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[Willowhugger]

http://img.dailymail...807_468x537.jpg

For me, I actually like the ambiance of The Man with the Golden Gun more than anything else. The benefits of the Man with the Golden Gun is simply the ambiance. One of the biggest flaws in the current Bond movies is that they rarely feel like they're taking place in a foreign country. Of course, QOS, manages to avoid this but just barely with Bolivia and Haiti. We spend like three seconds in Austria and Italy so there's not much point to even going to these places.

The benefits of the Man with the Golden Gun is that they successfully show Bond in the Orient and it coats the film. Plus, the plot of the film is still down to Earth even if the Science Fiction Maguffin exists. Forget the Laser Gun that shows up prominantly in the movie, the fact is that it's unimportant. This is about a showdown between 007 and his criminal counterpart.

The best part of the duel really is also that it's completely unnecessary too. At this point, Bond has realized that Scaramanga hasn't been hired by anybody to kill him. Scaramanga also bears no ill will to either the British service or Bond in particular. Scaramanga's mistress was the one who wanted Bond to kill her and aside from some sexual advances, our hero owes her nothing. Headquarters might want Bond to acquire the device by killing Scaramanga and to avenge the late 00 that he killed but they might also be willing to negotiate with him.

Instead, this is personal for both of them. Bond wants to kill Scaramanga for killing a fellow agent, despite it being just a business arrangement for him, but I think he's also offended by the comparisons that Fracisco has made between them. In fact, the two are decidedly similiar. While Bond may think he'd never murder a woman who was his mistress. Well, to be frank, he's already done it twice by this point in his Sean Connery persona (YOLT and TB) and will do it again. Scaramanga killing Andrea was just him terminating someone plotting his death.

Bond realizes he takes just a little too much glee in his murders and that with sufficient motivation to leave the Service, he might well end up going freelance like Scaramanga. At that point, what would really seperate the two of them? It's a sobering realization for Roger Moore's Bond and one that we actually see play across Roger's performance. On Scaramanga's level, well it's The Most Dangerous Game and killing Bond will cement him as the world's greatest assassin forever. There's also a surprisingly well done bit of characterization that Scaramanga has a death wish.

There's no point to Scaramanga's existence as a contract killer and he has no higher existence than to kill for money until he is killed. As such, Nick Nack's attempts to murder him are ones that he seems just as disappointed in the failure of as anyone else. While we never see a look of anything but shock before his his death, one has to think that Bond's execution of him from behind (a humiliating death for Scaramanga) is relieving in some way.

I also like Hai Fat for numerous reasons, not the least bit being the fact that he's a subversion of traditional Bond villains. Hai Fat is a typical evil businessman who has an army of thugs working for him and a sexy girl that is attracted to Bond from the outset. He THINKS Scaramanga is his henchmen and in another movie with a different title, we'd certainly be fooled into thinking Hai Fat is actually this movies version of Goldfinger with Scaramanga being closer to Oddjob. What this movie does well in his relationship to Francisco is set up the fact that it takes more to make a Bond villain than a lot of money and some thugs. One needs to be genuinely terrifying and command the loyalty of one's underlings. Hai Fat doesn't terrify and thus is dispatched easily enough by his Dragon (Scaramanga).

The character of Mary Goodnight is disposable really and it's strange that I think the most memorable thing about her is the fact that (even as an adolescent) I thought there was serious subtext that she'd already become Scaramanga's new mistress by the time that Bond had come to rescue her. She certainly seems content enough to be there on his island and if Scaramanga is the darker side of Bond then he might well have charmed her into bed by the time that Roger Moore's character arrived. Personally, I rather like the idea that Scaramanga thought it appropriate "tit for tat" that Bond stole one of his women so he'll do the same in return. I also like the idea that Goodnight has a darker side that we only have hinted at that she's not adverse to being the expensive kept woman of a multi-millionaire assassin.

Maud Adams is better as Octopussy but that's really insulting with high praise. Her character here is still profoundly sexy and also a Fleming Broken Bird. Her hatred and revulsion for Scaramanga is something that he certainly senses when she's toweling him off and he's clearly tired of her as well. Honestly, they come off as a married couple in many respects. The fact that she is the one who is trying to seduce Bond into murdering Scaramanga is what's the heart of the plot. She has nothing to offer him but her body and that's the currency Bond speaks in anyway. Her ghost hangs over the duel with Scaramanga and Bond even as it doesn't really take much for either of them to kill.

So yes, TMWTGG ranks very highly on my list of Bond films.

[Mr. Blofeld]

It still has too many stupid moments, you know.

I think what you're suggesting is what Tom Mankewicz wanted to put on screen, but Guy Hamilton's direction ruins everything.

[staveoffzombies]

It's basically a weird mishmash of serious and silly Bond...with the silliness winning out.

Still, a great villain, a good Moore performance, and an cool climax make it a good Bond film in my book.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

I have always liked it, perfect for winter saturday afternoon watching IMO!
When the PTS starts on the island you are transported immediately into another world.

[Loomis]

Willowhugger, you are a genius.

Now, admittedly, I'm only saying that because THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is my favourite Bond film, but, seriously, it's great to see a Bond fan who "gets" this much-maligned and misunderstood gem of a movie.

A movie, BTW, that features far more "Fleming" than is usually assumed to be the case. As I try to explain in the following thread:

http://debrief.comma...?showtopic=8630

For me, I actually like the ambiance of The Man with the Golden Gun more than anything else. The benefits of the Man with the Golden Gun is simply the ambiance. One of the biggest flaws in the current Bond movies is that they rarely feel like they're taking place in a foreign country. Of course, QOS, manages to avoid this but just barely with Bolivia and Haiti. We spend like three seconds in Austria and Italy so there's not much point to even going to these places.

The benefits of the Man with the Golden Gun is that they successfully show Bond in the Orient and it coats the film.

Very true. For me, it's the last of the Bond flicks to be truly drenched in that wonderful old-time "travelogue" feel. You really are there with Bond in the Far East, and it's an intoxicating aspect that's been sadly missing from the series for ages. I presume the filmmakers are under the misguided impression that every Tom, Dick and Harry travels the world constantly these days and that consequently no one finds anywhere "exotic" any more. We therefore only want to see car chases, explosions and the like, and don't care where they're set or how the setting is captured (or recreated) on film. A ludicrous idea, but there we are.

A former member of CBn, Jaelle, once wrote something that's stuck in my mind ever since (in response to the age-old complaint that THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN somehow feels small, cramped, cheap and basically not like a proper Bond outing), and I'll quote it: For me (THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN) feels like a very cinematic epic, strikingly beautiful. There are moments -- like the opening one on the beach -- where it almost feels ethereal.

And to quote another CBner (Mister Asterix): I think Nick Nack is the most brilliantly written non-Fleming hench. I simply love the way you are never sure whether he is out for himself and because of that a potential ally of Bond, or if he is loyal to Scaramanga and only putting on an act to trap Bond. It is brilliant. And Herve Villechaize plays the role to perfection.

As for the rest of your post, Willowhugger, all I can say is that you make a lot of brilliant, thought-provoking points. Like I say, you "get" this wonderful Bond film, and it's great to see someone championing what's commonly regarded as one of the worst of the series if not the worst.

[Willowhugger]

Now, admittedly, I'm only saying that because THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is my favourite Bond film, but, seriously, it's great to see a Bond fan who "gets" this much-maligned and misunderstood gem of a movie.

The Man with the Golden Gun I personally think is the closest to the Fleming that was than the Fleming that's idealized. In many ways, From Russia with Love and Goldfinger are improvements upon the work by Ian. They take all that's good about the novel and leave behind the wonderful writer's many many many quirks (like serving Oddjob a cat). Ian is a higher level than a Pulp writer but its important to think of his writings as, essentially, international Detective fiction to some degree.

The movie is certainly flawed but it is a work that is strongly coated in the weird ambiance that makes Bond's world so effective. I always think that this is one of the last movies that feels like it takes place in a slightly skewered reality like the kind that Fleming wrote of (with Mister Big's gray skin and Largo's ludicrously oversized hands). Scaramanga is the last of the genuine grotesques, despite the occasional nods to physical deformity. He's certainly more urbane and sophisticated than most of Fleming's antagonists in the movie but that only makes the Bond comparison all the more appalling in some ways.

One would think that the Fleming Bond who got along so well with Kerim Bay and Draco might have genuinely liked this version of Scaramanga and yet nevertheless have decided to kill him in cold blood.

Very true. For me, it's the last of the Bond flicks to be truly drenched in that wonderful old-time "travelogue" feel. You really are there with Bond in the Far East, and it's an intoxicating aspect that's been sadly missing from the series for ages. I presume the filmmakers are under the misguided impression that every Tom, Dick and Harry travels the world constantly these days and that consequently no one finds anywhere "exotic" any more. We therefore only want to see car chases, explosions and the like, and don't care where they're set or how the setting is captured (or recreated) on film. A ludicrous idea, but there we are.

Yes, I especially note it's silly since so much of the world has changed since the first pictures handle them. There's plenty of places to revisit that haven't been handled before. Bond still travels to places like Vietnam (TND) but there's really nothing he does there except run through a marketplace before he leaves and visit the rather ludicrous model of Elliot Carver's building (does he employ all of Saigon?)

As for the rest of your post, Willowhugger, all I can say is that you make a lot of brilliant, thought-provoking points. Like I say, you "get" this wonderful Bond film, and it's great to see someone championing what's commonly regarded as one of the worst of the series if not the worst.

Thank you, I appreciate the comments.

And to quote another CBner (Mister Asterix): I think Nick Nack is the most brilliantly written non-Fleming hench. I simply love the way you are never sure whether he is out for himself and because of that a potential ally of Bond, or if he is loyal to Scaramanga and only putting on an act to trap Bond. It is brilliant. And Herve Villechaize plays the role to perfection.

Despite how much flak that Nick Nack takes, he's another character that has more going on than people realize. He and Scaramanga are genuinely friends from what we see of them. Indeed, he's the only friend that Scaramanga has. However, I never get the impression he's anything less than sincere in his attempts to murder his "master." They're two characters that speak the same language of murder and intrigue. Like Scaramanga, Nick Nack is genuinely evil and out for Number One that he plots the death of his host. However, he's also not foolish enough to do it outside of the rules that Fracisco has established. When he attacks Bond, it is as much for costing him his inheritance as it is to avenge Scaramanga.

Really, I expected more controversy over my statements over Mary Goodnight. I would have expected more people to object to my interpretation over her appearance at Scaramanga's island and the subtext over the scene.

[Mr_Wint]

I agree that the atmosphere is fantastic in TMWTGG. There's a genuine Bond-feel to the whole film and it's not just the locations; Hamilton's directing, the writing, Barrys music and the set design all contribute.

[Loomis]

Really, I expected more controversy over my statements over Mary Goodnight. I would have expected more people to object to my interpretation over her appearance at Scaramanga's island and the subtext over the scene.

I guess it's something I always noticed on a subconscious level. Which means, of course, that I never really noticed it until I read your post (which marked the very first time that I ever saw this particular theory aired). But I agree with you.

One of the delicious things about THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is that, once you scratch below the surface a little (as you do so well in this thread), you find that all of the main characters are ultimately in it for themselves and driven by very selfish motivations: Scaramanga, Nick Nack, Goodnight, Andrea and even good old Bond. (As you say, "Bond wants to kill Scaramanga for killing a fellow agent, despite it being just a business arrangement for him, but I think he's also offended by the comparisons that Fracisco has made between them ... Bond realizes he takes just a little too much glee in his murders and that with sufficient motivation to leave the Service, he might well end up going freelance like Scaramanga. At that point, what would really seperate the two of them?")

Really, no character emerges with much credit from THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. Which is, of course, one of the splendid, subversive things about this movie.

One day, THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN will gets its due. One day.

[Safari Suit]

I agree there's a dark heart beating at TMWTGG's centre. A lot of people dismiss that notion because of its strong campy overtones, but camp can be dark (and dark can be camp) and it actually just serves to make the film all the more twisted, and like DAF there's a distinctly kinky vibe in places. Goodnight is, if nothing else, an astoundingly "politically incorrect" (whatever that means) character, something which Bond fans have been known to revel in, but of course it desecrates the holy Fleming and blah blah blah... IMO TMWTGG isn't one of the more successful entries in the franchise, but it is one of the most interesting, and in many ways those two opinions are correlated.

[Willowhugger]

I guess it's something I always noticed on a subconscious level. Which means, of course, that I never really noticed it until I read your post (which marked the very first time that I ever saw this particular theory aired). But I agree with you.

Goodnight seems to be a fairly innocent character really, so it seems like an outrageous claim to make but remove the comedic undertones and it's as you say; there's a substantial amount of darkness to the film.

As silly a Maguffin as the Solex is, the fact is that James Bond takes a paid for kill contract against Scaramanga for it. As soon as Andrea Anders was willing to turn it over, James was happy to kill Scaramanga.

The idea that Mary Goodnight not remotely interested in the fact that Scaramanga is a hit man but merely the dash and glamour that marks James Bond (and which Fracisco shares) is a valid reading I think that makes the whole thing even more seemly than it is.

I agree there's a dark heart beating at TMWTGG's centre. A lot of people dismiss that notion because of its strong campy overtones, but camp can be dark (and dark can be camp) and it actually just serves to make the film all the more twisted, and like DAF there's a distinctly kinky vibe in places. Goodnight is, if nothing else, an astoundingly "politically incorrect" (whatever that means) character, something which Bond fans have been known to revel in, but of course it desecrates the holy Fleming and blah blah blah... IMO TMWTGG isn't one of the more successful entries in the franchise, but it is one of the most interesting, and in many ways those two opinions are correlated.

Ironically, Mary Goodnight's best scene is undoubtedly just before she gets unceremoniously shoved in the closet. Roger Moore happily confronts her with the kinkiness of an affair that will be no strings attached for either of them and she is clearly tempted but gives him the brush-off. It's a remarkably frank treatment of the sometimes juvenile nature of sexuality in the Bond movie and it's somewhat ruined by Bond's giving her the shove off.

[Loomis]

Ironically, Mary Goodnight's best scene is undoubtedly just before she gets unceremoniously shoved in the closet. Roger Moore happily confronts her with the kinkiness of an affair that will be no strings attached for either of them and she is clearly tempted but gives him the brush-off.

That's such a brilliant scene (and also has that wonderful travelogue atmosphere, thanks to the Thai dancers in the background). Really points up the darkness - shabbiness, even - of Moore's Bond, as do a couple of other bits elsewhere in the film.

[rogerbrett007]

http://statuscut.blo...6b0918f514b423f

[AStupidPoliceman]

The Man With the Golden Gun was instantly my favorite of Moore's films, and has remained so over the years. I believe the reason to be that I enjoy the campy nature of the movie, even get a laugh out of it here-and-there instead of grinning and bearing it. For me, those films are Octopussy and Moonraker: just grin and bear it. Not only can I enjoy the lighter moments, I find Moore to come off rather BA. I remember watching it back-to-back with Live and Let Die, and the change in the character overall was impressive. Moore seems impatient, determined, and cruel yet delightfully charming. As mentioned by others, the scene where he slaps Anders and then raises his hand to strike her another blow after nearly breaking her arm is, to me, the toughest Moore ever comes off in any of his films. The verbal sparring with Scaramanga at lunch is also excellent, and when taken to "school" I love how he kicks his first advisary in the face instead of fighting like a gentleman.

Showing Moore as more of a BAMF instead of a proper English gentleman is ultimately why I enjoy this film so much. As with all other Bond films, there are some silly moments, and I can understand how they might seriously detract from the film for other viewers. I suppose those silly moments in TMWTGG are, to me, tolerable or enjoyable. Tarzan yell and clown suit in Octopussy? California Girls in For Your Eyes Only? Rousing cavalry song as the van being driven across the desert in The Spy Who Loved Me? Those are the unforgivable moments for me. By making Moore tougher in this film. I find I'm on his side, rooting for him through the course of the film. A bit childish, I admit, but watching TMWTGG recently I caught myself watching a fight scene and shouting "Get 'em Roger!" As I think that's rather telling of why I enjoy it so much, I'm invested in Bond and in him succeeding.

Is JW Pepper really necessary? Probably not. Is Goodnight much more than a complacent piece of eye-candy? Not really. Is a flying car ridiculous? You bet. However, it's still a Bond feature, not a Nick Nack feature. Overall, it doesn't make my top 5, but TMWTGG does make my top 10. It's definitely not the best, but like The World Is Not Enough, I find it enjoyable in a way that I do not tire of watching it. It doesn't get better, but it also doesn't get worse with age. 7.5/10

[blueman]

Agree with everything (except the TWINE nod, but so be it).