28 replies to this topic

[pgram]

I believe I was the only one here who found that the adaptation of the novel CR to the film had one major problem. Namely, I argued, even though the defection of a soviet agent to a western power is something that makes sense in the Cold War context, the defection of a banker of international terrorists doesn't.

Still, I understand that this was the (only?) easy way to remain as faithful as possible to the original story. In fact, it was nothing more than a witness protection scheme. Something like Eraser... Not as intriguing as the novel, but at least, on the verge of plausibility. Even though, I stated, and I still do, if there were any hints of Le Chiffre being linked to terrorists (remember, M's debriefing left little doubt about them being 100% sure about that), there were other more persuasive ways to handle him.

At the end of CR, Bond, after getting Vesper's message, goes to mr White's house and shoots him on the knee. I was lead to understand (so was everyone, I believe) that Bond was out for revenge. But, it turns out, in QoS, that he 's not: it's a fully organised MI6 operation; even M is there to oversee it.

But why? The only thing they had on Mr White was a message by Vesper saying: ... mr white... Even if we assume that MI6 collected intelligence on him in the meanwhile, it 'd be hardly plausible that they found any proof about him (considering his higher rank, compared to Le Chiffre). How do they operate on foreign territory, completely illegally, abducting a civilian? More importantly, why didn't they just do the same with Le Chiffre? And, even more importantly, when exactly did 007 find the time to decide that he prefers a two piece suit to a three piece one, while conducting the abduction?

I believe there is a discrepancy here, that 's been haunting my nights since I saw QoS... What do you lot think?

[MkB]

that 's been haunting my nights since I saw QoS... What do you lot think?

Do you want a sleeping pill? I've got pills for everything...

[pgram]

that 's been haunting my nights since I saw QoS... What do you lot think?

Do you want a sleeping pill? I've got pills for everything...

Cheers, that 'd be very much appreciated

[Professor Dent]

And, even more importantly, when exactly did 007 find the time to decide that he prefers a two piece suit to a three piece one, while conducting the abduction?

I think it was about the time that Tom Ford took over from Brioni.

[Double-0-7]

that 's been haunting my nights since I saw QoS... What do you lot think?

Do you want a sleeping pill? I've got pills for everything...

I'm enjoying the film quotes that have been popping up in these threads - well done!

[Loomis]

A possible continuity goof that I don't get is that Bond appears to have gone without sleep for quite a while (i.e. days) by the start of QUANTUM OF SOLACE. I don't recall his looking particularly tired at the end of CASINO ROYALE.

[pgram]

A possible continuity goof that I don't get is that Bond appears to have gone without sleep for quite a while (i.e. days) by the start of QUANTUM OF SOLACE. I don't recall his looking particularly tired at the end of CASINO ROYALE.

Or, one could argue, while drunk during the flight with Mathis, he looks imaculately dressed, pocket square and all, an image quite different from the Bond we saw in the last part of the poker game in CR (which annoyed our Bill Tanner so much).

[joshkhenderson]

To me, it seems likely MI6 would change tactics after the near catastrophe of the Casino Royale operation. Losing two agents to Quantum (Mathis was still suspected of being a double) and nearly losing one of their few trained and licenced double-oh agents probably looked like an expensive price to bring in a banker. So, the straightforward approach to tagging and bagging Mr. White seems like a less risky way to move forward, especially after they realized how dangerous these people were.

[Captain Tightpants]

I was lead to understand (so was everyone, I believe) that Bond was out for revenge. But, it turns out, in QoS, that he 's not: it's a fully organised MI6 operation; even M is there to oversee it.

EON mis-marketed the film. QOS isn't about Bond going out for revenge, because there's no-one to get revenge on; Vesper killed herself. QOS is about Bond going out looking for answers, hence the "small emotional comfort". The revenge part plays in because everyone thinks Bond is gong for revenge.

[double o ego]

Continuity errors are a hallmark in Bond movies, so I just don't bother, however, some can be answered.

[krypt]

"How do they operate on foreign territory, completely illegally, abducting a civilian?"

Code-named rendition.

As for 007 changing clothes, he stopped off for a quick one.

[sharpshooter]

A possible continuity goof that I don't get is that Bond appears to have gone without sleep for quite a while (i.e. days) by the start of QUANTUM OF SOLACE. I don't recall his looking particularly tired at the end of CASINO ROYALE.

I imagine being chased for roughly an hour by machine gun wielding killers would be draining experience.

[MkB]

How do they operate on foreign territory, completely illegally, abducting a civilian?

Well, about this one, they're MI6, so they are just doing their job...
Th odd thing is that, apparently, a whole bunch of MI6 staff including M is waiting in the Siena safe house, sipping Martinis while they let Bond deal on his own with White and his men. This is not very friendly, nor a very sensible operation planning, is it?

You're right, pgram, there are some arguable plot points (and about CR, I believe those points were also arguable in the Fleming novel). But well, it's a movie!

[pgram]

I was lead to understand (so was everyone, I believe) that Bond was out for revenge. But, it turns out, in QoS, that he 's not: it's a fully organised MI6 operation; even M is there to oversee it.

EON mis-marketed the film. QOS isn't about Bond going out for revenge, because there's no-one to get revenge on; Vesper killed herself. QOS is about Bond going out looking for answers, hence the "small emotional comfort". The revenge part plays in because everyone thinks Bond is gong for revenge.

I was actually referring to the last scene of CR. There is no clue that Bond payed this visit to mr White as an MI6 operative. Instead, we were lead to believe he 's acting like a free agent, on a personal mission.

But I agree with the rest of the comments. It's true there doesn't have to be a continuity between films (even though it was supposed to be a direct sequel), and I agree that it's just a film, not everything has to fall in place. But this is a fan forum, so it's our duty as genuine geeks to analyse and over-analyse everything...

[Craig is 007]

At the end of Casino Royale, when Bond is talking to M over the phone, he says he will come back (that he doesn't need more time).
Seconds later he notices Vesper's message with Mr. White's phone number. Between Venice and Lake Garda, he calls M and says that he has Mr. White's number. They track him down with the Smarttwall program at MI6 Headquarters. M and some MI6-agents travels to the safe house in Siena, and meets Bond there. Then, later Bond is sent out to pick up Mr. White at his villa.
He calls Mr. White (using the number on Vesper's message), shoots him in the knee and puts him in the trunk. He takes of the vest, that he is wearing under the dinner jacket, and gets in the car and drives off. Quantum Of Solace begins.

He is using the same suit in both films, the only thing different is that he has taken off the vest underneath his jacket. The film starts 10 - 20 minutes after Casino Royale, right? So he has plenty of time to remove the silencer from the MP5, and take off his vest. Problem solved.

Edited by Craig is 007, 19 November 2008 - 02:51 PM.

[Mister Asterix]

At the end of Casino Royale, when Bond is talking to M over the phone, he says he will come back (that he doesn't need more time).
Seconds later he notices Vesper's message with Mr. White's phone number. Between Venice and Lake Garda, he calls M and says that he has Mr. White's number. They track him down with the Smarttwall program at MI6 Headquarters. M and some MI6-agents travels to the safe house in Siena, and meets Bond there. Then, later Bond is sent out to pick up Mr. White at his villa.
He calls Mr. White (using the number on Vesper's message), shoots him in the knee and puts him in the trunk. He takes of the vest, that he is wearing under the dinner jacket, and gets in the car and drives off. Quantum Of Solace begins.

He is using the same suit in both films, the only thing different is that he has taken off the vest underneath his jacket. The film starts 10 - 20 minutes after Casino Royale, right? So he has plenty of time to remove the silencer from the MP5, and take off his vest. Problem solved.

Whether correct or not, it is plausible.

Apparently people think that when things happen while the camera is not rolling it makes a plot hole. Perhaps the Starship Enterprise came back in time and beamed up Bond’s vest. The point is who cares? There probably forty-three thousand plausible explanations to how Bond is now sans vest. Do you really need to know?

And I don’t at all get how it is inconsistent for the SIS to two handle two different situations in two different manners. And even if it was exactly the same situation and Mr White happened to be holding his own poker tournament in Montenegro with the hundred million dollars he now had, you expect a government agency to be consistent?

[ACE]

This thread suddenly makes sense when one realises that in American, "vest" is waistcoat!

In British, "vest" is a garment worn under the shirt. I kept wondering how they know he changed or doesn't have a vest on.

Two nations divided by the same language.

[deth]

his hair also grew out a bit in that hour. go figure...

[MkB]

This thread suddenly makes sense when one realises that in American, "vest" is waistcoat!

Yeah, all of a sudden my mental image of Bond looked a little more like Die Hard's John McClane!

(completely side-tracked question: I'd be curious to know what the American for the British "vest" is?)

[pgram]

At the end of Casino Royale, when Bond is talking to M over the phone, he says he will come back (that he doesn't need more time).
Seconds later he notices Vesper's message with Mr. White's phone number. Between Venice and Lake Garda, he calls M and says that he has Mr. White's number. They track him down with the Smarttwall program at MI6 Headquarters. M and some MI6-agents travels to the safe house in Siena, and meets Bond there. Then, later Bond is sent out to pick up Mr. White at his villa.
He calls Mr. White (using the number on Vesper's message), shoots him in the knee and puts him in the trunk. He takes of the vest, that he is wearing under the dinner jacket, and gets in the car and drives off. Quantum Of Solace begins.

He is using the same suit in both films, the only thing different is that he has taken off the vest underneath his jacket. The film starts 10 - 20 minutes after Casino Royale, right? So he has plenty of time to remove the silencer from the MP5, and take off his vest. Problem solved.

Whether correct or not, it is plausible.

Apparently people think that when things happen while the camera is not rolling it makes a plot hole. Perhaps the Starship Enterprise came back in time and beamed up Bond’s vest. The point is who cares? There probably forty-three thousand plausible explanations to how Bond is now sans vest. Do you really need to know?

And I don’t at all get how it is inconsistent for the SIS to two handle two different situations in two different manners. And even if it was exactly the same situation and Mr White happened to be holding his own poker tournament in Montenegro with the hundred million dollars he now had, you expect a government agency to be consistent?

Not quite. Still, the way they handled mr White's case made my objection to CR's defection idea stronger. Hence, I decided to post this thread. Perhaps you 're right, it might be better suited for the CR subforum, since my objection is mainly about CR rather than QoS.

As far as the waistcoat (or vest or gileko or however you wanna call it) is concerned, it wasn't the main argument in this thread.

And I 'd still prefer more subtlety in MI6's operating mode. At the end of the day, secret intelligence is supposed to be (a) secret and (b)yes, you guessed correctly, intelligent. This operation was neither. Not that it matters much. Just to keep the conversation going...

[ImTheMoneypenny]

This thread suddenly makes sense when one realises that in American, "vest" is waistcoat!

Yeah, all of a sudden my mental image of Bond looked a little more like Die Hard's John McClane!

(completely side-tracked question: I'd be curious to know what the American for the British "vest" is?)

I think we call them undershirts, tank top, or 'wife beater' of all things.

[Craig is 007]

his hair also grew out a bit in that hour. go figure...

Did it?...

[bondrules]

Apparently people think that when things happen while the camera is not rolling it makes a plot hole.

So true. Well said Mr. *

[deth]

his hair also grew out a bit in that hour. go figure...

Did it?...

yes. he hair style is different than in CR. It's also a touch longer.

[pgram]

his hair also grew out a bit in that hour. go figure...

Did it?...

yes. he hair style is different than in CR. It's also a touch longer.

it is, yes, it 's a lot better than CR. He 's also lost some of the bulk of his muscles. But that was not my point... I wish I hadn't put this comment about the waistcoat in the original post...

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

And, even more importantly, when exactly did 007 find the time to decide that he prefers a two piece suit to a three piece one, while conducting the abduction?

I think it was about the time that Tom Ford took over from Brioni.

Calling... Tom Ford.
***Hello... Tom? Look, this Brioni suit is very uncomfortable, could you please measure me one of Yours? ... Yes... two pieces... and two buttons... No, i'm at Mr White's villa abducting him about to get in my Aston Martin... Hurry up, I don't want him to bleed to death...***

[dennisbolt]

The end of CR to start of QOS has many oddities.

The three piece suit always looked out of place on Craig. Brosnan it worked, but Craig is too muscular.

Lake Garda is in Northern Italy, and Siena is a small town in Central Italy, three hours away. Why does M come to interigate White there during Palio, when Milan would have been closer, easier etc??

Also, the marble quarries are on the west coast of Italy near Florence/Lucca/Carerra, so that is a pretty convoluded car chase.

But that is the movie business.

[MkB]

Lake Garda is in Northern Italy, and Siena is a small town in Central Italy, three hours away. Why does M come to interigate White there during Palio, when Milan would have been closer, easier etc??

Also, the marble quarries are on the west coast of Italy near Florence/Lucca/Carerra, so that is a pretty convoluded car chase.

But that is the movie business.

Yes, indeed, movie business and "potic licence"

Actually, are we explicitly told that the abduction is set on the shore of Lake Garda? Or do we simply know the filming took place there? In this case, the distance is not a problem. Lake Garda just doubles as "some Italian lake".

And for the record the marble quarries of Carrara are in the same region of Italy as Siena (Tuscany), so it wouldn't be such a far stretch (even though it's a long drive, and even a crazy Aston Martin couldn't make it in the actual time of the PTS )

[Aces oo7i]

[At the end of the day, secret intelligence is supposed to be (a) secret and (b)yes, you guessed correctly, intelligent.

This made my day.

I agree though. I was left with the impression it was Bond acting solo rather in junction with MI6. Although I didn't have a particularly hard time switching over to 'okay its an operation', I was left wondering how these random henchmen knew White had been abducted. Just how many men in Venice does Quantum need?