519 replies to this topic

[Trident]

Obviously, this is all conjecture, but I suspect the film would have been a hit with either Dalton or Brosnan in the lead. Personally, I think the six-year gap between films, bigger budget and superior marketing push were the main factors in GE's success.

Yes, agree here very much. There was a large amount of accumulated Bond-hunger due to the hiatus. And when 'Goldeneye' finally hit the screen I think many actors could have had a smashing hit with it just because Bond had been absent so long and audiences wanted to see him (and cared less for the actor playing the part).

[HildebrandRarity]

Bond films ordinarily can 'sell themselves' in order to make some money but, at the margin, they also need to be sold to the marginal ticket buyer in order to achieve some level of 'blockbuster status'. MGM didn't spend enough money on LTK and Dalton wasn't the salesman Brosnan became a half a decade later. MGM spent much more money on GoldenEye and Brosnan was happy to go around the world to meet media and 'sell' the film.

Hunger, as per Judo and Trident, also played a part which speaks to the demand/supply equation.

LTK was not a flop. It was the 18th James Bond movie in 27 years i.e. at saturation point for the 'brand'. It was successful outside NA but was a dissapointment in the US. Globally it was profitable but certainly no blockbuster.

End of.

[Judo chop]

The 3 factors to GE's success and momentum-generation:

- Time lapse
- New Bond
- New director (ie. new 'look', albeit not that new)

And in that order, I believe.

Plug Dalton in for Brosnan and you eliminate the 2nd factor, but you've still got enough power to create both the success and the future momentum.

[HildebrandRarity]

You forgot marketing $$s!!!



MGM spent all in 1989 - as if they 'gave up' - but rolled out the red carpet for the promo team in 1994/95.

[Tybre]

The 3 factors to GE's success and momentum-generation:

- Time lapse
- New Bond
- New director (ie. new 'look', albeit not that new)

And in that order, I believe.

Plug Dalton in for Brosnan and you eliminate the 2nd factor, but you've still got enough power to create both the success and the future momentum.

Hell, even if Dalton and Glen had both returned, it likely would've been far from a flop. It just probably wouldn't have been mega-seller it became. I doubt if anyone expected GoldenEye to make about six times its budget. Sure they were probably expecting a big return, or at least hoping for a big return, but I doubt they were expecting that big.

[Judo chop]

What if BOTH Dalton and Brosnan were cast, and GOLDENEYE was rewritten as a PURE reboot in which Bond is fighting his way up through MI6 training for the 007 slot against a competing agent. Tamahori’s ‘code name’ theory is put into effect so that both Dalton and Brosnan play ‘James Bond' during the film, but, by the end of the film, only one of them makes to double-oh graduation and gets to go on to make more Bond films!?

Oh… MAN!!! CAN YOU IMAGINE THE BOX OFFICE INTAKE!!?!!!

[Tybre]

What if BOTH Dalton and Brosnan were cast, and GOLDENEYE was rewritten as a PURE reboot in which Bond is fighting his way up through MI6 training for the 007 slot against a competing agent. Tamahori’s ‘code name’ theory is put into effect so that both Dalton and Brosnan play ‘James Bond' during the film, but, by the end of the film, only one of them makes to double-oh graduation and gets to go on to make more Bond films!?

Oh… MAN!!! CAN YOU IMAGINE THE BOX OFFICE INTAKE!!?!!!

Scratch Tamahori's "James Bond = Codename" and it's not a bad idea. Two characters vying for the one open 00 slot at present. If done right it has the potential to be a terrific movie.

[Judo chop]

Yes, but in order for there to be any suspense, you can't have one named James Bond and the other named something else.

Unless his name was... Jason...

[HildebrandRarity]

It smacks of 'gimick', i'm afraid. I suppose it should have been done for TLD Pretitles as one of Eon's 'in jokes' given the situation between Brosnan and Dalton in 1986.

[Tybre]

Yes, but in order for there to be any suspense, you can't have one named James Bond and the other named something else.

Unless his name was... Jason...

Could just have them both be named James and not reveal their last names until the end of the film.

Okay now I'm taking this thing way too seriously...

[Judo chop]

You forgot marketing $$s!!!

I suppose so. That would contribute to the success portion, at least.

You’re the numbers man around here, so I’ll take your word for it. I don’t know how much more advertising attention GE got than LTK, and I’m sure the law of diminishing returns comes into play at some point, so advertising as a factor is total TOTAL speculation, (as opposed to mere total speculation).

Could just have them both be named James and not reveal their last names until the end of the film.

Or, have them both referred to as "JB".

And the title song by Soundgarden - "You Guess My Name"

[dee-bee-five]

Legal problems aside they didn't want Dalton to be Bond again!

Which is why they prepped a script for him in 1990 that would have been made if a crooked British solicitor hadn't brokered a crooked deal to buy MGM for a crooked Italian businessman (the same solicitor that got Ronnie Biggs out of prison last week, as it happens).

For your own sake, and that of CBn, I think you would have been advised to add "allegedly" to your post...

[Dekard77]

Reboot name wasn't used in '95 but basically they wanted to return to the formula. No Bond film can be made without the formula, not even LTK or QOS. Brosnan answered Bond mag stating he'd done research and found the audience wanting lighter, playboy, Blofeld type villain and exotic locations back to Bond. He focused on having the villain's lair.

I always felt Liam Neeson would be Bond ... but with the mega success of Schindlers List it would have been a step back for Liam to take the lead role. I could be imagining things but I am pretty sure I saw Under Suspicion video cover promoting Neeson as next Bond.

Brosnan was the obvious choice, since I am quite fond of Barry Norman he also made a few references when reviewing Mrs.Doubtfire what an excellent choice Brosnan would make to play 00-7. In Asia when they were showing re-runs of R.Steele they constantly spoke of Brosnan being chosen for Bond at one point. So in reality through some form of subconscious marketing or expectations it would have been Brosnan who was most suited to take over Bond even if he wasn't a major movie star or the fact his tv series being discontinued. He also looked like Bond so anyone seeing him in a movie would register him as good choice , like Moore or even Clive Owen (not my choice).
Moore was an exceptional case to be Bond, even with failure of MWGG he still would have been the clear choice to continue to the part and Eon had to work on getting new director/writer etc.

There was no way they would have brought back Glen to make another movie he seemed a bit dated at that time. I only knew Martin Campbell from No Escape and Criminal Law and felt he was ok with action but was pleasantly surprised by GE. He gave the film a fresh look and mostly am happy they brought in a good D.P and Simon Crane.
Dalton knew he had to bow out or face being fired, at that time the R rated action films were really big and Bond seemed very irrelavant and they had to take in a new star with enough power to draw in an audience, they wouldn't have got Mel Gibson though.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

The 3 factors to GE's success and momentum-generation:

- Time lapse
- New Bond
- New director (ie. new 'look', albeit not that new)

And in that order, I believe.

Plug Dalton in for Brosnan and you eliminate the 2nd factor, but you've still got enough power to create both the success and the future momentum.

Hell, even if Dalton and Glen had both returned, it likely would've been far from a flop. It just probably wouldn't have been mega-seller it became. I doubt if anyone expected GoldenEye to make about six times its budget. Sure they were probably expecting a big return, or at least hoping for a big return, but I doubt they were expecting that big.

I'll never get why GoldenEye was so successfull. It's probably only beaten by You Only Live Twice when it comes to the "Dullest Bond Movie Award" for me personally. Both Licence to Kill and even Tomorrow Never Dies blows it out of the water.

Edited by The Ghost Who Walks, 12 August 2009 - 01:51 PM.

[Dekard77]

Marketing, curiosity and Brosnan plugging the movie!

[Tybre]

I'll never get why GoldenEye was so successfull. It's probably only beaten by You Only Live Twice when it comes to the "Dullest Bond Movie Award" for me personally. Both Licence to Kill and even Tomorrow Never Dies blows it out of the water.

Personally it's still my favorite of the Brosnan era, but it's slipping. First viewing, it was fantastic. But it doesn't lend itself well to repeat viewings. And it hasn't aged as well as the other Brosnan films. Probably another few months and TND will take its place.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I'm actually starting to think TND is the best Brosnan movie. At least the first half keeps me entertained, which is more than can be said about GE, which becomes boring as soon as Tina Turner has bellowed out the (overrated) title tune.

[Judo chop]

Gentlemen. Soon you may come to see as I have…

as shocking as it may be...

as improbable as it may seem...

as vexing as it stands to reason...

as world-crushing as it is to admit…

…DIE ANOTHER DAY is probably his best Bond film.

[Tybre]

Gentlemen. Soon you may come to see as I have…

as shocking as it may be...

as improbable as it may seem...

as vexing as it stands to reason...

as world-crushing as it is to admit…

…DIE ANOTHER DAY is probably his best Bond film.

Perhaps some day, but that's a long way off. I will agree Brosnan delivers his best performance as 007 in Die Another Day, but it's just a train wreck. Really my biggest problem with DAD above all else is a massive tonal shift halfway through the film. It's as if P&W each wrote half the film and didn't really consult each other on anything other than character names.

[jaguar007]

I'm also on board with TND as Brosnan's best. Overall I think GE is the better made movie, but I think Brosnan was more convincing (and seemed to have more fun) in TND. TND is missing character development, but the movie on the whole, is Brosnan's most entertaining Bond movie.

[Dekard77]

Brosnan was a very good Bond, TWINE is a miss. DAD wasn't soo bad, certain parts can be forgotten but mostly I loved the villain and Miranda Frost along with Brosnan's final Bond appearance. Good movie.

[HildebrandRarity]

TND has a killer score by Arnold which alone is enough to trump GoldenEye and the mis-step which was Eric Serra.

[Tybre]

TND has a killer score by Arnold which alone is enough to trump GoldenEye and the mis-step which was Eric Serra.

Imo, GE > TND in terms of score, for the most part. There are a few TND tracks I love, such as Hamburg Break Out, but on the whole I find TND's score to rather meh. Arnold delivers better with CR and QoS.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'm actually starting to think TND is the best Brosnan movie. At least the first half keeps me entertained, which is more than can be said about GE, which becomes boring as soon as Tina Turner has bellowed out the (overrated) title tune.

I have to agree; the whole Monte Carlo sequence just drags on and on and on, and Bond has little to no bearing on the plot of the film at this point in time.

[dee-bee-five]

I'm also on board with TND as Brosnan's best. Overall I think GE is the better made movie, but I think Brosnan was more convincing (and seemed to have more fun) in TND. TND is missing character development, but the movie on the whole, is Brosnan's most entertaining Bond movie.

I make no secret that I regard TWINE is Brosnan's best - well-acted (particularly by Brosnan), well-written and very well-directed by the underrated Michael Apted. But I think TND runs it a close second (it has the best pre-credits sequence of the lot for my money). And as I watch DAD more than GE, I guess I must regard GE as his least Bond film. I don't find it boring. There's lots I love about rhe film. But I find I like it less than I once did.

[Dekard77]

TND and GE both had superb scores. I love the fact that GE sound is very unique and interesting in it's own way. However Bond tune played over during the tank chase is sadly out of place then as it is now.

[stromberg]

[...]Tamahori’s ‘code name’ theory [...]

There he said it, that nasty word. Bad Judo. Bad, bad Judo...

I object to calling it Tamahori’s ‘code name’ theory. That theory existed long before he even thought he'd ever get to direct (or misdirect) a Bond movie. It's even less his idea than the idea of a faithful CR adaption is Tarantino's original (but I have to admit, LT is a good scapegoat).

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Gentlemen. Soon you may come to see as I have…

as shocking as it may be...

as improbable as it may seem...

as vexing as it stands to reason...

as world-crushing as it is to admit…

…DIE ANOTHER DAY is probably his best Bond film.

I am actually thinking of re-watching this movie for the first time in years with an "open mind", and think about it as a crazy, over the top adventure akin to Moonraker. Maybe I'll be able to enjoy it if I take it even less seriously than I've done so far. Watch this space.

I have to agree; the whole Monte Carlo sequence just drags on and on and on, and Bond has little to no bearing on the plot of the film at this point in time.

I feel the entire film drags on, Brosnan VS Bean fight aside.

I'm also on board with TND as Brosnan's best. Overall I think GE is the better made movie, but I think Brosnan was more convincing (and seemed to have more fun) in TND. TND is missing character development, but the movie on the whole, is Brosnan's most entertaining Bond movie.

I'm not sure if I feel GoldenEye had any more character development than TND...
I think Brosnan did OK in GE, but like Moore before him, he didn't really find his way until later. He's good in TND, despite being saddled with some awful lines even Moore could not have saved.

[jaguar007]

TND has a killer score by Arnold which alone is enough to trump GoldenEye and the mis-step which was Eric Serra.

I agree. I actually love the score of TND. The instrumental version of "surrender" is fantastic. I also love the Asian take on the Bond theme in the scene with the motorcycle and the helecopter.

[Dekard77]

I felt that Brosnan made a very good impression playing Bond in GE. TND he got better but TWINE he was a real mess and a miss. Cockiest Bond performance ever. Somehow Spottiswood, Campbell and Tamohori managed to get rounded performance from Brosnan.