45 replies to this topic

[Willowhugger]

SPOILERS Obviously on who died.

Strawberry Fields and Mathis both met their ends in the movie.

So do you think either character should have lived?

Oddly, I think Mathis' death was appropriate but I think that Agent fields should have lived as well.

She might have made a good Moneypenny.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

Not a fan of Agent Fields. Maybe they could have kept Mathis, so that they wouldn't have to keep resorting to Felix Leiter.

[dogmanstar]

I don't think EON should kill characters Fleming made unless he killed them himself. Reason? We never get Mathis back. Barring another reboot. So, instead of having a Fleming created ally in future films we might get (God forbid) more Jack Wades or Nigel Smallfawcetts (OK, not EON's fault; I know). So, I wished they had kept Mathis. I didn't have problems with Fields and her death.

[SpyGal006]

They didn't give Agent Fields enough time on screen to make anyone get attached (at least for me). Plus, the last shot of her was a great throw back to Goldfinger and I thought that was fantastic. So, for her, I didn't mind.

I do have a problem with Mathis being finished. I thought it was a terrible way to have him leave. Plus, Bond needs all the allies he can get. And if Felix and Mathis were truly as important as they were to Mr. Fleming, then that should have been enough to have them write him in for later films.

(I actually liked Jack Wade. But Mathis was rapidly growing on me....now what am I going to do?)

[Double-Oh Agent]

They didn't give Agent Fields enough time on screen to make anyone get attached (at least for me).... So, for her, I didn't mind.

I do have a problem with Mathis being finished. I thought it was a terrible way to have him leave. Plus, Bond needs all the allies he can get. And if Felix and Mathis were truly as important as they were to Mr. Fleming, then that should have been enough to have them write him in for later films.

(I actually liked Jack Wade. But Mathis was rapidly growing on me....now what am I going to do?)

I agree. I don't have a problem with Fields dying. I do have a HUGE problem with Mathis dying as many on these forums know. He is Bond's best friend in Europe and Fleming kept him around for multiple novels without killing him. EON should have kept him alive. Had they killed off an ally who was featured in only one book and survived in the story, I could probably live with it, but not with such an important recurring character as Mathis. Not to mention the treatment of his body by Bond after his death. I've never been more pissed off about a thing in a Bond film than that whole bit.

[SpyGal006]

Just curious...What did everyone else think about the throw back to Goldfinger? (I felt touched that they gave us something that was such an iconic piece in Bond history...even though it didn't have the same impact being that it had already been done before. I thought it was done for all of us mega fans out there.)

[MkB]

I agree that Gemma Arterton would have been a very good candidate to reintroduce Miss Moneypenny. But as for the Agent Fields character, I had no problem with her death (she was clearly there as the sacrificial lamb).

On the other hand, I'm very disappointed by Mathis's death. I really liked his character. Too bad!

[Scrambled Eggs]

I was sorry to see both of them go.

But thats a good thing isn't it? If we care about the people dying - doesn't that suggest that the film makers are doing something right?

[ImTheMoneypenny]

I was sorry to see both of them go.

But thats a good thing isn't it? If we care about the people dying - doesn't that suggest that the film makers are doing something right?

[Qbranchtech]

I feel more for Mathis' death than Fields' largely because the character was already well established in CR (not counting in the novels) and Giancarlo did such a wonderful job this time playing the tortured spy. I would have felt more for Fields if she has more to do in advancing the plot.

Edited by Qbranchtech, 15 December 2008 - 06:24 AM.

[deth]

I was sorry to see both of them go.

But thats a good thing isn't it? If we care about the people dying - doesn't that suggest that the film makers are doing something right?

maybe. I think we care about Mathis more because of what Fleming did with him. Notice most people in this thread mention that they don't care/mind the death of Fields.

[Righty007]

...so that they wouldn't have to keep resorting to Felix Leiter.

That's a bad thing?

[sharpshooter]

I was sad to see Strawberry go. If she had to die, I would have liked her to have at least more airtime.

[DaveBond21]

I agree that Gemma Arterton would have been a very good candidate to reintroduce Miss Moneypenny. But as for the Agent Fields character, I had no problem with her death (she was clearly there as the sacrificial lamb).

On the other hand, I'm very disappointed by Mathis's death. I really liked his character. Too bad!

I saw him as I saw Zukovsky. Deserving of 2 movies and a death. That's good enough for any Bond ally (apart from Felix).

[sharpshooter]

The death of Mathis was one of my favourite moments from the entire film. I don't really mind the film killing a Fleming original. Mainly because how well it is pulled off. Well acted by both and the emotion was soaring. Just excellent.

[sorking]

Mathis death - too well-done to decry. There shouldn't be a protective bubble around characters just because they're original Fleming. That way lies repetition and predictability.

Fields, meanwhile, had a memorable, interesting arc, brutally cut short. Which made it effective (for me). But far more important was the affect on Bond himself. The conversation with M over her body is, for me, one of THE defining moments of both QoS and the Craig era.

[Mister Asterix]

Both should have died. Killing Mathis proves they’ll kill off just about anyone. Not only does it make Quantum of Solace a better it makes future Bond films better because you never know.


As for my feeling on Fields, see my review.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

...so that they wouldn't have to keep resorting to Felix Leiter.

That's a bad thing?

No, it isn't. It's just that Mathis should have had more time than two films. Felix is a great character, but I feel that, sometimes, its nice to have a different ally who isn't Felix, that's all...

[BlackFire]

Mathis should have lived, he was Bond's friend and another side contact; as danielcraigisjamesbond said, now Bond will have to rely on Jack Wade/Felix Leiter (North American Intelligence). Mathis meant diversity (French Intelligence IIRC).

Oh well, they can always invent a new ally.

Fields: She could have been the most awesome Bond Girl if used a bit more, so sad she died

Edited by BlackFire, 16 December 2008 - 06:15 PM.

[plankattack]

I was disappointed to see Mathis buy the farm - he was a good character wonderfully portrayed - but his death scene was a good one (I don't have a problem with Dumpstergate!), with both actors doing a smashing job.

But unlike everyone else Fields was IMHO, just another female character who Bond shags and then gets sacrificial-lambed. She joins that great pantheon of twelve-lines of dialogue characters filled with the likes of Corinne from MR. I didn't find anything about her particularly memorable and her death was unsuprising as Bond films go; to an extent, she's only in the film so she can get bumped off. Other than tripping up Elvis (not exactly taking on Oddjob here), and making the wrong hotel reservation, that was pretty much it for her character.

Edited by plankattack, 16 December 2008 - 06:39 PM.

[AgentBentley]

Fields didn't stay around long enough to make much of an impression on me.
Mathis is great, but he's a quiet type, not one to get caught up in chases. I regretted his death, but maybe it would've been hard for the character to come back even if he lived. Nice guy, but quiet.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I was disappointed to see Mathis buy the farm - he was a good character wonderfully portrayed - but his death scene was a good one (I don't have a problem with Dumpstergate!), with both actors doing a smashing job.

But unlike everyone else Fields was IMHO, just another female character who Bond shags and then gets sacrificial-lambed. She joins that great pantheon of twelve-lines of dialogue characters filled with the likes of Corinne from MR. I didn't find anything about her particularly memorable and her death was unsuprising as Bond films go; to an extent, she's only in the film so she can get bumped off. Other than tripping up Elvis (not exactly taking on Oddjob here), and making the wrong hotel reservation, that was pretty much it for her character.

Everyone knows how disgusted and upset I am at Mathis' death and treatment. As for the acting of the scene, maybe my reaction of the situation affected my perception, but I wasn't convinced of the acting in the scene and thought overall it was too sappy. Nothing worked for me in that scene.

As for Fields, I agree with you plankattack. I don't get all the excessive love for Fields either. She is what you say she is, and that is all she is. I don't find much of anything all that memorable about her, including her death. She is the Paula Caplan of this film.

[Sniperscope]

ditto on that Double-Oh. Fields=plot device, nothing more I'm afraid.
For me however Mathis' death was a genuinely moving moment in QoS. He has been my favourite character in over a decade and his loss was felt more keenly due to the richness of his role in the Craig films. But having said that he represents the whole Vesper story and with its conclusion it's probably dramatically appropriate that Mathis should take a bow. (There's also a bit of bitter irony in that Mathis is hidden in the boot which seemed to echo his own little trick with a car boot in CR...)

Edited by Sniperscope, 17 December 2008 - 08:02 AM.

[sorking]

ditto on that Double-Oh. Fields=plot device, nothing more I'm afraid.

And a means to investigate Bond's emotional state, surely? I don't mourn her loss - her death is one of those sad stories you hear about, and in that way not so different from Jill Masterson - but I believe that her demise has a serious impact on Bond. Not in terms of pity for the girl, but in questioning the lifestyle he's choosing.

[SpyGal006]

But having said that he represents the whole Vesper story and with its conclusion it's probably dramatically appropriate that Mathis should take a bow. (There's also a bit of bitter irony in that Mathis is hidden in the boot which seemed to echo his own little trick with a car boot in CR...)

Excellent point that I didn't think about/want to realise. The end of Mathis tying into the end of Vesper/CR drama.

Doesn't it seem a bit weird though to make a film and make sure every thread is cut so there's not one loose end later on? I would hope that they would give us a little more credit and keep a thread or two, even if it isn't a constant reoccurring. Felix has been there from the first book and he's been in and out of the films. I, for one, like a familar face...seeing someone come back and assist Bond only makes the film/characters stronger. I think they should have kept Mathis...one more person watching 007's back and there when he might need them.

[sorking]

I think they should have kept Mathis...one more person watching 007's back and there when he might need them.

I guess there's an argument that the films could risk giving Bond far to many allies. Bond, M, Tanner, Leiter, Mathis, plus demands for Q and Moneypenny...

With all that lot in the mix you risk making the one-film characters - good and bad - one-dimensional simply due to lack of screen time. Not to mention the difficulties of GETTING actors like Giancarlo Giannini to keep coming back.

In the end, Mathis has been in what will likely turn out to be 'half' of the Craig Bond films. That'll do nicely. Two films, two Fleming novels. I'm comfortable with the Craig series being their own bubble and the next actor not being hamstrung by recurring cast. Giving him a Mathis of his own - even written as a fresh character - is fine by me.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I think they should have kept Mathis...one more person watching 007's back and there when he might need them.

I guess there's an argument that the films could risk giving Bond far to many allies. Bond, M, Tanner, Leiter, Mathis, plus demands for Q and Moneypenny...

With all that lot in the mix you risk making the one-film characters - good and bad - one-dimensional simply due to lack of screen time. Not to mention the difficulties of GETTING actors like Giancarlo Giannini to keep coming back.

We're not talking about having Mathis in every film, just that he shouldn't have died (like his novel namesake). I don't want him to be in every film--or Leiter for that matter--but I want both of them available if need be. What would people have said had EON killed Leiter in Licence To Kill or in Quantum Of Solace rather than Mathis? To me there is little difference in the characters' relationship with 007. Mathis is the European Leiter of the Bond series.

[Sniperscope]

Doesn't it seem a bit weird though to make a film and make sure every thread is cut so there's not one loose end later on? I would hope that they would give us a little more credit and keep a thread or two, even if it isn't a constant reoccurring. Felix has been there from the first book and he's been in and out of the films. I, for one, like a familar face...seeing someone come back and assist Bond only makes the film/characters stronger. I think they should have kept Mathis...one more person watching 007's back and there when he might need them.

I wish they had kept Mathis too, he had so much depth and charcter (more so than Felix actually who for me seemed a tad irrelevant in QoS). That scene on the plane where he becomes all misty eyed talking about Vesper is brilliant. That's the kind of thing that makes his inglorious demise so painful and unexpected - I honestly never saw it coming! But its one of the many moments that made QoS a terrific experience.
And Sorking investigating Bond's "emotional state" through Field's death is a plot device. In other words its a device to further the plot.

[sorking]

I think they should have kept Mathis...one more person watching 007's back and there when he might need them.

I guess there's an argument that the films could risk giving Bond far to many allies. Bond, M, Tanner, Leiter, Mathis, plus demands for Q and Moneypenny...

With all that lot in the mix you risk making the one-film characters - good and bad - one-dimensional simply due to lack of screen time. Not to mention the difficulties of GETTING actors like Giancarlo Giannini to keep coming back.

We're not talking about having Mathis in every film, just that he shouldn't have died (like his novel namesake). I don't want him to be in every film--or Leiter for that matter--but I want both of them available if need be. What would people have said had EON killed Leiter in Licence To Kill or in Quantum Of Solace rather than Mathis? To me there is little difference in the characters' relationship with 007. Mathis is the European Leiter of the Bond series.

Well, I think they should have killed Leiter in Licence to Kill!

I like the movie a great deal, but the motivation of Bond over the death of some girl we'd barely met - coupled with that ghastly final Leiter scene where the jolly CIA mono-ped cheerily suggests some fishing within days of his bride's brutal murder...it's clumsy stuff that preserves the status quo over fighting for real drama. Kill Leiter! For Licence to Kill, let that be the motivation of our hero to quit his job and go on the rampage. It's better.

As I said before, I don't believe a protective bubble around Fleming originals is at all dramatically useful. It's almost damaging to the creative process and risks banal, tick-box movies. I don't see the virtue of keeping an extended set of guest characters - who would eventually be recast everyone - hanging around off-screen.

Mathis played by another actor is someone else - as the multiple Leiters proved. Let's find another agent to befriend when we need one. Why not? Just because Wade was weak doesn't mean they all will be. Movie audiences don't need a protective ring around one agent and not another. They're all equal in the movies - Fleming originals and new inventions.

Done right, at least.

[HH007]

...so that they wouldn't have to keep resorting to Felix Leiter.

That's a bad thing?

Variety is the spice of life.

I was also sorry to see Mathis go. I liked his elder wisdom in contrast to Bond's youthful hotheadedness (and he wasn't as scolding as M). Oh well...