519 replies to this topic

[Judo chop]

Bond’s defection is the major theme of the film and is undermined by an irritating Felix and an overall lack of awareness throughout the narrative of the film. (If there ever was a time for multiple scenes featuring M barking “FIND BOND!!”, it’s in LTK when Bond has truly gone AWOL!) Because of this deficiency coupled with lacking direction at the point where Bond receives unauthorized, in-the-field assistance from Q, the situation feels nowhere near as precarious as it should.

"Defection"? That's a bit of a strong term there.

Yeah, I suppose it is.

Nonetheless, I don't think anyone in the audience felt for one moment that Bond was in any danger of not getting back his license to kill, which ultimately made the previous 2 hours a waste of time.

I don’t think most people in the audience even remembered to care that he had lost it to begin with.

The revenge angle is a very tricky thing to make work; it has to be built upon characters the audiences cares about, and I don't think this Felix, or his wife Della, were in the movie long enough, or known well-enough to fans, for the audience to be bothered with it. Most of the audience didn't recognize Hedison from his first time playing Leiter, and though most fans recognized Priscilla Barnes from THREE'S COMPANY, neither were on screen long enough before they were raped and murdered for the audience to really sympathize with the situation.

Yep. John Glen’s self-proclaimed ‘best work’ is truly riddled with failures. Doesn’t help that Hedison is irritating. He’s like Ted Knight in CADDYSHACK on happy pills.

[HildebrandRarity]

...Not again!?!

[Judo chop]

huh?

[HildebrandRarity]

huh?

It was meant to be right after GS's post, not your's.

[Judo chop]

Yep. John Glen’s self-proclaimed ‘best work’ is truly riddled with failures. Doesn’t help that Hedison is irritating. He’s like Ted Knight in CADDYSHACK on happy pills.

I never found Hedison irritating.

He’s an Amway goober.

[plankattack]

He’s an Amway goober.

I did not know that. But that would explain Killifer's treachory........

[MarkA]

This has been a fascinating discussion. I think the person that said Dalton mostly suffered from the tail end of the Roger Moore era really hit it on the head. Everyone was getting old, nearly dying, or had just run out of ideas. I always think of the 80’s as the absolute nadir of the Bond series. John Glen should never have been given the directing job (what has he done since?). The man maybe a great editor but he was strictly TV. But maybe he was cheap. The Bond’s were a tired franchise. And the sad thing about all this is I really liked Dalton. But to be blunt maybe he just lacked star quality and inherited the downward spiral that I really think was the fault of Roger Moore staying on too long with under funded budgets. I think the saviour of Bond was Barbara Broccoli.

[plankattack]

This has been a fascinating discussion. I think the person that said Dalton mostly suffered from the tail end of the Roger Moore era really hit it on the head. Everyone was getting old, nearly dying, or had just run out of ideas. I always think of the 80’s as the absolute nadir of the Bond series. John Glen should never have been given the directing job (what has he done since?). The man maybe a great editor but he was strictly TV. But maybe he was cheap. The Bond’s were a tired franchise. And the sad thing about all this is I really liked Dalton. But to be blunt maybe he just lacked star quality and inherited the downward spiral that I really think was the fault of Roger Moore staying on too long with under funded budgets. I think the saviour of Bond was Barbara Broccoli.

Which is why I do have a soft spot for LTK - they did try to do something different. That to many it flopped, is not the point. It's interesting that in some of the media coverage leading up to CR, LTK was referenced quite a bit. It's seen as the last time that Bond had an edge and for that I'm always grateful. But whereas CR reflected it's era, LTK gets saddled for being a slave to its (the whole "Miami Vice" criticism).

But for the criticisms that can be thrown at LTK, and many are valid, there two things going for it that I'll defend for ever. It's lead is brilliant from start to finish, and it's a very exciting film that builds up to the truck chase - a better climax than it gets credit for.

[Judo chop]

It's lead is brilliant from start to finish, and it's a very exciting film that builds up to the truck chase - a better climax than it gets credit for.

I would add that both of its leads are brilliant. And the truck chase IS very likely John Glen's finest moment in the director's chair.

It's the rest of it...

[Mr. Blofeld]

It's lead is brilliant from start to finish, and it's a very exciting film that builds up to the truck chase - a better climax than it gets credit for.

I would add that both of its leads are brilliant. And the truck chase IS very likely John Glen's finest moment in the director's chair.

The truck chase? Are you sure? Even with the one driver listening to La Bamba and the truck Bond is driving going up on two wheels?

[dogmanstar]

The truck chase kind of reminds me of elephants making love, if you know what I mean.

[Judo chop]

It's lead is brilliant from start to finish, and it's a very exciting film that builds up to the truck chase - a better climax than it gets credit for.

I would add that both of its leads are brilliant. And the truck chase IS very likely John Glen's finest moment in the director's chair.

The truck chase? Are you sure? Even with the one driver listening to La Bamba and the truck Bond is driving going up on two wheels?

That'd be the one. You've pinpointed some of the worst parts of it, but yeah, that's the one. What alternative do you have to offer?

John Glen's best moment is... ???

Does anything stand out?

[Mr. Blofeld]

It's lead is brilliant from start to finish, and it's a very exciting film that builds up to the truck chase - a better climax than it gets credit for.

I would add that both of its leads are brilliant. And the truck chase IS very likely John Glen's finest moment in the director's chair.

The truck chase? Are you sure? Even with the one driver listening to La Bamba and the truck Bond is driving going up on two wheels?

That'd be the one. You've pinpointed some of the worst parts of it, but yeah, that's the one. What alternative do you have to offer?

John Glen's best moment is... ???

Does anything stand out?

I'd say it's the Afghanistan base attack in TLD, starting with Bond sneaking in with the bomb and ending with our favourite spy recommending a great restaurant in Karachi.

[Safari Suit]

Nothing wrong with La Bamba.

[Judo chop]

I'd say it's the Afghanistan base attack in TLD, starting with Bond sneaking in with the bomb and ending with our favourite spy recommending a great restaurant in Karachi.

Not bad. The base attack is alright, but I wouldn't call it terribly memorable. It feels pretty by-the-numbers, even if it is an improvement on the group battles Bond's been involved with prior to that point.

You're right that things really do pick up once Bond is in the cockpit though.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Nothing wrong with La Bamba.

Too campy...

[Robinson]

Not bad. The base attack is alright, but I wouldn't call it terribly memorable. It feels pretty by-the-numbers, even if it is an improvement on the group battles Bond's been involved with prior to that point.

You're right that things really do pick up once Bond is in the cockpit though.

C'mon! The Mujahadeen were firing RPG's from the saddle and under the shoulder. You didn't even see that in "Red Dawn!"

I'll say it again and often. Dalton's biggest sin was that he wasn't Pierce Brosnan, and that's who American audiences were expecting back in '87.

Personally, I enjoyed LTK when it hit the multiplexes back in '89 and saw it a few times in theaters. That being said, I can see how it fell flat in places and how it was rather non-descript when compared to the other flicks from the summer of '89. Don't forget STAR TREK V, bombed when released that same summer. I just remembered during that summer, you had so many flicks coming out week after week. If a film didn't resonate, folks moved on to the next film and let their opinions be known.

I still say the story for LTK was daring, given the Bond films that came before it. I enjoyed Dalton, Davi, Del Toro & Zerbe and even Soto (I'm a New Yorker so I'm biased). Looking at it now, the production/execution of LTK didn't rise to the challenge. I loved the theme song but found Binder's work to be uninspired. People dimissed the film as a "Miami Vice" episode but I found most of Crockett & Tubbs exploits to be cinematically superior to LTK's camera work.

However, like Brosnan said back in '95 everything happens for a reason. GE had new writers, a new director and a new approach to producing these films. One could look at LTK's "failure" as necessary in order for the franchise to survive and thrive.

[tim partridge]

I really like LTK. For the most part it's Bond spying and pure espionage, and not overbearing explosions/action like in the Brosnan era (and the worst moments from QOS). I LOVE the bit where Bond snoops into WaveKrest and kills Killifer, which is low key but so dramatic. Just good actors, tension and conflict. I think the disocvery of dead Della is a showstopper, one of the best moments in the franchise, and I love how they showed her frozen face with that blood stained wedding dress.

The whole section with Bond scamming the casino and then failing to sniper Sanchez is intense (and looks gorgeous as well - credit to Alec Mills for the contrasty spy photography), nail biting stuff, and Dalton really makes that fearless determination his own and very human. That's true of his performance throughout the whole film, from the moment you hear the "some big drug dealer just escaped" through to the death of Sanchez, Dalton's Bond doesn't hesitate to give his all in tracking down the man who threatened his close friend. it really opens up that sense of loyalty in Bond's character that we have seldom seen throughout the entire franchise. It's a very curious and sensitive statement, and the fact he resigns from MI6 is for the sake of a personal friend is incredibly noble.

Can I also just add how much I love Robert Brown in LTK, and feel that he finally had made M his own in his one scene in the film. Amid all of the heat, drugs and guns of the Florida undercurrent, we get that glorious contrast of Brown's well composed, well spoken, well dressed and sobering M, reasonable yet uncompromising at the same time. It's a great, expertly awkward moment in which Bond has no intention of undermining his superior, but he is sworn entirely to the loyalty of Felix. Once Bond has fled the scene we have, without hesitation, M ordering his minder "not to shoot - too many people" before sincerely wishing 007 his best, and not through gritted teeth. There's a mutual respect between the two that we have never witnessed to this extent. LOYALTY, which is the central theme of LTK. Brown's M doesn't shout down at Bond like Dame Judi later would, he doesn't attempt to intimidate or lecture the obvious about procedure, instead he can tap into Bond in few words.

Robert Davi's performance as Sanchez is very layered and convincing. He's set up as some very unpleasant with no redeeming features, yet, on the theme of loyalty again, as soon as he assures Bond of his "Amigo" status, we get to see where Sanchez's heart is, how he can be fun and smile while always making sure the best comes to his allies 24/7. It is so gripping watching Bond play along to it with a great illusion of pure sincerity, yet he never for a moment questions his fight.

Everyone seems to like Benicio Del Toro in hindsight but I loved him in this and also John Glen's Christopher Columbus film. Dario is a real blood thirsty weasel and a threatening Bond henchman in the classic mold. That flick knife was very reality grounded but just as stylishly signature as a bladed bowler hat or metal jaws, if not nearly as iconic.

Michael Kamen gets a bum rap often for LTK, and I find this incredibly nutty given how much closer his score is to the twanging guitar and suspense of Barry's 60s efforts, and moreso than the largely classical orchestral TLD. The gunbarrel alone is such a return to form, raw and sexy with a real guitar doing that line and not the stuffy tamborine and string section that Barry had ruined it with since MWTGG. Can you honestly say you don't cheer when you hear the 007 theme play as Bond is lowered out of the helicopter? There's such a sense of wonder with those punctuating horns and the proper TWANG TWANG TWANG TWANG guitar line. Yes, we all know Dalton looks very unflattering in his wedding gear in that harness, but as if you don't get swelling goosebumps watching the inevitable click into place as Sanchez gets the tow.


One thing I will say against LTK is that I grew up watching the original UK ITV premiere, which edited out the whipping of Talisa Soto. Sanchez just says "Not a word" and we cut to the wedding car. It's an utterly traumatising cut that leaves so much to the viewers imagination, and I thought it was incredibly inspired. When I saw the real theatrical version, with the whipping scene I thought by showing the violence they actually diluted the overall effect. Less is definitely more!

Enough from me for the moment.

[Piz Gloria 1969]

Happy 42nd , Talisa !

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

John Glen should never have been given the directing job (what has he done since?). The man maybe a great editor but he was strictly TV. But maybe he was cheap. The Bond’s were a tired franchise. And the sad thing about all this is I really liked Dalton. But to be blunt maybe he just lacked star quality and inherited the downward spiral that I really think was the fault of Roger Moore staying on too long with under funded budgets. I think the saviour of Bond was Barbara Broccoli.

John Glen had five shots: 3 hit the target (FYEO, OP, and TLD), while 2 misfired (AVTAK, LTK). I would say only AVTAK was his sole fault; the budget was there; the locales were there; all the ingredients for a big hit were there, but the pacing was off in places, Glen should've lobbied for Moore to be replaced, and Glen got all the worst possible performances out of Roberts that anyone could possibly hope to get.

I believe he just got sandbagged on LTK: cheap budget, old-70's re-tread stars, a script not finished by the principal writer...if you look at footage from the set, film from the set of LTK, it looks like a group of people celebrating the last Bond film that's ever going to be made. Many of them thought LTK was the end of the line for everyone.

Dalton could be considered to be Barack Obama: inherited someone else's mess (Moore's and the studio in general), but failed to make things better, or stop them from getting worse. Dalton was cold and prickly with the press; it probably spiked a few newsroom articles from giving positive press coverage in the Entertainment and Style sections. Dalton was horrible with press and did not like to do publicity. It was all over his face. He resented it; it made him highly uncomfortable, and thus it made him difficult to market as a star.

Did Dalton ever do the late night talk shows in the US? I remember Maryam D'abo doing Johnny Carson (and Johnny quipping that Sean had gotten so old for the role of 007 that they had to replace his bullets with suppositiories). Obviously Craig and Brosnan have done the late night talk shows. They are much more of a game player than Dalton ever was.

Dalton was in the wrong place, wrong time. He did make a good Basil St.John in BRENDA STARR.

Still like Dalton, thought he was a great Bond, but I agree with what is written here. Think its spot on.

[Mr. Blofeld]

John Glen should never have been given the directing job (what has he done since?). The man maybe a great editor but he was strictly TV. But maybe he was cheap. The Bond’s were a tired franchise. And the sad thing about all this is I really liked Dalton. But to be blunt maybe he just lacked star quality and inherited the downward spiral that I really think was the fault of Roger Moore staying on too long with under funded budgets. I think the saviour of Bond was Barbara Broccoli.

John Glen had five shots: 3 hit the target (FYEO, OP, and TLD), while 2 misfired (AVTAK, LTK). I would say only AVTAK was his sole fault; the budget was there; the locales were there; all the ingredients for a big hit were there, but the pacing was off in places, Glen should've lobbied for Moore to be replaced, and Glen got all the worst possible performances out of Roberts that anyone could possibly hope to get.

I believe he just got sandbagged on LTK: cheap budget, old-70's re-tread stars, a script not finished by the principal writer...if you look at footage from the set, film from the set of LTK, it looks like a group of people celebrating the last Bond film that's ever going to be made. Many of them thought LTK was the end of the line for everyone.

Dalton could be considered to be Barack Obama: inherited someone else's mess (Moore's and the studio in general), but failed to make things better, or stop them from getting worse. Dalton was cold and prickly with the press; it probably spiked a few newsroom articles from giving positive press coverage in the Entertainment and Style sections. Dalton was horrible with press and did not like to do publicity. It was all over his face. He resented it; it made him highly uncomfortable, and thus it made him difficult to market as a star.

Did Dalton ever do the late night talk shows in the US? I remember Maryam D'abo doing Johnny Carson (and Johnny quipping that Sean had gotten so old for the role of 007 that they had to replace his bullets with suppositiories). Obviously Craig and Brosnan have done the late night talk shows. They are much more of a game player than Dalton ever was.

Dalton was in the wrong place, wrong time. He did make a good Basil St.John in BRENDA STARR.

Still like Dalton, thought he was a great Bond, but I agree with what is written here. Think its spot on.

Me, too; everything, in fact, except the Obama jab...

[Major D.Smythe]

It seems as though this thread has been covered by now, But as a 'front line' Dalton/TLD/LTK supporter, it gets my dander well and truely up, when in the past I have heard/seen LTK reffered to as a flop (despite the figure proving otherwise). I know we all have our opinions, but I just want to grab a frying pan and beat them in the face. That's not an overreaction, is it?

[Mr. Blofeld]

I know we all have our opinions, but I just want to grab a frying pan and beat them in the face. That's not an overreaction, is it?

No, not at all; in fact, I'll join you.

[Safari Suit]

Glen should've lobbied for Moore to be replaced

I don't agree with this. The decision to hire or re-hire Moore was the decision of the same people who decided whether to hire or re-hire Glen himself, and if he had lobbied unsuccessfuly to have Moore replaced, it would not have made directing him easy.

[Tubes]

LTK by no means flopped. It underperformed, to be sure, but EON and UA made a profit on the thing. Part of that perception is that LTK didn't do very well in the US. It opened low and had OK legs. It did, however, have the 6th highest international earnings in 1989 (which is a better ranking than TWINE).

[The Ghost Who Walks]

It opened low and had OK legs.

Glad to hear it had legs. Surely meant word of mouth was (deservedly) positive.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Dalton wasn't brought on board to merely break even or "underperform". If his films couldn't do better than an aging Roger Moore, what was the point of having him?

I'm sure Roger outstaying his welcome in the part contributed to many people tiring of the franchise altogether (the "quality" of a pedestrian, uninspired film like AVTAK and his performance in it surely didn't help either).

Edited by The Ghost Who Walks, 27 June 2009 - 08:05 AM.

[coco1997]

John Glen should never have been given the directing job (what has he done since?). The man maybe a great editor but he was strictly TV. But maybe he was cheap. The Bond’s were a tired franchise. And the sad thing about all this is I really liked Dalton. But to be blunt maybe he just lacked star quality and inherited the downward spiral that I really think was the fault of Roger Moore staying on too long with under funded budgets. I think the saviour of Bond was Barbara Broccoli.

John Glen had five shots: 3 hit the target (FYEO, OP, and TLD), while 2 misfired (AVTAK, LTK). I would say only AVTAK was his sole fault; the budget was there; the locales were there; all the ingredients for a big hit were there, but the pacing was off in places, Glen should've lobbied for Moore to be replaced, and Glen got all the worst possible performances out of Roberts that anyone could possibly hope to get.

I believe he just got sandbagged on LTK: cheap budget, old-70's re-tread stars, a script not finished by the principal writer...if you look at footage from the set, film from the set of LTK, it looks like a group of people celebrating the last Bond film that's ever going to be made. Many of them thought LTK was the end of the line for everyone.

Dalton could be considered to be Barack Obama: inherited someone else's mess (Moore's and the studio in general), but failed to make things better, or stop them from getting worse. Dalton was cold and prickly with the press; it probably spiked a few newsroom articles from giving positive press coverage in the Entertainment and Style sections. Dalton was horrible with press and did not like to do publicity. It was all over his face. He resented it; it made him highly uncomfortable, and thus it made him difficult to market as a star.

Did Dalton ever do the late night talk shows in the US? I remember Maryam D'abo doing Johnny Carson (and Johnny quipping that Sean had gotten so old for the role of 007 that they had to replace his bullets with suppositiories). Obviously Craig and Brosnan have done the late night talk shows. They are much more of a game player than Dalton ever was.

Dalton was in the wrong place, wrong time. He did make a good Basil St.John in BRENDA STARR.

...But the difference between Obama and Dalton is that Dalton is actually cool.

[Safari Suit]

There was no shame in being beaten by Bill and Ted. The Bear? OK, I'll give you that, although it didn't actually beat it just came worryingly close.

[CJB]

...But the difference between Obama and Dalton is that Dalton is actually cool.

Though an inferior actor, some would say.