20 replies to this topic

[bondrules]

I watched it last night for a second time.

Camille picks up Bond at the Grand Andean after MI6 tries to arrest him. They leave in a Beetle. Bond on his own, calls Leiter, they meet. Bond walks out unharmed.

Where is Camille at this time? Did she find a safehouse? Did they stay together for that last night? How did they get back to the desert? A new car, the Beetle, another Bolivian bus?

I'm sure it doesn't matter much. We can assume that since Camille was secret intelligence in Bolivia, then she probably found a safehouse and stole another car or used the same Beetle. I think it would have been nice to have a scene where they both talk that last night before heading into the desert the next day.

Whats' your opinion?

[Judo chop]

Any one of your guesses is as good as mine. More than anything else though, I agree with the part where you say it probably doesn't matter.

They could have shown us what transpired, but to what gain? I'd presume they stayed together that night to talk strategy, either in a safehouse or a hotel, so I suppose that might have also been an opportunity for more 'feely' dialogue between Bond and Camille. I know some folks wish QOS had a little more of that, but I'm fine with the amount we're given.

So... totally unnecessary, IMO.

[plankattack]

She went to get something to eat?

In all seriousness, I think the way it moves it definitely preserves the notion that they don't sleep together, which is part of our "allure" as a Bond girl. If there had been any connecting scene with the two of them alone somewhere, I'd have to guess (with the character's and series' history in mind) that we might have assumed that something had gone on and so therefore changed how we view the character.

As it is their relationships is very much one of mutual business (though I like to assume that somewhere in Bond's mind in Haiti, he's driven by his assignment, his curiousity, and the fact he can never resist what he perceives to be a "damsel in distress" situation).

[DavidSomerset]

Couldn't they have just spent the time driving to the rickety plane? After all they couldn't take the usual routes as the police was looking for them.

[bondrules]

I'd have to guess (with the character's and series' history in mind) that we might have assumed that something had gone on and so therefore changed how we view the character.

I wasn't referring to intimacy. Just being alone talking strategy, etc. Just like Judo said.

Or there could have been a brief moment, alas Road to Perdition.

Perhaps a shot of Bond staring at nothing. Something, anything. Could have been a powerful scene.

For me, it's great to see the characters experience a moment of reflection, dialogue or not, before a final showdown. And in doing that, they would have shown where they were that night.

[Judo chop]

For me, it's great to see the characters experience a moment of reflection, dialogue or not, before a final showdown. And in doing that, they would have shown where they were that night.

They already have their chat behind the rock before the infiltration, so I wouldn't really want a double-discussion like that. To have both would feel like "oops... we forgot to talk about this last night, so let me tell you now."

However, if the rock scene was cut and the 'how to kill' lesson moved to your more reflective scene, that'd work for me.

But DavidSomerset is likely right. Logistically, what they probably did is hop in the car and drive to the desert.

[bondrules]

They already have their chat behind the rock before the infiltration, so I wouldn't really want a double-discussion like that. To have both would feel like "oops... we forgot to talk about this last night, so let me tell you now."

To me it didn't seem that Bond was doing any reflecting there. He was just talking to Camille about killing someone. Hi was giving advice, but I didn't sense he was making any reflecting of his own.

Doing that the night before would have been a great opportunity to do just that, and it wouldn't have been repetitive. He could have stared in the mirror, look into the sky, I don't know. Something that would have shown me that he was doing some soul searching before the final outcome.

[HildebrandRarity]

I thought After she picks him up in the old WW Beetle, Bond needs to figure out where Greene is.

He has to get more info to find Greene.

I imagine it takes time to find Felix.

Then he has to arrange a meeting with Felix.

Then I imagine time passes before meets up with Bond.

Then I imagine after the heat of the SWAT team clears, Bond goes back to Camille.

Then he probably tells her about the Perla de la Dunes and they have to find the location of it on a map.

Then I suspect they drive to get there.

I imagine the above takes some time, especially the drive into the desert.

[Judo chop]

They already have their chat behind the rock before the infiltration, so I wouldn't really want a double-discussion like that. To have both would feel like "oops... we forgot to talk about this last night, so let me tell you now."

To me it didn't seem that Bond was doing any reflecting there. He was just talking to Camille about killing someone. Hi was giving advice, but I didn't sense he was making any reflecting of his own.

Doing that the night before would have been a great opportunity to do just that, and it wouldn't have been repetitive. He could have stared in the mirror, look into the sky, I don't know. Something that would have shown me that he was doing some soul searching before the final outcome.

No, he wasn’t. But what I’m saying is that if you had a ‘reflective scene’ just prior to that, in which they were talking about their assault strategy, it would make the current rock scene sound like an afterthought. They’d have this brooding discussion the night before, and then they’re at the rock and Bond tells Camille how to kill someone and we all think "Why didn't you mention that last night?”.

If there had been some discussion prior to getting to Medrano’s, it would have been a logical time for Bond to give his killing lesson. Then the rock scene would just be Camille cleaning her gun. Which might have been fine, actually. Might have added a little tension. Two agents going about their final preparation - no other dialogue than a quick moment about their pistols.

Cool.

[plankattack]

For me, it's great to see the characters experience a moment of reflection, dialogue or not, before a final showdown. And in doing that, they would have shown where they were that night.

But because of the undelying themes of QoS, surely the point is that the reflection comes after the climax at the train station(?) Both characters have been driven/dragged by what's inside them to the climax so that it is truly a cathartic moment.

I know there's a scene in TND before the big finish where there's some interplay between Bond and Yeoh on the dinghy. Then again, I guess that direct comparison is the "have you ever killed someone" scene.

From a pacing standpoint, Forster has said that he wanted to keep things moving - maybe there was a feeling that bar scene with Felix was the pause in the pace from the elevator fight to the finale?

[bondrules]

But Bond alone in the bathroom or on a balcony (while Camille sleeps or whatever), shown immersed in his world, wouldn't have rendered the Rocks scene pointless.

That could have been a really powerful moment for Bond, which is what I'm interested in. An they would have killed 2 birds with one stone, showing them in their hideout.

I've seen these moments for the main character in other movies, and it works great given the right actor. I think it's an opportunity to prepare the audience and give them a moment to catch their breath. It could have been 60 seconds.

[Leon]

I appreciate that Forster clearly wanted a fast pacing to the film, but I do think a Bond story needs it's quieter moments. QoS had very few and they were brief, that was always an annoyance I had with the Brosnan films. If there were any decent length, atmospheric scenes of this nature they would always end up with some cheesy lines with Brosnan.

Casino Royale had some superb and lengthy scenes like this, done well and always absoring and enjoyable to watch. QoS lost that particular richness and elegant feel for a more balls-to-the-wall hectic and retro-modern gritty slickness (if you'll excuse the clumsy description).

It's a good and different new Bond, but I think they should stray back onto the way of the CR style of storytelling, merely improving the style of the larger action sequences for some more traditionally Bond-esque heroics. The airport sequence was alright but dragged a bit and the moment of overblown music felt out of place. The Venice finale, aside from Vesper's death scene, felt a little lacklustre. Other than this the style of Casino Royale and it's structure were much more enjoyable and suited Craig better I feel.

[Judo chop]

But Bond alone in the bathroom or on a balcony (while Camille sleeps or whatever), shown immersed in his world, wouldn't have rendered the Rocks scene pointless.

S'pose not. Are you just asking for a 'mood' shot, or is there something particular you really want to say about Bond's thoughts at this point?

I have nothing against mood shots. Might have been funny if in the hotel room we see Bond open his wallet and in a close-up we see that's it's actually Leiter's wallet Bond picked from him at the bar.

Good story to start a long-enduring friendship, and shows Bond's playful nature to come.

EDIT TO BONDRULES: Dude. You keep adding paragraphs after I’ve already quoted you and it makes me look like I’m not reading your entire posts! STOP IT!

[plankattack]

But Bond alone in the bathroom or on a balcony (while Camille sleeps or whatever), shown immersed in his world, wouldn't have rendered the Rocks scene pointless.

That could have been a really powerful moment for Bond, which is what I'm interested in. An they would have killed 2 birds with one stone, showing them in their hideout.

Agreed. That might have added something, rather than the need to have the two characters together. QoS is about Bond and his growth, so, yes, a scene of him alone would have added to the narrative. IMHO, he is in a different place before the climax than she is. What I like about the action climax is that I almost feel it's about Camille rather than Bond (especially after a couple of viewings) and that to me does make it pleasantly different from the standard finale. You could make an argument that his fight with Greene almost gets in the way. I really did sense that sure, he wanted Greene and police chief, but he's almost there to help her get what he deprived her of in Haiti. The Bond climax is really in Russia. Which is why I like the "dead care about vengeance?" moment.

[bondrules]

Are you just asking for a 'mood' shot, or is there something particular you really want to say about Bond's thoughts at this point?

If I was Bond, going into the Lion's den, I would be thinking about what is it that's gonna take place, how will things turn out and think of what has led me to this place. I think that would have worked.

A quiet moment when the audience can relate to Bond on a deeper level. That's how I feel with this type of scenes.

[Judo chop]

Are you just asking for a 'mood' shot, or is there something particular you really want to say about Bond's thoughts at this point?

If I was Bond, going into the Lion's den, I would be thinking about what is it that's gonna take place, how will things turn out and think of what has led me to this place.

I think Ian Fleming would agree with you.

(But I can still see Daniel's smirk when Bond pulls out Felix's wallet, complete with CIA badge! )

[bondrules]

(But I can still see Daniel's smirk when Bond pulls out Felix's wallet, complete with CIA badge!

That would have been funny

[Judo chop]

(But I can still see Daniel's smirk when Bond pulls out Felix's wallet, complete with CIA badge!

That would have been funny

Come to think of it, it might present a good opportunity to switch to your reflective brooding. Bond pours a drink, sets the glass on the balcony table, and pulls out the wallet. Has himself a little smug smirk (Craig sniffs a laugh through his nose with just the slightest head bob), tosses the wallet on to the table as well, his jaw stiffens, his face goes cold, and those ice blue eyes peer into the night...

In the hands of Craig, the transition from playfulness could emphasize the seriouness.

Whatya think?

[bondrules]

tosses the wallet on to the table as well, his jaw stiffens, his face goes cold, and those ice blue eyes peer into the night...

In the hands of Craig, the transition from playfulness could emphasize the seriouness.

Actually that's beautiful.

[Mr. Blofeld]

tosses the wallet on to the table as well, his jaw stiffens, his face goes cold, and those ice blue eyes peer into the night...

In the hands of Craig, the transition from playfulness could emphasize the seriouness.

Actually that's beautiful.

I'd toss in a quick bit of inhalling through the nostrils as well (sort of like in Casino Royale after he's killed Fisher), just to signify fully that "okay, he's got his armour back on now".

[Blonde Bond]

He put her in the trunk of the car. It's not new to neither of those two.

We all get our jollies one way or another.