159 replies to this topic

[byline]

Wow, superb post, gkgyver. I couldn't have said that better.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Daniel Craig's films mark the first earnest and permanent change in tone since Live And Let Die.

Live and Let Die the movie, do you mean? Funny; I always thought the change in tone started in YOLT, was rejected in OHMSS, then kicked up to 11 in DAF...

[quantumofsolace]

I'm pleased they made a film that didn't play it safe. I wss looking forward to Casino Royale 2 but , as Craig says in his interviews, that would have been wrong. QoS is a change of pace and style and it shakes things up again. Those who want Bond to stay still can wait just a little while longer. The last Craig interview I read and heard suggests that a return to TSWLM, YOLT ,MR could be the option they go for next.

[SecretAgentFan]

The worst film in the series would still be a very entertaining and fun film. Today I´d say it´s "Octopussy". Because of its campiness. Although I do love Bond dressing up as a clown and being ridiculed by young people while trying to get to the circus in time to save them from a nuclear blast that will ignite the Third World War.

Coming to think of it - "Octopussy" really is a very entertaining and fun film. Damn, I´d love to watch it right now...

[gkgyver]

Daniel Craig's films mark the first earnest and permanent change in tone since Live And Let Die.

Live and Let Die the movie, do you mean? Funny; I always thought the change in tone started in YOLT, was rejected in OHMSS, then kicked up to 11 in DAF...

Okay, I left DAF out of the equation. The PERMANENT change didn't start until then, there was OHMSS in between. But I would think that OHMSS didn't fail because of the story, but because of Lazenby; wasn't it well-known that the Bond films were literary adaptions? So I suppose the story of OHMSS was publically known even before the movie.
And even DAF, not to mention YOLT, didn't have zombie voodoo priests.

[Paul Scrabo]

SecretAgentFan wrote
"Although I do love Bond dressing up as a clown and being ridiculed by young people while trying to get to the circus in time to save them from a nuclear blast that will ignite the Third World War."

Thank you for setting straight about what happens in Octopussy...Bond dressing like a clown was done seriously. not as a goof, and it gives the scene a bazaar touch. Casual fan folk always say "..and Moore even DRESSES like a clown in Octopussy.!"..They don't get it. It's a good scene. I thought Octopussy was more fun than "Temple of Doom", in fact!

Paul

[Von Hammerstein]

Okay, not sure where to put this. I enjoyed QOS. I like Craig's Bond, he's a tough bastard. The movie was a rollercoaster ride.

I took my sons. my wife and her father to see the film. My father-in-law and my wife have been lifelong James Bond fans. Both enjoyed CR and my dad-in-law even applauded at the end of it. After this one my wife says. "Well, that wasn't James Bond, it was just another action movie. He wasn't suave or sophisiticated, and I love the gadgets, there wasn't a single gadget." My father-in-law agreed that QOS was a very good Jason Bourne movie but not much of a Bond flick.

As I have said. I loved it and my sons thought it was great.

[HildebrandRarity]

Okay, not sure where to put this. I enjoyed QOS. I like Craig's Bond, he's a tough bastard. The movie was a rollercoaster ride.

I took my sons. my wife and her father to see the film. My father-in-law and my wife have been lifelong James Bond fans...After this one my wife says. "Well, that wasn't James Bond, it was just another action movie. He wasn't suave or sophisiticated, and I love the gadgets, there wasn't a single gadget." My father-in-law agreed that QOS was a very good Jason Bourne movie but not much of a Bond flick.

As I have said. I loved it and my sons thought it was great.

LOL!

Your sons obviously are from the right side of the gene pool.

As for the wife and her pappy, well...

I know there have only been 3 Bourne movies but I don't recall him rejecting flea bag hotels in favour of the best place in town and then shagging a pretty girl within only an hour of making her acquaintance. I don't recall Jason drinking scotch, white wine, six martinis, champagne, champagne again and beer ALL IN THE SAME movie.

As I said, your sons are the real prize. I don't suspect they get their intellectual capacity from that particular grand pa, eh?

PS

I'm joking.

[Von Hammerstein]

All in good fun, Hildy.

[DR76]

And yes it does come down to how much of the formula needs to be retained before a Bond film stops becoming a Bond film. Only we can answer that for ourselves.

I think that the first three films were not really formulaic. They just told the story they had to tell in the way they needed to tell it. Terence Young's work was similar in the initial films but stylistically was dictated by the story he had to tell. The lava of creativity had not yet cooled to the crust of formula.

Actually, I would say that FRWL was the only one of the first three films that seemed less like a traditional Bond film. Which is why I think it is the best of the three. The less traditional a Bond film is, the more I seemed to like it. I probably would have liked "QUANTUM OF SOLACE" more if the pacing had not been that fast and the running time somewhat longer. Other than that, it has made my TOP TEN list of favorite Bond films.

[Scaramanga'74]

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller. Has Bond merely become a Bourne copycat? Definitely looks like it. How could an iconic character end up like this? Indeed, a grave international tragedy.

The death of Agent Fields also indicates creative bankruptcy on the part of the filmmakers. Why consciously emulate Goldfinger’s most memorable scene? Couldn’t they come up with something refreshing and more dramatic?

The dialogue is mostly incomprehensible if not mystifying. It’s frustrating listening to those characters indulging in spy babble. It’s like they’re talking with their mouthful of pebbles.

David Arnold is at his worst. Definitely not the same guy who gave us DAD and CR. Even Michel Legrand did better in Never Say Never Again. Theme song? Pure noisy garbage. Both White & Keys have ignominiously occupied the seat vacated by Madonna.

While Greene was moderately convincing as the arch antagonist, his sidekick Elvis is definitely the most useless henchman any villain can hope to have. Useless and utterly forgettable. What happened to the likes of Red Grant, Necros and Stamper? Even the diminutive Nick Nack did a better job in avenging his dead employer.

Another copycat element is the traditional gun barrel theme. Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan. Why didn’t he develop his own distinctive style like Lazenby or Moore? Why imitate the other Bonds? And why the hurry when strolling across the screen? Can’t wait to wrap up the film, Mr. Craig? It’s supposed to be a stroll, remember?

In conclusion, QoS is a below average installment that dishes out more disappointments and frustration than any of the previous Bonds. I see eye to eye with Graham Rye’s scorching assessment on this. Hopefully the producers are taking note of this before the making of Bond #23.

[DamnCoffee]

Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan.

There are only so many times one can walk and shoot without looking repetitive.

[gkgyver]

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller

Yes.
'cause the Brosnans and late Moores are so genuinely original as hell.

[SecretAgentFan]

Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan.

There are only so many times one can walk and shoot without looking repetitive.

Exactly!

[Mr. Blofeld]

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller

Yes.
'cause the Brosnans and late Moores are so genuinely original as hell.

Well, who said Hell was original?

[JimmyBond]

I get bored writing out long posts, but from time to time I enjoy playing in other people's sand box's (in other words, debating people). So here goes:

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller. Has Bond merely become a Bourne copycat? Definitely looks like it. How could an iconic character end up like this? Indeed, a grave international tragedy.

Quite the tragedy, you didn't enjoy a movie. The horrors!

The death of Agent Fields also indicates creative bankruptcy on the part of the filmmakers. Why consciously emulate Goldfinger’s most memorable scene? Couldn’t they come up with something refreshing and more dramatic?

If you wrerent told it was a Goldfinger homage would you have noticed it? The scene works in the context of the movie cause at that point Greene is wanting everyone to believe he's after oil. As Bond says it's "misdirection." The scene works in the context of the movie.

The dialogue is mostly incomprehensible if not mystifying. It’s frustrating listening to those characters indulging in spy babble. It’s like they’re talking with their mouthful of pebbles.

Every piece of dialogue spoken in this film is used to move the plot forward. I realize that's quite a leap from the Brosnan and Moore films where a lot of dialogue was put in there just for the sake of it.

David Arnold is at his worst. Definitely not the same guy who gave us DAD and CR. Even Michel Legrand did better in Never Say Never Again. Theme song? Pure noisy garbage. Both White & Keys have ignominiously occupied the seat vacated by Madonna.

You're right, he's not the same guy who did DAD. We can be ever so thankful he didnt cram the Bond theme down our throats every five minutes.

While Greene was moderately convincing as the arch antagonist, his sidekick Elvis is definitely the most useless henchman any villain can hope to have. Useless and utterly forgettable. What happened to the likes of Red Grant, Necros and Stamper? Even the diminutive Nick Nack did a better job in avenging his dead employer.

Seems you missed the point of the character. Of course he's useless! He's supposed to be.

Another copycat element is the traditional gun barrel theme. Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan. Why didn’t he develop his own distinctive style like Lazenby or Moore? Why imitate the other Bonds? And why the hurry when strolling across the screen? Can’t wait to wrap up the film, Mr. Craig? It’s supposed to be a stroll, remember?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're the types of fans who wanted the gunbarrel back, now that you got it you still bitch.

In conclusion, QoS is a below average installment that dishes out more disappointments and frustration than any of the previous Bonds. I see eye to eye with Graham Rye’s scorching assessment on this. Hopefully the producers are taking note of this before the making of Bond #23.

I hope the producers are taking note of how successful this movie is doing. And how (despite a minority) many people enjoy the new "fresh" take on Bond. I hope Bond 23 is just as daring as this one.

[Judo chop]

Another copycat element is the traditional gun barrel theme. Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan. Why didn’t he develop his own distinctive style like Lazenby or Moore? Why imitate the other Bonds? And why the hurry when strolling across the screen? Can’t wait to wrap up the film, Mr. Craig? It’s supposed to be a stroll, remember?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're the types of fans who wanted the gunbarrel back, now that you got it you still bitch.

He should’ve slid in on his belly.
No wait…. that would have been copying Lazenby.

He could’ve swung in on a rope!
Uh, no.

Or how about he takes a few steps, and, then… JUMPS before he shoots!
Nope. Taken.

Comes in backwards doing the moonwalk and wearing a yellow-jumpsuit?

Behind the back shot? Between the legs? Ricochet the bullet off a metal bust of Margaret Thatcher?

To answer the question more seriously, why NOT in a hurry? That’s the tone of the film, and his gunbarrel pace matched it.

[Scaramanga'74]

Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan.

There are only so many times one can walk and shoot without looking repetitive.

Exactly!

On the contrary, there are still many ways to strike an original pose. I'm sure the producers can think up of a few. Talk about creative imagination!

[Scaramanga'74]

I get bored writing out long posts, but from time to time I enjoy playing in other people's sand box's (in other words, debating people). So here goes:

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller. Has Bond merely become a Bourne copycat? Definitely looks like it. How could an iconic character end up like this? Indeed, a grave international tragedy.

Quite the tragedy, you didn't enjoy a movie. The horrors!

The death of Agent Fields also indicates creative bankruptcy on the part of the filmmakers. Why consciously emulate Goldfinger’s most memorable scene? Couldn’t they come up with something refreshing and more dramatic?

If you wrerent told it was a Goldfinger homage would you have noticed it? The scene works in the context of the movie cause at that point Greene is wanting everyone to believe he's after oil. As Bond says it's "misdirection." The scene works in the context of the movie.

The scene may have worked within the context of the movie, but why rip-off Goldfinger? Bond movies are known for their inspired inventiveness and this is pure embarrassment. Not only that, the particular scene clearly lacked the awe-inspiring sense of drama evoked by the late, lamented Miss Masterson. Wasted.

The dialogue is mostly incomprehensible if not mystifying. It’s frustrating listening to those characters indulging in spy babble. It’s like they’re talking with their mouthful of pebbles.

Every piece of dialogue spoken in this film is used to move the plot forward. I realize that's quite a leap from the Brosnan and Moore films where a lot of dialogue was put in there just for the sake of it.

The incomprehensible dialogue may or may not have moved the plot forward but it certainly left the audience befuddled. Listening to their babble was an equally grating experience. If they were trying to impress the audience, it just didn’t work.

David Arnold is at his worst. Definitely not the same guy who gave us DAD and CR. Even Michel Legrand did better in Never Say Never Again. Theme song? Pure noisy garbage. Both White & Keys have ignominiously occupied the seat vacated by Madonna.

You're right, he's not the same guy who did DAD. We can be ever so thankful he didnt cram the Bond theme down our throats every five minutes.

What is a Bond film when the quintessential Bond theme is hardly heard in it? What’s the point of saving it up for the end credits when the idea was to use it boldly within the plot structure? Arnold need not do it every 5 minutes but at least have it unleashed at the right occasions. What a letdown.

While Greene was moderately convincing as the arch antagonist, his sidekick Elvis is definitely the most useless henchman any villain can hope to have. Useless and utterly forgettable. What happened to the likes of Red Grant, Necros and Stamper? Even the diminutive Nick Nack did a better job in avenging his dead employer.

Seems you missed the point of the character. Of course he's useless! He's supposed to be.

Another copycat element is the traditional gun barrel theme. Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan. Why didn’t he develop his own distinctive style like Lazenby or Moore? Why imitate the other Bonds? And why the hurry when strolling across the screen? Can’t wait to wrap up the film, Mr. Craig? It’s supposed to be a stroll, remember?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're the types of fans who wanted the gunbarrel back, now that you got it you still bitch.

In conclusion, QoS is a below average installment that dishes out more disappointments and frustration than any of the previous Bonds. I see eye to eye with Graham Rye’s scorching assessment on this. Hopefully the producers are taking note of this before the making of Bond #23.

I hope the producers are taking note of how successful this movie is doing. And how (despite a minority) many people enjoy the new "fresh" take on Bond. I hope Bond 23 is just as daring as this one.

Success of any movie cannot be measured merely by looking into its box-office collection. Both in terms of quality and quantity, QoS left a lot to be desired. This cannot go on indefinitely. Bring back the Bond we know and come to love. This Jason Bourne copycat stops right here, right now!

[DR76]

QoS hardly feels like a Bond film. More like the latest Bourne installment. As such it lacks the kind of originality one has come to expect in a 007 thriller

Yes.
'cause the Brosnans and late Moores are so genuinely original as hell.

And most of the Connerys.

Both in terms of quality and quantity, QoS left a lot to be desired. This cannot go on indefinitely. Bring back the Bond we know and come to love. This Jason Bourne copycat stops right here, right now!

Why don't EON Productions just end the Bond franchise right now, if they decide to "bring back the Bond we know and love". I get so damn tired of the so-called Bond traditions. God, how unoriginal! I'm still peeved at "GOLDFINGER" for starting that crap.

Edited by DR76, 03 December 2008 - 05:55 AM.

[gkgyver]

Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan.

There are only so many times one can walk and shoot without looking repetitive.

Exactly!

On the contrary, there are still many ways to strike an original pose. I'm sure the producers can think up of a few. Talk about creative imagination!

Are you serious?
No, wait! Really, I mean, are you *serious*?
You're actually giving Quantum Of Solace some crap because Daniel Craig doesn't in your mind hit the right pose in the gunbarrel?

That could almost make me laugh.

[Scaramanga'74]

Craig’s pose vividly brings to mind Dalton and Brosnan.

There are only so many times one can walk and shoot without looking repetitive.

Exactly!

On the contrary, there are still many ways to strike an original pose. I'm sure the producers can think up of a few. Talk about creative imagination!

Are you serious?
No, wait! Really, I mean, are you *serious*?
You're actually giving Quantum Of Solace some crap because Daniel Craig doesn't in your mind hit the right pose in the gunbarrel?

That could almost make me laugh.

It's not a question of right pose, buddy. Original, just like all the previous Bonds. Close imitations just don't work in a Bond movie. It's rip-off, nothing more, nothing less.

If Craig wishes to stamp his distinctive mark on the character, he should begin right on with the gun-barrel scene. Be creative, make it original. That's the Bond we admire.

[JimmyBond]

A brief sequence that is pretty small potatoes when you think about it does not make or break a Bond film.

[gkgyver]

Monsieur Scaramanga, you honestly read like you're being constantly sarcastic.

Because I can't possibly imagine anyone making such a huge fuss about such a little thing.

"These pretzels are making me thirsty!"

[00Twelve]

It's not a question of right pose, buddy. Original, just like all the previous Bonds. Close imitations just don't work in a Bond movie. It's rip-off, nothing more, nothing less.

If Craig wishes to stamp his distinctive mark on the character, he should begin right on with the gun-barrel scene. Be creative, make it original. That's the Bond we admire.

Since when have the Bond actors improvised their own gunbarrel walk?

From the creative standpoint, choreographical sequences like the gunbarrel are planned and directed by the guy with that title, and the actor does as told. The only thing the actor can do is put his own personality into it.

Laz didn't just decide to drop to a knee (am I wrong, DNS?).
Moore didn't just decide to brace his gun-arm in his first GB pose.

Likewise, Craig did what he was probably told to do, which was a very purposeful walk and a quick spin-and-fire move that would surprise the owner of the GB. Seems like that to me, and I'm not in need of wishful thinking about movies like this. Just added up.

As it stands, it's probably one of THE most practical GB sequences in the series. Bond looks to be heading somewhere with no apparent thought to the gun trained on him, and BAM!! He gets the drop on the shooter. Looked much more convincing than Connery's GB, that's for damn sure.

[Judo chop]

If Craig wishes to stamp his distinctive mark on the character, he should begin right on with the gun-barrel scene. Be creative, make it original. That's the Bond we admire.

Maybe he shouldn’t have fired the gun at all?

A BLUFF! That would have been cool.

Oh, and then he should have said, “Bond. James Bond.”, ‘cause I noticed that was missing in the movie.

[gkgyver]

No, he should have pointed his index finger and shout "BANG!"

[plankattack]

Oh, and then he should have said, “Bond. James Bond.”, ‘cause I noticed that was missing in the movie.

Judo, my friend. I have the solution. He turns and fires....

A MASSIVE SPACE LASER

and everyone goes home happy...

[Judo chop]

Oh, and then he should have said, “Bond. James Bond.”, ‘cause I noticed that was missing in the movie.

Judo, my friend. I have the solution. He turns and fires....

A MASSIVE SPACE LASER

And we hear Roger’s voiceover as the screen goes ultra-vibrant red…

“TURN OFF THE BLOODY MOVIE!”

[Christopher006]

Bill has it totally right. I already said similar things on the "For Those That Didn't Like QOS, Come In!" thread. If you want to know some of my thoughts on the film, than visit that discussion. I would prefer it if people just read Bill's post. He pretty much nails it.

I don't think Casino Royale is anything perfect, but it is a far better picture for Craig. Like everyone else who is disappointed with QOS, I am hoping that Craig gets a better written and directed film.

I am a big enough Bond fan to visit even the weakest entries in the series once in a while. I am seriously thinking about not buying QOS on DVD and not ever seeing it again. It could have been so much better than what it is if only the filmmakers made better choices, thought things through, and knew what they were doing. If it wasn't for the good scenes between Craig and Dench, it would have been unwatchable.