48 replies to this topic

[tim partridge]

I think the Dr Kaufman scene alone, with the "I could shoot you from Stuttgart..." joke is wittier than anything written in any Brosnan Bond movie. The car break in moment?

The banter with Carver is great too. Also, Judi Dench's M was at her least annoying when she was having it out with Roebuck in the opening. I cannot remember any other time in an Eon Bond movie where Dench's M actually got laughs for jokes in the cinema.

Yes, the delivery of much of the dialogue leaves much to be desired (particularly Brosnan's mahogany and cheese performance as 007), but give Spotiswoode hell for that, not the writers.

Glad you guys agree with me on the "John Glen" element of GE.

Edited by tim partridge, 07 April 2009 - 06:33 PM.

[Harmsway]

I think the Dr Kaufman scene alone, with the "I could shoot you from Stuttgart..." joke is wittier than anything written in any Brosnan Bond movie.

It's a good scene, I'll give you that - perhaps the best in the film. But I don't think it's particularly witty.

The banter with Carver is great too.

In which scene? In some places its passable (never outstanding), but in others, its enough to make me wince. And no, it's not just Brosnan's bland delivery.

Yes, the delivery of much of the dialogue leaves much to be desired (particularly Brosnan's mahogany and cheese performance as 007), but give Spotiswoode hell for that, not the writers.

I'll blame the writers for Moneypenny's awful dialogue, all those terrible lines spouted off during the bike chase, most of the dialogue between Bond and Paris, a lot of Carver's nonsense... heck, I'll just blame the writers for almost all of it.

Sure, Moore could have saved a lot of the dialogue. That doesn't make it good dialogue to begin with.

Glad you guys agree with me on the "John Glen" element of GE.

I do. But I don't think it's a good thing. Glen was a horrible director, so saying that GOLDENEYE plays like an excellent Glen film is something of a backhanded compliment. At least coming from me, that is.

[tim partridge]

I still say that had Campbell directed TND with the same tone of GE, it would have been a very good Bond film, much better than GE. The thought of a Spotiswoode directed GE though with the same tone of TND... Makes me very scared.

TWINE I felt had a strong Campbell/Glen influence in it's tone and direction. I think Brosnan did really well with the moodier toned Bond films rather than being a Z-rate Roger Moore. Pity Eon didn't capitalise on that side of him more.

Edited by tim partridge, 07 April 2009 - 06:45 PM.

[Harmsway]

I still say that had Campbell directed TND with the same tone of GE, it would have been a very good Bond film, much better than GE.

I'd say maybe, but only if they adhered more closely to Feirstein's first draft of TOMORROW NEVER DIES, which had a more interesting storyline than the final film, and used better, more interesting locations than the bland technovomit settings in TOMORROW NEVER DIES.

TWINE I felt had a strong Campbell/Glen influence in it's tone and direction.

It did. But given that it is, by far, the worst-directed Bond film, that's by no means a compliment to either Campbell or Glen.

I think Brosnan did really well with the moodier toned Bond films rather than being a Z-rate Roger Moore.

Nah, I'm not sure he did. When asked to be "moody" or "dramatic," Brosnan inevitably hammed it up to high heavens (as he does in the statue scene/beach scene in GOLDENEYE, or in any of the drama-laden moments in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH), and when asked to be relaxed and fun, Brosnan often felt too tight and self-conscious to pull it off. Though he just started to get the hang of it in DIE ANOTHER DAY, but the material he was working from was so bad, it was impossible for him to really let loose.

[tim partridge]

I can't agree. The whole DAD "performance" was cheese on toast, which is physically painful to sit through watching it these days. It's like watching your Dad doing Roger Moore by way of Austin Powers, at your twenty first birthday party.

TWINE is the worst directed Bond film? I think you'll find that's DAD or TND, certainly in my opinion. At least TWINE had a consistent tone (second unit aside), mood, mise en scene and bent over backwards to serve it's story (which unfortunately as we all know was sadly not up to much). It also had actual blocked dramatic moments involing actors where it's clear character motivation was discussed (love or loathe her, the hard work shows in Marceau's performance). Spotiswoode on the other hand seems to give no reign to actors (Jonanthan Pryce is great, but not even in the same film as everyone else in terms of tone) and shoots very very flat coverage that is all made in the editing.

I just checked out the scene in Carver's penthouse, a gorgeous set ruined by cramped coverage, flat, eye-level camera angles that go against the Ken Adamish set design, bad lighting and just WEIRDLY poor directorial blocking. Look at that bizarre long shot in which Ricky Jay enters the room to get Carver's attention- that would hit the cutting room floor on a first week media studies project, let alone a Bond film. Watch any scene from SWLM (or even AVTAK) and then watch that one again. Some of you grill Glen for being boring, but at least his films don't display technical incompetence in them like this!

DAD better directed than TWINE?? I don't even have to justify that one, do I? Now I am SERIOUSLY scared.

Edited by tim partridge, 07 April 2009 - 07:13 PM.

[Harmsway]

I can't agree. The whole DAD "performance" was cheese on toast, which is physically painful to sit through watching it these days. It's like watching your Dad doing Roger Moore by way of Austin Powers, at your twenty first birthday party.

Maybe so. But it's nowhere near as painful as watching Brosnan try to be "dramatic."

At least TWINE had a consistent tone (second unit aside), mood, mise en scene and bent over backwards to serve it's story (which unfortunately as we all know was sadly not up to much).

Maybe, but it commits a bigger sin: it's completely and stunningly dull. It's like looking at dishwater.

DAD better directed than TWINE??

Yes. Considerably.

[tim partridge]

Just .

[Mr. Blofeld]

Just .

Why don't we just get you two into a new thread, GE vs. TND vs. TWINE vs. DAD?

[Judo chop]

I agree with Harms. DAD can at least be fun. I've seen better films than TWINE in Driver's Ed.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

I can't distinguish between TWINE and DAD they are just as bad as each other.
Watching Brosnan trying to be dramatic has never totally worked for me either. Things like the dropping of Sean Bean at the end of GE are fine, but the deeper (or supposedly deeper) stand alone 'fragile Bond' character scenes, where he gets emotional just seem out of place and awkward.

[Red Barchetta]

Gee...no, GE!

I've always like GE, even with it's flaws.

[Colossus]

I agree DAD is better directed than TWINE, especially in the action where there was a sense of geography and you could tell what was going down which was a relief after TWINE's murky debacle where they just gave it to 2nd unit, random camera shots galore! Also does anyone find it hilarious how every parahawk explodes like it's filled with dynamite one after the other after a bit of damage?

[007FANATIC]

GoldenEye was always a favorite of mine, and IMO the best Brosnan film. I love basically everything about it.
I know I am going to get a lot of criticism for saying what I said above. Oh, well...

[JimmyBond]

GoldenEye was always a favorite of mine, and IMO the best Brosnan film. I love basically everything about it.
I know I am going to get a lot of criticism for saying what I said above. Oh, well...

Criticism for saying what? That you consider it to be your favorite Brosnan Bond? While I dont necessarily agree with that, I know many people here do. That's like me saying I love FRWL and I know I'm going to get a lot of criticism for saying it

[Rusty Cage]

There's something that's always bothered me a bit when I watch Goldeneye. After Ourumov kills Mishkin, and Bond and Natalya are trying to escape, Bond shoots up the whole place, wiping out countless Russian troops in the process. These troops are not, strictly speaking, the bad guys in the film. Ourumov certainly is, as he is conspiring with the Janus syndicate. But the whole brigade of soldiers weren't in on it. You can argue that Bond acts in self defense, which is all fine and good, but something about it still doesn't sit well with me. Later, during the tank chase, they go out of their way to show police and others surviving the carnage.

I don't know. Just something that has always bugged me.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I've been bugged, too; how in the hell did Trevelyan managed to build up a criminal empire and staff an entire Cuban satellite station with scientists no one would notice vanishing in just nine years?

[JimmyBond]

I've been bugged, too; how in the hell did Trevelyan managed to build up a criminal empire and staff an entire Cuban satellite station with scientists one one would notice vanishing in just nine years?

It's actually much more reasonable to believe that than to believe that Graves was able to become knighted in 14 months.

[PussGal]

I'm sorry, I have sooo tried to like Brosnan as Bond but I've come to the conclusion that I just don't rate him and to be honest his films bore me. I agree that he's handsome but he has all the sex appeal of the Jonas Brothers! I'm sure he get's the tweeny crowd excited but those of us who think Bond should look like he'd actually be good in bed must turn our attention to others.. I'm looking at you Sean, Dan and Famke

[jamie00007]

Ive always liked GoldenEye, but its definately improved with age for me, mostly due to the subsequent Brosnan movies which I can barely tolerate. Looking back over the last 20 years of Bond films and GE looks like a classic compared to those.