93 replies to this topic

[Safari Suit]

By the way Safari Suit, what Mann film would you say is the best?

I would say Heat is probably his best. Admittedly, I wouldn't have said that two weeks ago as on my first viewing it left me cold, but rewatching it recently it all fell into place for me. A first rate cast, outstanding visuals, brilliant soundtrack, engaging drama and exciting action.

After that I would probably go with Manhunter, which is possibly his most accessible film, although some may have a problem with the heavy 80s style. I also loved Miami Vice although it probably helped that I'm a big fan of the TV show; in fandom and outside of it the film got a very mixed response. I personally didn't care for The Insider at all, but you probably shouldn't take my word for it as its his only film to be nominated for best picture, though I would say Heat's critical reputation has endured more.

I should be seeing Public Enemies later today, so I'll soon see if I think it's one of the really good ones

[tdalton]

By the way Safari Suit, what Mann film would you say is the best?

I would say Heat is probably his best. Admittedly, I wouldn't have said that two weeks ago as on my first viewing it left me cold, but rewatching it recently it all fell into place for me. A first rate cast, outstanding visuals, brilliant soundtrack, engaging drama and exciting action.

I would agree that Heat is Mann's best film, and I would go as far as to say that it's one of the best films that I've ever seen. It's certainly one of the best films of the past couple of decades at the very least.

[dinovelvet]

By the way Safari Suit, what Mann film would you say is the best?

I would say Heat is probably his best. Admittedly, I wouldn't have said that two weeks ago as on my first viewing it left me cold, but rewatching it recently it all fell into place for me. A first rate cast, outstanding visuals, brilliant soundtrack, engaging drama and exciting action.

After that I would probably go with Manhunter, which is possibly his most accessible film, although some may have a problem with the heavy 80s style. I also loved Miami Vice although it probably helped that I'm a big fan of the TV show; in fandom and outside of it the film got a very mixed response. I personally didn't care for The Insider at all, but you probably shouldn't take my word for it as its his only film to be nominated for best picture, though I would say Heat's critical reputation has endured more.

I should be seeing Public Enemies later today, so I'll soon see if I think it's one of the really good ones

Yeah Heat is definitely his masterpiece. In fact I think its the best crime film ever made, and is The Godfather for the modern era. Manhunter is also second for me, with some of the most stunning use of pop/rock songs I've ever heard, that wipes the floor with anyone else who tries to do the same; Scorsese, Tarantino etc.

Strong thumbs up also for The Last of the Mohicans, Miami Vice, Collateral, Thief.

Didn't like The Insider when I first saw it in the theater. In my mind I was probably expecting Heat II, and not people arguing about cigarettes for two and a half hours Must give it another watch someday.

Ali I will never see. Want to see The Keep. Seen LA Takedown which was a'ight, though now its obsolete. Public Enemies I will see this week hopefully.

[Safari Suit]

Didn't like The Insider when I first saw it in the theater. In my mind I was probably expecting Heat II, and not people arguing about cigarettes for two and a half hours Must give it another watch someday.

I just found it emotionally unengaging and notably unsuspensful. You had that one creepy moment where Crowe's family was sent a threatening fax, but that was it as far as I could recall. And what was the deal with the scene where Crowe and his wife are flown out all the way to New York to have dinner with Mike Wallace, and when she finds out he's going to do an interview with 60 Minutes she's pissed off? What on earth did she think they flew out to New York for? I guess I should give it another go one of these days, but I'm not in a hurry.

Ali I will never see. Want to see The Keep. Seen LA Takedown which was a'ight, though now its obsolete. Public Enemies I will see this week hopefully.

Heh, I bought Ali ultra-cheap about four years ago, haven't got round to watching it. Would like to see LA Takedown even though it is no doubt redundant, because I imagine it's a bit Miami Vice-ish.

If you can bear the quality The Keep is on YouTube. I mention this only because I believe it's a pretty rare film.

[Zorin Industries]

I saw PUBLIC ENEMIES yesterday.

Not great. Not by a long stretch. It spends half the film refusing to acknowledge it is not anything more than an hot/cold cat and mouse chase, and the other half clearly lamenting how the rest of the film could have not been wasted.

Bale is okay in a flimsily written role. Like Depp's DILLINGER, we learn nothing more about both characters than the posters told us beforehand. Depp is naturally striking, endearing and timeless in everything he does. He looks hot in the Gable linen pants and tache and the film refreshingly doesn't try and patronise the audience by having the production design hit us over the head with "it's 1933, but it really could be 2009". The film is definitely set in its era which saves it overall. Marion Cottilard is beautiful in a - sadly again - flimsy cliche of a role.

There is a great scene where Depp is at the picture house lamenting his lot and missing Cottilard. He watches Clark Gable share a scene with Myrna Loy and Mann makes the obvious connections between the latter and Cottilard (how they share striking visual similarities). This is when Mann lifts PUBLIC ENEMIES into something very striking and beyond its own cops and robbers milaise which does disable the film very early on. This one moment also betrays / underlines how the cinematic Chicago gangster is more relevant to Mann than the history books one. Had the film been prepared to really make those connections between Hollywood and gangsters (or certainly the fascination and fetishising of both worlds) then PUBLIC ENEMIES would easily have been one of Mann's best films. But as it is it is just a film of missed opportunities. A film whose female characters hold greater depth and interest than the male leads and a film which like all of Mann's efforts allows the machismo to run away with things.

[Tybre]

Personally I quite liked the film. It wasn't great, sure, but I will say it was the best film I've seen in cinemas this year since Watchmen. But that's not saying much. Since Watchmen the only films I've seen in the theatre are The Soloist, Wolverine, Star Trek, Transformers II, Dragonball, and Angels & Demons. So it's not exactly a shining pinnacle of cinema ventures. I think this was the best I've seen Bale, which again isn't saying much. Only other films I've seen with Bale are the Batman films, Terminator, and 3:10 to Yuma. Not counting his voice work. Still on the whole it was an enjoyable film, and certainly not a bad way to spend a Saturday night.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I've got to ask: How was Marion Cotillard's Midwestern accent?

[Zorin Industries]

I've got to ask: How was Marion Cotillard's Midwestern accent?

Didn't notice (surely the best compliment). Her character is half French anyway (as the real life figure was).

[Tybre]

I've got to ask: How was Marion Cotillard's Midwestern accent?

Not bad. There were a few places where her natural accent was coming back out, but all in all she did a good job.

[DR76]

There are very few movies I have really liked this summer. In fact, I can only think of four or five - "STATE OF PLAY", "X-MEN ORIGINS: Wolverine", "ANGELS AND DEMONS", "TERMINATOR SALVATION" and "PUBLIC ENEMIES". That's it. And I find that rather sad, considering that half of 2009 is already over.

[bond 16.05.72]

Public Enemies 2009

I'd be lying if I said I was entirely satisfied by Public Enemies. Depp is a charismatic Dillinger and the supporting cast although briefly seen are admirable, Bale is a supporting character and isn't no Vincent Hanna it lacks the magic which made Heat and The Insider so essential.

This wasn't trying to be Heat in the 30's some might have thought it was going to be and there is little plot apart from the final days of John Dillinger coupled with the brief love affair between Billie Frechette an impressive but underused Marion Cotillard.

I had no problem with the dialogue in the first 30 minutes, the sound seemed fine to me and found Mann's use of digital camera didn't jar with me at all, I found the wood shoot out impressive but not enough to make me forget Al & Bobby's epic bullet ballet from Heat though.

I applaud is attempts to not make a 30's flavoured movie but 30's movie period, to me it felt like the 30's and wasn't lacking because it didn't receive the treatment that other 30's set films are manipulated to attain the period style.

My Wife who was more disappointed than me remarked that the wood shoot out jarred for her and to her it felt like a different film.

All in all I wasn't blown away the way the roster of talent on show made me expect but with the sequels & re-boots on show this summer Public Enemies stands out.

*** 1/2

Edited by bond 16.05.72, 05 July 2009 - 07:02 PM.

[Safari Suit]

Well, colour me surprised but I loved it. For one thing I disagree with those that have called this an ugly film. Granted, occasionally there is a misguided use of shaky-cam, and there are a handful of shots where the decision to use HD instead of 35mm makes the film look slightly out of place on the big screen, but for the most part I found this to be a beautiful film with elegant period constuming and architecture brought to life with flattering cinematography. I didn't have any problems hearing the film, don't know if that means problems with earlier prints have been sorted out or that I've just got especially good hearing. I agree with Empire's comment that this film is probably the closest a film has come to looking the way the 30s actually looked (and sounded, for the gun blasts are terrifyingly loud). Blu-ray-heads are going to love checking out every thread in the clothes and every crack in the marble wall when this hits the format. But I don't want to make this sound like some kind of overly-dry pseudo-docudrama, it works as a fun, if serious-minded and somewhat demanding summer blockbuster. It's emotionally engaging, and it succeeds in making both Dillinger and Purvis come off as sympathetic at times and contemptible at others. Bale has been getting a fair amount of flack for his performance in this movie with many criticising him as wooden, I thought he was fine and on much better form than he's generally been on recently. He's not exactly a powerhouse of charisma, but then he's not supposed to be. Public Enemies has a great ending, and I came out of the film feeling I'd spent my time very well indeed. I would certainly say it was my favourite film of the summer so far (and I see little on the horizon which stands much chance of topping it), and I definitely much preferred it to Star Trek which seems to be most critc's choice for film of the summer this year.

[Harmsway]

I would certainly say it was my favourite film of the summer so far (and I see little on the horizon which stands much chance of topping it), and I definitely much preferred it to Star Trek which seems to be most critc's choice for film of the summer this year.

Given the widely different reactions, I may have to bother checking out PUBLIC ENEMIES, even though I don't feel particularly enthusiastic about it. I'm not a big Michael Mann film, and while I have time for HEAT and THE INSIDER, you won't find me too fond of anything else he's done (I loathed his recent MIAMI VICE).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if PUBLIC ENEMIES really is one of the better films the summer season has had to offer, since this summer season has been pretty meager in its offerings. But I do get some gut-level feeling that this is another hollow affair from Mann, with lots of nice style but very little soul. But maybe I'm wrong.

But even if I do like PUBLIC ENEMIES, I'm skeptical that it could top Steven Soderbergh's excellent summer release, THE GIRLFRIEND EXPERIENCE, or that it will be better than Park Chan-Wook's upcoming THIRST. And I doubt it will be as much fun as Tarantino's INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS.

[Safari Suit]

But even if I do like PUBLIC ENEMIES, I'm skeptical that it could top Steven Soderbergh's excellent summer release, THE GIRLFRIEND EXPERIENCE, or that it will be better than Park Chan-Wook's upcoming THIRST. And I doubt it will be as much fun as Tarantino's INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS.

Well, The Girlfriend Experience doesn't come out in the UK until November and Thirst doesn't even have a release date, so I'm off the hook with those two Inglourious Basterds? Could be great but I've never quite been convinced by it.

[dinovelvet]

Saw Public Enemies today, it was ING FANTASTIC!

A beautiful, action-packed epic crime saga. Definitely Michael Mann's best since Heat. "Dull?" DULL? Seriously, dodge, WOW. You are hereby sentenced to sit through Transformers five times. The gunfights were brutal, unbelievably exciting, and made for some of the most visceral scenes in a long time. The HD filming worked brilliantly, it was like you were somehow watching a colour documentary from the period.

Depp was great, but Marion Cotillard is easily Oscar-worthy here. The look on her face in the last scene is devastating and makes her a slam dunk for a best supporting actress nod. Bale? Well I could take him or leave him. He was OK, certainly better here than his one note growling performance in Terminator. Also nice to see some former Michael Mann players like John Ortiz and Stephen Lang. And the Dorff! How can we forget the Dorff, back from exile.

And yes, Safari, I'm already counting down the days until the Blu-ray. OMG!

Heh, I bought Ali ultra-cheap about four years ago, haven't got round to watching it. Would like to see LA Takedown even though it is no doubt redundant,

It's worth a look as a sort of dry run for what Heat would eventually be, but really only for hardcore Mann-ites.

PUBLIC ENEMIES sounds like absolute piffle. My boycott starts here.

"Piffle?" Because some oiks from the British press didn't like it? My God, Loomis. As a fellow card carrying member of the Miami Vice fan club, I can assure you - Public Enemies is at least equally good, probably better than.

[bondrules]

Sounds to me like MM wanted to redo Heat 1930's style.......

[Safari Suit]

Saw Public Enemies today, it was ING FANTASTIC!

A beautiful, action-packed epic crime saga. Definitely Michael Mann's best since Heat.

Finally, some company!

Though I do look forward to dodge's invective should he ever provide it.

[DamnCoffee]

I saw this today. ing horrible. I walked out.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I need to see something fairly intelligent at the cinema just to get back the brain cells that apparently died while watching Transformers 2. I hope Public Enemies is worth the ticket prize, because I will be there opening day (opening day in Norway, that is).

[DamnCoffee]

It's not. Seriously.

Wait for DVD.

[dinovelvet]

I saw this today. ing horrible. I walked out.

Well, if you walked out, then you didn't "see it", did you. Sorry it wasn't up to Transformers 2 standards for you

[DamnCoffee]

I saw this today. ing horrible. I walked out.

Well, if you walked out, then you didn't "see it", did you. Sorry it wasn't up to Transformers 2 standards for you

I saw half of it, and it was bloody horrible. it dragged and dragged. What was the deal with the audio levels aswell? They kept going up and down all the time.

Sorry, I just couldn't get into it.

[Tybre]

You know I'm a bit curious about these audio issues everyone keeps going on about. Audio was perfectly fine when I saw it. Some sort of UK only problem perhaps? Or have people elsewhere run into these issues as well?

[The Ghost Who Walks]

It's not. Seriously.

Wait for DVD.

Hm, opinions are truly mixed about this movie... Maybe I should watch Drag me to Hell instead.

Still, a gangster flick starring Batman and Edward Scissorhands can't be that bad, can it?

[Zorin Industries]

You know I'm a bit curious about these audio issues everyone keeps going on about. Audio was perfectly fine when I saw it. Some sort of UK only problem perhaps? Or have people elsewhere run into these issues as well?

I saw the film at a digital screening in Clapham, London and I had audio issues. The dialogue dipped intermittently. It could well have been deliberate.

Though the HD nature of some scenes did not fare well on the digital projection as they ended up looking like 1980's EastEnders - i.e. very low resolution.

Didn't ruin the experience of seeing the film though. It's still an under-written cat and mouse caper that only gets interesting in the final act.

[Qwerty]

I saw PUBLIC ENEMIES yesterday.

Not great. Not by a long stretch. It spends half the film refusing to acknowledge it is not anything more than an hot/cold cat and mouse chase, and the other half clearly lamenting how the rest of the film could have not been wasted.

This perfectly sums up my thoughts about the film. Was incredibly disappointed by it and the two-and-a-half hour storyline definitely didn't help the matter.

[Mr. Blofeld]

You know I'm a bit curious about these audio issues everyone keeps going on about. Audio was perfectly fine when I saw it. Some sort of UK only problem perhaps? Or have people elsewhere run into these issues as well?

I saw the film at a digital screening in Clapham, London and I had audio issues. The dialogue dipped intermittently. It could well have been deliberate.

Though the HD nature of some scenes did not fare well on the digital projection as they ended up looking like 1980's EastEnders - i.e. very low resolution.

Well, that's Michael Mann for you; the man's an idiot when it comes to these things.

[Safari Suit]

He was extremely influential in defining the popular aesthetic of an entire decade* and has made some of the best looking films ever like Heat but whatever.

*Please no one bother with a comment like "yeah, but that decade was the 80s lolz!!!"

[Zorin Industries]

He was extremely influential in defining the popular aesthetic of an entire decade* and has made some of the best looking films ever like Heat but whatever.

*Please no one bother with a comment like "yeah, but that decade was the 80s lolz!!!"

"Best looking" doesn't always mean best films. I find his work incredibly hard to get into. He loads his films with such narrowed machismo that it sometimes feels unless you were on the shoot you are not allowed in. Granted, PUBLIC ENEMIES is a film of his I liked a lot more than usual, but it is not even style over substance. It's style over style - which tends to create a very hollow end product.

[Safari Suit]

He was extremely influential in defining the popular aesthetic of an entire decade* and has made some of the best looking films ever like Heat but whatever.

*Please no one bother with a comment like "yeah, but that decade was the 80s lolz!!!"

"Best looking" doesn't always mean best films. I find his work incredibly hard to get into. He loads his films with such narrowed machismo that it sometimes feels unless you were on the shoot you are not allowed in. Granted, PUBLIC ENEMIES is a film of his I liked a lot more than usual, but it is not even style over substance. It's style over style - which tends to create a very hollow end product.

That is fair enough, and I don't even entirely disagree with you; some of his films left me a little cold on my first viewing, and The Insider left me so cold I'm unsure about whether I'll ever give it a second. But I think to say "he's a moron when it comes to these things" as Mr. Blofeld when some of his visual concepts left an indelible mark on popular culture is not just disagreable but plain inaccurate.