24 replies to this topic

[Joey Bond]

The first viewing it kind of passed me. The second viewing it started to hit me. The third viewing and I need to get it off my chest.

The kiss between Bond and Camille at the end. Was it really needed? I don't think their relationship prior to the scene were of any romantic nature. Sometimes I wouldn't even consider Camille a Bond girl, just an ally. I remember sometime during pre production rumors going around that they weren't going to kiss, and now, in hindsight, I think it would have been better had they just ended up with a handshake or at most a hug. It would have been awesome if, after Camille's line about setting Bond free and she touches his face, Bond just walks away. Storywise I don't think Bond was still not ready for anything romantic (Field was just all about the sex).

Any thoughts?

PS: Having said that though, my friends who are casual fans were rather frustrated that he didn't end up in bed with her.

[Willowhugger]

I'm inclined to think that Daniel Craig's Bond and Camille were attracted to one another by that point anyway. Camille pretty much made a pass at Craig's Bond while she thought he was a geologist and that was apparently sincere. She certainly had no attachment to Greene and might have been eager to get his touch off her after she successfully figured out what he was up to.

After the Hell the two of them had been through, maybe she wanted to give him a going away present. Given Bond just saved her life, helped her get vengeance, and saved the entire country of Bolivia from a coup'de'tat; you can't say he didn't earn it. It was really just a going away kiss anyway and she didn't go to bed with him.

Edited by Willowhugger, 14 December 2008 - 02:37 AM.

[baerrtt]

The first viewing it kind of passed me. The second viewing it started to hit me. The third viewing and I need to get it off my chest.

The kiss between Bond and Camille at the end. Was it really needed? I don't think their relationship prior to the scene were of any romantic nature. Sometimes I wouldn't even consider Camille a Bond girl, just an ally. I remember sometime during pre production rumors going around that they weren't going to kiss, and now, in hindsight, I think it would have been better had they just ended up with a handshake or at most a hug. It would have been awesome if, after Camille's line about setting Bond free and she touches his face, Bond just walks away. Storywise I don't think Bond was still not ready for anything romantic (Field was just all about the sex).

Any thoughts?

PS: Having said that though, my friends who are casual fans were rather frustrated that he didn't end up in bed with her.

The kiss didn't feel romantic, more something you give to someone to make them feel better. Camille had just gotten her revenge, a revenge she'd been planning since childhood and evidently had no idea what to do with her life next. Bond saw how mentally broken the woman was and the subsequent kiss was placed to console her I feel. There is nothing 'traditional' about it, it doesn't reek in any way of 'Bond gets the girl'. If anything given eveything they'd both been through there was a touching sadness to it which hasn't always been evident when Bond has locked lips with a woman (Tracy and Vesper aside).

[BlackFire]

I see the kiss in a way where Bond says thank you to Camille for helping him to get free from Vesper, now that he resolved that the death don't care about vengeance and he must move on.

Edited by BlackFire, 14 December 2008 - 05:58 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

It's really interesting when you watch it because, Bond kisses her and she looks into his eyes and they stop. Its Camilles way of saying "You're not ready yet, not untill you get your quantum of solace." and he backs off.

[Solex Agitator]

I think the real oddity of the kiss is how it is covered, meaning how it was photographed and edited. The camera is on the back of Bond's head and on Camille's eyes. The coverage does not actually show their lips touching. An interesting, odd, and nontraditional editorial choice IMHO. I am not really how I feel about it as it is a bit of an intimate disconnect....

Edited by Solex Agitator, 14 December 2008 - 07:44 PM.

[Publius]

Their relationship might not have been romantic, but that doesn't mean part of Bond (and Camille) didn't wish it could be. That kiss was a small way of relieving that tension, of at least having a taste of something that wasn't to be, and of saying goodbye.

It was Bond in a rare moment of passion and vulnerability, the kind we last saw when he was on the beach with Vesper and confessed that it was her mysterious allure that was making him fall in love with her.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

It's really interesting when you watch it because, Bond kisses her and she looks into his eyes and they stop. Its Camilles way of saying "You're not ready yet, not untill you get your quantum of solace." and he backs off.

It is a great moment in the film. And one I think is totally worth keeping in there. Camille says can't set him free, then he kisses her as if to say "No, I'm fine! Look see, I'm free!".

You're right, Camille gives Bond this sad half smile you know she doesn't buy it. He hasn't gotten his solace yet and he's still locked up in his prison.

[Pierce - Daniel]

I saw it like this:

They were two of the same. Both fighters, he had more in common with her then Vesper. They had both lost people and were driven by something rooted deep inside of them. She's hot, and he's...well...he's Daniel Craig...'nuff said. Their was sexual tension between them, they wanted more but they know it's wrong, Vesper had only just died a matter of days ago. Another time another place.

[Kristian]

Also, don't forget the HE lunged forward and kissed HER. He SO wanted her. And I hope he shags her until she gets a nosebleed in the next movie.

Toodles...

Edited by Kristian, 22 December 2008 - 04:21 AM.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

Edited by danielcraigisjamesbond007, 22 December 2008 - 05:29 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

Thats what confuses me aswell. I'm currently writing an essay on Bond girls for my media coursework and this is one of the things that's struck me as odd.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

The answer is there in your own post. Bond isn't ready of a meaningful relationship for a woman he deeply respects. Fields is just a disposable pleasure to satisfy Bond's physical needs.

[sorking]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

The answer is there in your own post. Bond isn't ready of a meaningful relationship for a woman he deeply respects. Fields is just a disposable pleasure to satisfy Bond's physical needs.

Exactly. Camille is a reflection of Bond, Fields is disposable fun. To bed Camille would be to allow someone significant into your life. Until the end of the story, he's not ready for that - and even when he is, he knows it's not right. He knows she's too damaged (she took her revenge, but there's a strong implication that the internal battle will never be over), he knows he gets the women close to him killed.

There's a good reason to kiss her. And a dozen to leave it at that.

(I'm a big fan of the whole Camille arc. Her story in the cave has antecedents in Dr No, but while that began with a strong, motivated character, it ended up with a woman soaped-up, scrubbed, taken to dinner and chained to the floor. Camille makes good on the promise the first James Bond movie made - it saw the character's story through to the bitter end. Splendid.)

Edited by sorking, 22 December 2008 - 01:35 PM.

[MkB]

It's really interesting when you watch it because, Bond kisses her and she looks into his eyes and they stop. Its Camilles way of saying "You're not ready yet, not untill you get your quantum of solace." and he backs off.

It is a great moment in the film. And one I think is totally worth keeping in there. Camille says can't set him free, then he kisses her as if to say "No, I'm fine! Look see, I'm free!".

You're right, Camille gives Bond this sad half smile you know she doesn't buy it. He hasn't gotten his solace yet and he's still locked up in his prison.

I realised something odd: I remembered the scene with the exact opposite, i.e. Camille leaning to kiss Bond, and her backing off. Of course, you're right and my memory didn't serve, but I'm intrigued. Why did my subconscious "reconstruct" the scene, and what does it reveal about me?
Just curious, was I the only one to remember this scene wrongly?

[David Schofield]

Of course, the most appropriate ending would have been for Bond and Camille to cuddle up in some kind of escape pod Greene has a the eco-hotel.

Consider, Camille has her QOS; Medrano is dead. Bond knows about all about Yusef from Greene: what, further, does Bond achieve by confronting Yusef at gunpoint PERSONALLY, other than having Yusef soil his pants?

Surely, Greene would have had a "pod" to escape the desert.

So, Bond and Camille romp away in luxury, rising toward the heavens, as the Bond theme starts to play and the cinematic Bond is finally formed in Craig.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

It's really interesting when you watch it because, Bond kisses her and she looks into his eyes and they stop. Its Camilles way of saying "You're not ready yet, not untill you get your quantum of solace." and he backs off.

It is a great moment in the film. And one I think is totally worth keeping in there. Camille says can't set him free, then he kisses her as if to say "No, I'm fine! Look see, I'm free!".

You're right, Camille gives Bond this sad half smile you know she doesn't buy it. He hasn't gotten his solace yet and he's still locked up in his prison.

I realised something odd: I remembered the scene with the exact opposite, i.e. Camille leaning to kiss Bond, and her backing off. Of course, you're right and my memory didn't serve, but I'm intrigued. Why did my subconscious "reconstruct" the scene, and what does it reveal about me?
Just curious, was I the only one to remember this scene wrongly?

She does lean in as she'd reached over and caressed the side of Bond's face, so you're not wrong there. She'd leaned in more after Bond kisses her first. Looks like I have another excuse to go see it this week! I'll have a look see at the scene and report back!

Of course, the most appropriate ending would have been for Bond and Camille to cuddle up in some kind of escape pod Greene has a the eco-hotel.

Consider, Camille has her QOS; Medrano is dead. Bond knows about all about Yusef from Greene: what, further, does Bond achieve by confronting Yusef at gunpoint PERSONALLY, other than having Yusef soil his pants?

Surely, Greene would have had a "pod" to escape the desert.

So, Bond and Camille romp away in luxury, rising toward the heavens, as the Bond theme starts to play and the cinematic Bond is finally formed in Craig.

[Publius]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

He had his heart broken, not his... well, you know. Just because he's shut himself off emotionally doesn't mean he doesn't still have physical wants and needs. He's simply become more mechanical, more "horribly efficient" about having them fulfilled.

Maybe he's even using the fleeting fun to temporarily wash away the bad memories. Indeed, there's good reason to think Fields is the first woman he's been with since Vesper, given that QoS picks up right after CR.

Exactly. Camille is a reflection of Bond, Fields is disposable fun. To bed Camille would be to allow someone significant into your life. Until the end of the story, he's not ready for that - and even when he is, he knows it's not right. He knows she's too damaged (she took her revenge, but there's a strong implication that the internal battle will never be over), he knows he gets the women close to him killed.

There's a good reason to kiss her. And a dozen to leave it at that.

(I'm a big fan of the whole Camille arc. Her story in the cave has antecedents in Dr No, but while that began with a strong, motivated character, it ended up with a woman soaped-up, scrubbed, taken to dinner and chained to the floor. Camille makes good on the promise the first James Bond movie made - it saw the character's story through to the bitter end. Splendid.)

[Kristian]

Thats what confuses me aswell. I'm currently writing an essay on Bond girls for my media coursework and this is one of the things that's struck me as odd.

Mharkin, any chance that you can post your essay when it is done. I know I and others here would love to read it. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze?

Edited by Kristian, 22 December 2008 - 04:31 PM.

[byline]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

I think Bond's seduction of Fields had little to do with attraction and more to do with Bond trying to distract her to the point of of coaxing her into letting him go, rather than turning him in to MI6. So there was a difference between Bond and his attraction to Camille, and Bond using Fields to try to get what he wanted. I think he liked Fields, but didn't really feel a huge attraction to her. And, of course, with her death, he felt a huge amount of regret at having played a role in ensnaring her in Greene's web. So I don't see those as contradictions.

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

The answer is there in your own post. Bond isn't ready of a meaningful relationship for a woman he deeply respects. Fields is just a disposable pleasure to satisfy Bond's physical needs.

Exactly. Camille is a reflection of Bond, Fields is disposable fun. To bed Camille would be to allow someone significant into your life. Until the end of the story, he's not ready for that - and even when he is, he knows it's not right. He knows she's too damaged (she took her revenge, but there's a strong implication that the internal battle will never be over), he knows he gets the women close to him killed.

There's a good reason to kiss her. And a dozen to leave it at that.

(I'm a big fan of the whole Camille arc. Her story in the cave has antecedents in Dr No, but while that began with a strong, motivated character, it ended up with a woman soaped-up, scrubbed, taken to dinner and chained to the floor. Camille makes good on the promise the first James Bond movie made - it saw the character's story through to the bitter end. Splendid.)

I agree with all of this. (Sorry, I should've read the rest of the thread before replying!)

[DamnCoffee]

Thats what confuses me aswell. I'm currently writing an essay on Bond girls for my media coursework and this is one of the things that's struck me as odd.

Mharkin, any chance that you can post your essay when it is done. I know I and others here would love to read it. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze?

Probably. Don't expect much though.

[byline]

One thing that I didn't really get was this:
The idea that James Bond doesn't get Camille because he lost Vesper was a good idea. It would have been wrong for Bond to get into another relationship after his heart was broken by Vesper. However, it was okay for Bond to get Agent Fields...I'm confused. It seems like Bond's contradicting himself :~\

He had his heart broken, not his... well, you know. Just because he's shut himself off emotionally doesn't mean he doesn't still have physical wants and needs. He's simply become more mechanical, more "horribly efficient" about having them fulfilled.

Maybe he's even using the fleeting fun to temporarily wash away the bad memories. Indeed, there's good reason to think Fields is the first woman he's been with since Vesper, given that QoS picks up right after CR.

Exactly. Camille is a reflection of Bond, Fields is disposable fun. To bed Camille would be to allow someone significant into your life. Until the end of the story, he's not ready for that - and even when he is, he knows it's not right. He knows she's too damaged (she took her revenge, but there's a strong implication that the internal battle will never be over), he knows he gets the women close to him killed.

There's a good reason to kiss her. And a dozen to leave it at that.

(I'm a big fan of the whole Camille arc. Her story in the cave has antecedents in Dr No, but while that began with a strong, motivated character, it ended up with a woman soaped-up, scrubbed, taken to dinner and chained to the floor. Camille makes good on the promise the first James Bond movie made - it saw the character's story through to the bitter end. Splendid.)

Good points here, as well. Being a woman, my first thoughts tend to run to the emotional, rather than the physical. But all of these reasons are good ones for why Bond treated the two women so differently. Though I think the aspect seducing Fields not just for fun, but also to turn her into an ally, might have played a role, as well.

[danielcraigisjamesbond007]

But, if Bond's heart were truly broken, it would seem to me that he wouldn't be ready for any type of a relationship (even with Fields). That's what still confuses me...

[MkB]

But, if Bond's heart were truly broken, it would seem to me that he wouldn't be ready for any type of a relationship (even with Fields). That's what still confuses me...

Well, that's not properly a "relationship"... I guess "intercourse" would be a better word to qualify it...

[Joey Bond]

But, if Bond's heart were truly broken, it would seem to me that he wouldn't be ready for any type of a relationship (even with Fields). That's what still confuses me...

Well, that's not properly a "relationship"... I guess "intercourse" would be a better word to qualify it...

lol

Yeah I agree, the whole thing with Fields was all physical.