72 replies to this topic

[Turn]

Dalton also had this very smug way of delivering certainly lines that, at least for me, really just make the moment, such as the way he says "Mhm" after Whitaker asks him if he really got rid of all that opium. Craig just hasn't got anything like that. At least not yet.

Interesting. IMO, I don't see that delivery as smug, but somewhat matter-of-fact, maybe from the shock of it being very low-key in place of what would have likely been a cheesy one-liner in the Moore days.

But that shows the depth of the performance in that it's a reading that can be interpreted in more ways than one.

My personal favorite line delivery in that scene was when he tells Whitaker that "Pickett's charge was up Cemetery Ridge, not Little Roundtop." Bond being cocky by showing off his knowledge and showing he has the upper hand (temporarily). I could easily see something like that in a Fleming passage.

[Mr. Somerset]

Dalton also had this very smug way of delivering certainly lines that, at least for me, really just make the moment, such as the way he says "Mhm" after Whitaker asks him if he really got rid of all that opium. Craig just hasn't got anything like that. At least not yet.

Interesting. IMO, I don't see that delivery as smug, but somewhat matter-of-fact, maybe from the shock of it being very low-key in place of what would have likely been a cheesy one-liner in the Moore days.

But that shows the depth of the performance in that it's a reading that can be interpreted in more ways than one.

My personal favorite line delivery in that scene was when he tells Whitaker that "Pickett's charge was up Cemetery Ridge, not Little Roundtop." Bond being cocky by showing off his knowledge and showing he has the upper hand (temporarily). I could easily see something like that in a Fleming passage.

Timothy is the man.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Dalton was definitly more of the Bond of Fleming's books, but the movies around him seemed sort of knocked together.

Craig is following in Dalton's footsteps, but now the scripting, directing, budgets etc., can now support the change.

[Revelator]

Though I liked Dalton's Bond, I used to get tired of people acclaiming Dalton's Bond as closest to Fleming and so on. Nowadays, when fanboys act if Craig represented the second coming, I tend to defend Dalton more. He is undoubtedly underrated by the public, and LTK remains the film maudit of the series, especially now that OHMSS's reputation has risen. That film, and Dalton's career, both deserve defense from the conventional wisdom that has grown around them and the tiresome triumphalism that initially greeted Brosnan and Craig. (And which subsists even on this thread)

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

That film, and Dalton's career, both deserve defense from the conventional wisdom that has grown around them and the tiresome triumphalism that initially greeted Brosnan and Craig. (And which subsists even on this thread)

Yeah they do, (although I'm not really a fan of LTK). When Dalton was around in the late 80's, the suited hero was sidelined a bit. Die Hard, Batman, Leathal Weapon and Indiana Jones, that kind of suitless action hero was popular. Bond still had his place, his popularity and his fans. TLD did good business. In the UK, as far as I remember, the public responded very well to Dalton. But in terms of rival action heroes, I think the competition at the time was the highest the series had known since its inception.
Furthermore, in the late eighties cinema attendances were tailing off in favour of renting. Video rental shops were in abundance all over the UK at that time. People were not going to the cinema like we do today. I’m pretty sure quite a lot of cinemas in the UK closed in the early nineties owing to the popularity of the rental market.

One of the key facets of Bond is being a veritable man-whore, and Dalton remains fairly monogamist. Reasoning behind this is problem because of increased awareness of AIDS or something, but who knows?

The AIDS issue is a valid point IMO. Some thought it was a downside that AIDS tuned Bond into a one woman man. Others (I think) turned their noses against the Bond character being a poor influence on the safe sex attitude at that time.

Notwithstanding if its a good or bad film, the marketing for LTK was poor and I don't think for whatever reason the studio was nurturing the series like it has done of late with Brosnan and even more with Craig. Compare numerous interviews where BB has praised Amy Pascall and Sony for their input and support for 007. Read Cubby's autobiography and he paints a more unsettled picture of studio interference during production and ever changing executives at MGM.
All these factors don't help. Sure they are not the be all and end all (and I'm not claiming they are), but I think they weighed the Dalton era down. Plus Dalton did take over from an actor who had played a role in seven films over the proceeding thirteen years, whereas Brosnan and Craig did not have that initial hurdle, (although it has to be said Dalton and Brosnan did not have the “Craig not Bond/Blonde Bond” backlash to overcome either).
I think Dalton was a great bond and a welcome approach on the character back in ‘87.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Though I liked Dalton's Bond, I used to get tired of people acclaiming Dalton's Bond as closest to Fleming and so on.

Out of curiosity, do you feel any of his predecessors came closer to portraying the character as written in the novels on screen?

The AIDS issue is a valid point IMO. Some thought it was a downside that AIDS tuned Bond into a one woman man. Others (I think) turned their noses against the Bond character being a poor influence on the safe sex attitude at that time.

I think it worked. TLD is a very romantic movie, and is all the better for not having Bond sleeping with other women after Kara is introduced.

Dalton kicks Craig's down the street. Then gives him a Chinese burn.

Only to then give him his trademark "evil" stare.
I love them both, though.

I remember reading a review for a modern action movie in a big paper and the writer said that whoever was playing the lead in movie which title I forget was "the most talented actor to star in an action movie since Timothy Dalton played James Bond in the eighties".

Edited by The Ghost Who Walks, 28 April 2009 - 08:53 PM.

[Revelator]

Out of curiosity, do you feel any of his predecessors came closer to portraying the character as written in the novels on screen?

I think Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton (and Craig) all portrayed aspects of Fleming's Bond, and often quite well. But Fleming's Bond was never a static character, and no actor has actually captured the whole character as portrayed over the space of 14 books because that would be impossible. They have all embodied aspects of the character. They are more recognizably Fleming's Bond than, say, Roger Moore's version of the character (I don't mention Brosnan, since he seems like a pastiche of Connery and Moore), which I still enjoy, but none is definitive.

[Tybre]

Out of curiosity, do you feel any of his predecessors came closer to portraying the character as written in the novels on screen?

I think Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton (and Craig) all portrayed aspects of Fleming's Bond, and often quite well. But Fleming's Bond was never a static character, and no actor has actually captured the whole character as portrayed over the space of 14 books because that would be impossible. They have all embodied aspects of the character. They are more recognizably Fleming's Bond than, say, Roger Moore's version of the character (I don't mention Brosnan, since he seems like a pastiche of Connery and Moore), which I still enjoy, but none is definitive.

True, but, at least in my opinion, Dalton and Craig embody more of those aspects compared to other actors. One also has to remember, Bond is to some extent perception as well. Some of what Fleming writes is a bit ambiguous.

[Frimmel]

I remember reading a review for a modern action movie in a big paper and the writer said that whoever was playing the lead in movie which title I forget was "the most talented actor to star in an action movie since Timothy Dalton played James Bond in the eighties".

Did they mean it as a compliment or an insult?

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Compliment.

Thinking of it, I believe it was about a film starring Angelina Jolie.

[00Twelve]

Out of curiosity, do you feel any of his predecessors came closer to portraying the character as written in the novels on screen?

I think Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton (and Craig) all portrayed aspects of Fleming's Bond, and often quite well. But Fleming's Bond was never a static character, and no actor has actually captured the whole character as portrayed over the space of 14 books because that would be impossible. They have all embodied aspects of the character. They are more recognizably Fleming's Bond than, say, Roger Moore's version of the character (I don't mention Brosnan, since he seems like a pastiche of Connery and Moore), which I still enjoy, but none is definitive.

I personally see Craig as a pretty dead on embodiment of the Bond of CR-DAF. The early Fleming Bond. The character was largely the same throughout that era of the literary canon, as was the tone.

Dalton probably captures Bond best at the end of his career, after the Blofeld ordeal. But that's just my own observation.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Out of curiosity, do you feel any of his predecessors came closer to portraying the character as written in the novels on screen?

I think Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton (and Craig) all portrayed aspects of Fleming's Bond, and often quite well. But Fleming's Bond was never a static character, and no actor has actually captured the whole character as portrayed over the space of 14 books because that would be impossible. They have all embodied aspects of the character. They are more recognizably Fleming's Bond than, say, Roger Moore's version of the character (I don't mention Brosnan, since he seems like a pastiche of Connery and Moore), which I still enjoy, but none is definitive.

I personally see Craig as a pretty dead on embodiment of the Bond of CR-DAF. The early Fleming Bond. The character was largely the same throughout that era of the literary canon, as was the tone.

Dalton probably captures Bond best at the end of his career, after the Blofeld ordeal. But that's just my own observation.

Since I've only read three Fleming novels so far (CR, LALD, MR), I don't feel I have the right to comment on the way the character developed over the years. I look forward to reading more of the books to see if I agree with you guys on this, it's certainly very interesting to read your opinions on the subject.

I envisioned Dalton in my head reading Moonraker, Craig in Live and Let Die, and a guy who looked a lot like Connery but still wasn't him in Casino Royale.

[Tybre]

Personally the person in my head changes a lot when I read the books.

Spoiler

Casino Royale - Craig
Live and Let Die - Mental image body with Roger Moore's voice
Moonraker - Aforementioned LALD Bond
Diamonds Are Forever - Same body as the last two, Sean Connery's voice
From Russia With Love - Sean Connery at the beginning and from the train onwards, but Craig during everything in Istanbul
Dr No - Timothy Dalton
Goldfinger - Different mental image body with Dalton's voice
From A View to a Kill - Craig
For Your Eyes Only - Dalton
Quantum of Solace - Dalton
Risico - Goldfinger mental image Bond
Hildebrand Rarity - Dalton
Thunderball - Entirely new mental image, body and voice
The Spy Who Loved Me - Thunderball mental image
On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Thunderball mental image body with Lazenby's voice
You Only Live Twice - Entirely new mental image, body and voice
Man With the Golden Gun - YOLT mental image during the London bits, Thunderball mental image during everything up until the arrival at the hotel, Dalton from arriving at the hotel until the end of the book (made the read sort of interesting, having three Bonds)
Octopussy - Thunderball mental image
The Living Daylights - Dalton
Property of a Lady - Dalton
007 in New York - YOLT mental image

A little OT, I know, I was responding to Ghost's closing comment.