152 replies to this topic

[deth]

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

I mean, I love them as much as the next guy (hence why I'm here), but you gotta keep things in perspective.

[jaguar007]

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

I mean, I love them as much as the next guy (hence why I'm here), but you gotta keep things in perspective.

Are you saying that a popcorn flick cannot also be a brillint film? Star Wars and Raiders of The Lost Ark were also popcorn films that were nominated for Best Picture Oscars. Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

[HildebrandRarity]

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

I mean, I love them as much as the next guy (hence why I'm here), but you gotta keep things in perspective.

So tell us...what's the perspective?

[Mr. Blofeld]

Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

Fans of Woody Allen and Vangelis, that's who...

[danslittlefinger]

Craig looked better than in 2007. Besides, it was good for him to present with Sarah Jessica parker, because Nicole Kidman made him look like Nick Nack

I just spat out my coffee at that one. SJP was chosen for three reasons, uh shorter than he yes and the other two were hoisted into that dress. God love him, he was trying VERY hard not to look.



I nicked the first pic and idea from Dtd, interesting to look at isnt it?

Edited by danslittlefinger, 24 February 2009 - 10:29 PM.

[deth]

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

I mean, I love them as much as the next guy (hence why I'm here), but you gotta keep things in perspective.

Are you saying that a popcorn flick cannot also be a brillint film? Star Wars and Raiders of The Lost Ark were also popcorn films that were nominated for Best Picture Oscars. Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

As most people are aware, what the Academy decides to nominate is not always a reflection of true value.

THey can be brilliant films... but will never pass the superficial. They provide a thrill, but don't explore much further. I enjoy watching them, but I'm not deluded enough to think I'm watching a quality film like well... Annie Hall say.

[eddychaput]

I liked The Departed a lot. It had some crafty dialogue and some excellent scenes with tension. The entire theme of going under cover and covering your bases was really entertaining I felt. I liked the plot with Matt Damon going undercover and falling for the psychiatrist who worked for the police. The acting was great as well. I'm a little surprised to read on the boards here that so many people loathed it.

[jaguar007]

I enjoy watching them, but I'm not deluded enough to think I'm watching a quality film like well... Annie Hall say.

or Titanic

[DaltonCraig]

It's not really about 007 flicks...

The Oscars have been a joke for some time now. They are more about boosting films with "a certain special message" instead of awarding the best films of the year.

Edited by DaltonCraig, 25 February 2009 - 05:12 AM.

[deth]

I enjoy watching them, but I'm not deluded enough to think I'm watching a quality film like well... Annie Hall say.

or Titanic

indeed.

[Zorin Industries]

Well, THE DEPARTED and CASINO ROYALE were both better than SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE anyway. What a great year 2006 must have been, compared to 2008...

I disagree. As a solid film narrative, both SLUMDOG and THE DEPARTED are vastly superior to CASINO ROYALE. Just because it is a superior Bond film doesn't make it a Best Picture winner.

[Vauxhall]

Well, THE DEPARTED and CASINO ROYALE were both better than SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE anyway. What a great year 2006 must have been, compared to 2008...

I disagree. As a solid film narrative, both SLUMDOG and THE DEPARTED are vastly superior to CASINO ROYALE. Just because it is a superior Bond film doesn't make it a Best Picture winner.

I certainly don't think CASINO ROYALE should have won Best Picture. My previous post was more of a statement of my apathy towards SLUMDOG than anything else.

[Zorin Industries]

Well, THE DEPARTED and CASINO ROYALE were both better than SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE anyway. What a great year 2006 must have been, compared to 2008...

I disagree. As a solid film narrative, both SLUMDOG and THE DEPARTED are vastly superior to CASINO ROYALE. Just because it is a superior Bond film doesn't make it a Best Picture winner.

I certainly don't think CASINO ROYALE should have won Best Picture. My previous post was more of a statement of my apathy towards SLUMDOG than anything else.

I do think MILK is the better film of that nominees shortlist. FROST NIXON is without any edge to it and very much a Ron Howard film. FORREST BUTTON is just that and THE READER I haven't seen. SLUMDOG is a great film. Very solid. Very well made. It's certainly better directed than it is written and I did find it a tad too reverential to Millionaire - which is amplified when you realise the company that makes the show made the film too.

[Cabainus]

I disagree. As a solid film narrative, both SLUMDOG and THE DEPARTED are vastly superior to CASINO ROYALE. Just because it is a superior Bond film doesn't make it a Best Picture winner.

Couldn't agree more

[Safari Suit]

Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

Maybe it's just me but I think you've picked two pretty bad examples. Annie Hall is Woody Allen's most famous movie and I can't think there are many people who wouldn't have a particular image come into their head whenever Chariots of Fire is mentioned. True, slow motion running and Vangelis' famous tune are probably all most people know of the film, but that's surely more than can be said of most movies that are more than a quarter-century old.

Besides, what does it matter at the end of the day? Do you really need a bunch of people you've never met to tell you whether or not Casino Royale was among the five best movies of 2006?

[dee-bee-five]

The Oscars, which I loathe along with every other awards ceremony - if only because it's absurd to pit one creative work against another - is all about marketing Hollywood. I have nothing against celebs donning themselves up to slap each other on the back for the amusement of windowlickers lining the red carpet. And at least it gives the fashion hacks something to write about at this time of year. But let's not delude ourselves into believing the whole circus has anything to do with art.

[Loomis]

Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

Maybe it's just me but I think you've picked two pretty bad examples. Annie Hall is Woody Allen's most famous movie and I can't think there are many people who wouldn't have a particular image come into their head whenever Chariots of Fire is mentioned.

Exactly. But here's a forgotten Best Picture winner: ORDINARY PEOPLE (the first Best Picture of the '80s). And how many people remember the Best Picture wins for TERMS OF ENDEARMENT and OUT OF AFRICA?

[Loomis]

SLUMDOG is a great film. Very solid. Very well made. It's certainly better directed than it is written

I disagree. I actually thought it had a superb script - although I'm not a screenwriter. A really good, gripping story, well told.

As for Boyle's direction, I found it overly flashy. Had I directed the film (sorry, I'm playing armchair fanboy moviemaker! ), I'd have really cut back on the fast-cut Tony Scottisms and "Hey! Look at The Director's Vision™!"-type visuals, and had all the scenes in stark B&W apart from the TV show scenes, to treat slum life more soberly (not that I agree with these criticisms, but SLUMDOG has been slammed as "poverty pørn") and better point up the contrast between our hero's miserable ordinary life and the escapist glitz of the TV show.

But that's just me. In any case, I still love SLUMDOG, have seen it twice, and am delighted it won Best Picture. In addition, I'd love Danny Boyle to direct BOND 23, although I know that he won't.

I did find it a tad too reverential to Millionaire - which is amplified when you realise the company that makes the show made the film too.

Reverential? Hardly. The show's host (and owner?) is portrayed as a grade A who attempts to rig the outcome, and not only that but a man who has people tortured by the police. If this is reverential, I shudder to think what a disrespectful portrayal would be like!

[HildebrandRarity]

Well, THE DEPARTED and CASINO ROYALE were both better than SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE anyway. What a great year 2006 must have been, compared to 2008...

I disagree. As a solid film narrative, both SLUMDOG and THE DEPARTED are vastly superior to CASINO ROYALE. Just because it is a superior Bond film doesn't make it a Best Picture winner.

Whateverrr! Let's re-write history and tell everyone that The Departed was highly acclaimed on release and that Casino Royale was loathed by the critics in 2006. Let's lie to make a point. Solid narrative film my bumm...They felt ing sorry for the previously jilted director. Period. So, Casino Royale was praised only because it was a better Bond film than the majority that came before it? Is that why the BAFTAs nominated it?

Yes, let's lie and reverse the numbers and tell the planet that The Departed was better than Casino Royale.

[Loomis]

Let's re-write history and tell everyone that The Departed was highly acclaimed on release

Erm, it was. I loathe THE DEPARTED - I find it a pretentious, empty and nauseating affair that adds absolutely nothing to the much tighter and more stylish Hong Kong film it's a remake of. I think CASINO ROYALE is vastly superior, but, still, the truth is that THE DEPARTED was highly acclaimed on release.

So, Casino Royale was praised only because it was a better Bond film than the majority that came before it? Is that why the BAFTAs nominated it?

Probably. The BAFTAs are every bit as predictable, political and shallow as the Oscars. In both cases, it's very rarely a surprise who wins.

[Zorin Industries]

SLUMDOG is a great film. Very solid. Very well made. It's certainly better directed than it is written

I disagree. I actually thought it had a superb script - although I'm not a screenwriter. A really good, gripping story, well told.

As for Boyle's direction, I found it overly flashy. Had I directed the film (sorry, I'm playing armchair fanboy moviemaker! ), I'd have really cut back on the fast-cut Tony Scottisms and "Hey! Look at The Director's Vision™!"-type visuals, and had all the scenes in stark B&W apart from the TV show scenes, to treat slum life more soberly (not that I agree with these criticisms, but SLUMDOG has been slammed as "poverty pørn") and better point up the contrast between our hero's miserable ordinary life and the escapist glitz of the TV show.

But that's just me. In any case, I still love SLUMDOG, have seen it twice, and am delighted it won Best Picture. In addition, I'd love Danny Boyle to direct BOND 23, although I know that he won't.

I did find it a tad too reverential to Millionaire - which is amplified when you realise the company that makes the show made the film too.

Reverential? Hardly. The show's host (and owner?) is portrayed as a grade A who attempts to rig the outcome, and not only that but a man who has people tortured by the police. If this is reverential, I shudder to think what a disrespectful portrayal would be like!

These are just my thoughts on what you have said....


Surely making the slum scenes black and white and the quiz scenes in colour misses the point? If you don't want to dwell on the poor people of India then shooting them via a colonial-esque black and white will actually have the opposite effect. It would put a cinematic gauze over everything and make the project the "feel good film" for the MAMMA MIA crowds that SLUMDOG is not like at all (despite the ad campaigns since January).

Whilst I know what you are saying, the rapid cuts and reportage camerawork are hardly Tony Scott when you consider similiar films like CITY OF GOD, AMORES PERROS and Y TU MAMA TAMBIEN tell their stories in that style. These are films which tap into a world view of cinema - one that suggests real people through real camerawork. If you shoot everything with dollies, tracks and helicopter shots via steadicam the resulting film positions the audience in that movie world, rather than a suggested reality of real people, real kids, real streets, real struggles and real jeopardy.

And the quiz (and winning of it) is not Road to Oz the main character is led to believe so having that only in colour would not work either. Also black and white in a colour film is a device of flashback which distances us and the characters from the present. In the case of SLUMDOG the past feeds dramatically into the present - it fuels it, makes comments on it and requires it for the story to hold and reach its conclusions.

The quiz master may be a wanker. But the show and its promises of changing your life is very pro-Celador and their product. That's not a criticism of them or SLUMDOG. Just an observation.

But SLUMDOG deserved the Oscars. Other films are better, stronger films (MILK for starters), but it was good to see such a very American story set in a non-American world take on the Academy's usual parade of Holocaust, comebacks and adaptations.

[HildebrandRarity]

Let's re-write history and tell everyone that The Departed was highly acclaimed on release

Erm, it was. I loathe THE DEPARTED - I find it a pretentious, empty and nauseating affair that adds absolutely nothing to the much tighter and more stylish Hong Kong film it's a remake of. I think CASINO ROYALE is vastly superior, but, still, the truth is that THE DEPARTED was highly acclaimed on release.

NO!

That's re-writing history. I saw the reviews. All the reviews go into one big pot on Rottentomatoes...and Departed was only at 76 and CR was 94! (they changed the numbers after it's oscar win.)

So, more lies!

I remember the numbers/reviews vividly...and was surprised that a movie with such low review scores could score an oscar while a movie so acclaimed didn't even get nominated! That's why I said kudos to Craig for leaving the stench of the oscars right after he made his presentations.

I saw The Departed on opening day...and I liked it so it's not as if I hate the movie. Having said that, Blood Diamond was the better of the two DiCaprio movies during that season, and Casino Royale blew them both out of the water.

[Loomis]

Let's re-write history and tell everyone that The Departed was highly acclaimed on release

Erm, it was. I loathe THE DEPARTED - I find it a pretentious, empty and nauseating affair that adds absolutely nothing to the much tighter and more stylish Hong Kong film it's a remake of. I think CASINO ROYALE is vastly superior, but, still, the truth is that THE DEPARTED was highly acclaimed on release.

NO!

That's re-writing history. I saw the reviews. All the reviews go into one big pot on Rottentomatoes...and Departed was only at 76 and CR was 94! (they changed the numbers after it's oscar win.)

So, more lies!

Nope. Just because CASINO ROYALE had more good reviews, it doesn't mean that THE DEPARTED was a critical washout. It was highly acclaimed on release, and it's neither here nor there if other films did even better with reviewers.

You're trying to give the impression that THE DEPARTED was panned by critics, which is absolutely not true. Quite the reverse, actually.

[Loomis]

Surely making the slum scenes black and white and the quiz scenes in colour misses the point? If you don't want to dwell on the poor people of India then shooting them via a colonial-esque black and white will actually have the opposite effect.

Since when has black-and-white been "colonial"? Have you seen Ray's Apu trilogy? Is its B&W distancing in your eyes, or does it preserve a timeless document of the poor people of India? Have you seen Shinji Aoyama's EUREKA? Does its lack of colour (apart from at one very key moment) make you feel that the director is holding his characters at arm's length?

It would put a cinematic gauze over everything and make the project the "feel good film" for the MAMMA MIA crowds that SLUMDOG is not like at all (despite the ad campaigns since January).

There's already a cinematic gauze over everything. And, yes, SLUMDOG is a feelgood film. Not that there's anything wrong with that - some of my favourite films are feelgood films. I love feelgood films. Why should it be a term of abuse? But SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE is much closer to ROCKY than to PATHER PANCHALI or SALAAM BOMBAY!, and let's not pretend otherwise.

Whilst I know what you are saying, the rapid cuts and reportage camerawork are hardly Tony Scott when you consider similiar films like CITY OF GOD, AMORES PERROS and Y TU MAMA TAMBIEN tell their stories in that style.

Of the films you mention, I've seen only CITY OF GOD, but I did find its visual style highly distracting.

Also black and white in a colour film is a device of flashback which distances us and the characters from the present.

Usually, yes, but it doesn't always have to be so. You're being dogmatic.

The quiz master may be a wanker. But the show and its promises of changing your life is very pro-Celador and their product. That's not a criticism of them or SLUMDOG. Just an observation.

You say it's not a criticism, but then you also said you found it "a tad too reverential". In any case, the film could hardly have been made without the company's cooperation. Sure, I guess they could have cooked up a fictitious TV show, but it wouldn't have had the same impact.

[Zorin Industries]

You say it's not a criticism, but then you also said you found it "a tad too reverential". In any case, the film could hardly have been made without the company's cooperation. Sure, I guess they could have cooked up a fictitious TV show, but it wouldn't have had the same impact.

I stand by what I said, Loomis.

Maybe what I meant by the "colonial" comment is that filming SLUMDOG in black and white would imply an Indian past rather than a very pressing present - a past that is haunted by colonial and empirical interference.

I believe the original book had a fictitious quiz show (I could be wrong). I do believe the film is very reverential to the show, but that is not a problem when you are aware of who made it and why. It would be interesting to see what Jasper Carrot and his colleagues produce as their next film.

Re CITY OF GOD.... you have to remember that just because a film is visually distracting doesn't make it artistically wrong. Look at that A QUANTUM OF THE SOLACE film that came out last year.

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

Agreed!

[dee-bee-five]

It's amusing how some Bond fans have deluded themselves into believing that the Bond films are anything more than popcorn flicks...

Agreed!

To misquote Noel Coward, I'm not sure I would want the Bond films to be "significant"...

And I seem to be the only person in the world who has absolutely no desire to see Slumdog Millionaire... Heigh ho...

[Loomis]

Re CITY OF GOD.... you have to remember that just because a film is visually distracting doesn't make it artistically wrong. Look at that A QUANTUM OF THE SOLACE film that came out last year.

Well, film is a visual medium or it is nothing at all. The word "distracting" enters my mind only when I feel that the visuals are about to break away from the story rather than serve it. I had no such problem with QUANTUM OF SOLACE, which is a great Bond film, a visual feast, and in places a very compelling and moderately risk-taking drama in its own right.

Although it's not as good as CASINO ROYALE.

[Cabainus]

Well, film is a visual medium or it is nothing at all. The word "distracting" enters my mind only when I feel that the visuals are about to break away from the story rather than serve it. I had no such problem with QUANTUM OF SOLACE, which is a great Bond film, a visual feast, and in places a very compelling and moderately risk-taking drama in its own right.

Although it's not as good as CASINO ROYALE.

Well not according to the "RottenTomatoes theory" posted further up this thread

CR = 94%
QOS = 65%

[deth]

guys you can't go by the Rottentomatoes theory. After all that places CR as one of the best films of ALL TIME in ANY genre. Really? You do realize that critics approach different films from a different scale right? In the action/thriller genre, they places CR very high. However that genre doesn't rank very high in the overall scale of quality films.

[jaguar007]

Everyone remembers those films but who talks about Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire these days?

Maybe it's just me but I think you've picked two pretty bad examples. Annie Hall is Woody Allen's most famous movie and I can't think there are many people who wouldn't have a particular image come into their head whenever Chariots of Fire is mentioned. True, slow motion running and Vangelis' famous tune are probably all most people know of the film, but that's surely more than can be said of most movies that are more than a quarter-century old.

The reason I mentioned Annie Hall and Chariots of Fire is because those were the two movies that won Best Picture up against Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Two "popcorn" films that happen to be two of the most significant films ever made and influenced a change in the way movies were made. A similar case can be made for Forest Gump winning over Pulp Fiction.