mr. White's "We have people everywhere..." has to be one of the most chilling lines of the series. A traitor from this organization works so much better than a Trevelyan or a Miranda Frost did in the Brosnan era.

#44 sharpshooter

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:29 AM

You mean the parts in TB where the bad guys wear rings with the insignia of their criminal organisztion for all to see?

Well, Quantum members get around wearing those Q lapel pins.

#45 Forward Look

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:19 AM

Quantum is (from what we've seen so far) like a parasite, manipulating governments and resources for profit, and then moving on to the next place. From Greene's dialogue it seems they already did this in Haiti and were laying the groundwork for other South American takeovers.


This observation actually makes sense, as it's a corrupt consortium of major corporate interests moving from one lucrative opportunity to the next. Their only motivation is money and financial gain, achieved quietly and without interference from all government officials worldwide. It would be very easy for Quantum to buy influence and power in any government organisation, including my country's U. S. Congress and the White House. Any elected official can be bought by Quantum for a price, and it can be done without anyone else knowing about it. In a sense, this is the modern-day SPECTRE. And as long as major corporations are making questionable profits by immoral means, screenwriters will continue to write stories about them. It's hardly a new idea, as we've seen it on Roger Moore's Gold (1974). Since then, immorally questionable corporate profits have become socially acceptable, but I sense that this mentality may be running its course.

#46 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:18 PM

http://online.wsj.co...0955866301.html

Another coup in latin America...although this time the Honduras congress acted on thier constitution and it is legitamate. Obama is siding with the leftist dictator and Chavez, Castro... Ugh.


QOS...the most relevant Bond outing ever.