3 replies to this topic

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I thought QoS was definitely better than Casino Royale, and Craig really won me over this time. I really only liked Casino Royale after the second time I saw it and took its "flaws" into consideration; my initial reaction was borderline dissapointment. With QoS, the first hour had its WTF moments, but it quickly shaped up into a classy, modern, action-packed, almost "European"/"art house" thriller; basically a Fleming Bond story for the present. I left the theater pumped, wanting to see what Eon will do next.

I watched CR before seeing QoS, and IMHO, alot of the dialogue in the former tried too hard. The "witty" banter between M and Bond and Vesper and Bond really got old quick.

A major improvement in QoS was I actually LIKED the Bond-Girls. How could Bond fall for Vesper? I hated her character in the film, and thought about how Connery's, or even Moore's Bond wouldn't put up with her uppity attitude, backtalk, and ultimate betrayal.

If Connery was Bond during the train scene, he would smack her in the mouth and laugh.

What did Bond see in her? In OHMSS I can definitely see, adn get the attraction to Tracy, and am ultimately upset when she was killed off. Even before Vesper's betrayal, I wasn't a fan of her attitude, despite Green's good looks (which weren't even that great compared to Kurylenko.)

Was her death really worth all the trouble to a hard- like Bond?

[eddychaput]

I think likes girls that are hard to get. Girls that don't give in so soon. Such was the case with Vesper, and so Bond went after her. Eventually she lets her defenses down, as does he, and they think they are perfect for each other. We'll never know because she gets killed.

I think that's part of the fun with this story, even though few people are discussing it. Were Vesper and Bond meant to be together? There's no way of knowing, and I think that it's what's frustrating Bond as well. He had a chance at happiness and it was taken away without him ever finding out if it would last. It was young love, Bond was head over heals for her beauty and sure they would last forever, but that dream was cut short.

That's my own interpretation of this plot line mind you. I think a lot of people are taking for granted that Vesper/Bond were simply meant to be and now he's pissed because of that. I prefer the ambiguous approach. Everyone is telling him that Vesper loved him. Maybe she did, but was she worth it is an excellent question. What if she wasn't though? What better reason for Bond to finally become the cool bastard we know?

Trust no one in the spy business: even beautiful women.

Edited by eddychaput, 15 November 2008 - 05:39 PM.

[baerrtt]

I thought QoS was definitely better than Casino Royale, and Craig really won me over this time. I really only liked Casino Royale after the second time I saw it and took its "flaws" into consideration; my initial reaction was borderline dissapointment. With QoS, the first hour had its WTF moments, but it quickly shaped up into a classy, modern, action-packed, almost "European"/"art house" thriller; basically a Fleming Bond story for the present. I left the theater pumped, wanting to see what Eon will do next.

I watched CR before seeing QoS, and IMHO, alot of the dialogue in the former tried too hard. The "witty" banter between M and Bond and Vesper and Bond really got old quick.

A major improvement in QoS was I actually LIKED the Bond-Girls. How could Bond fall for Vesper? I hated her character in the film, and thought about how Connery's, or even Moore's Bond wouldn't put up with her uppity attitude, backtalk, and ultimate betrayal.

If Connery was Bond during the train scene, he would smack her in the mouth and laugh.

What did Bond see in her? In OHMSS I can definitely see, adn get the attraction to Tracy, and am ultimately upset when she was killed off. Even before Vesper's betrayal, I wasn't a fan of her attitude, despite Green's good looks (which weren't even that great compared to Kurylenko.)

Was her death really worth all the trouble to a hard- like Bond?

The Bond we see at the beginning of CR is a man who, despite his defiant 'I kill bad guys, hence my methods are justified' attitude on the surface is internally tiring of a job that no longer has any moral certainties. Vesper, like him, shows a surface personality that appears constructed to keep people at a distance and when he kills Obanno and his henchman her terrified reaction gives way to a very vulnerable, troubled and secretive woman.

You're left with two people who ARE alike in many ways and Bond feels that if they leave a 'world' which ultimately(and that's the key tragedy in CR) has damaged them more than it's done them good they can live and act as real people and not the ones hiding behind manufactured and practiced arrogance (their witty banter on the train).

The point of QOS is that, in the end, he couldn't use the excuse of Vesper's death to justify him slipping into the abyss Camille is in when after killing the general she genuinely has no idea what's left to do in her life.

It's funny because whilst the 'revenge' angle in QOS isn't new for action films or Bond this is one of the few films in the genre that ends with it's hero realising that revenge is a selfish pursuit that doesn't benefit the person(s) your avenging. Particularly if they're dead and you can't exactly know what they would have wanted you to do on their behalf.

[Kristian]

I thought QoS was definitely better than Casino Royale, and Craig really won me over this time. I really only liked Casino Royale after the second time I saw it and took its "flaws" into consideration; my initial reaction was borderline dissapointment. With QoS, the first hour had its WTF moments, but it quickly shaped up into a classy, modern, action-packed, almost "European"/"art house" thriller; basically a Fleming Bond story for the present. I left the theater pumped, wanting to see what Eon will do next.

I watched CR before seeing QoS, and IMHO, alot of the dialogue in the former tried too hard. The "witty" banter between M and Bond and Vesper and Bond really got old quick.

A major improvement in QoS was I actually LIKED the Bond-Girls. How could Bond fall for Vesper? I hated her character in the film, and thought about how Connery's, or even Moore's Bond wouldn't put up with her uppity attitude, backtalk, and ultimate betrayal.

If Connery was Bond during the train scene, he would smack her in the mouth and laugh.

What did Bond see in her? In OHMSS I can definitely see, adn get the attraction to Tracy, and am ultimately upset when she was killed off. Even before Vesper's betrayal, I wasn't a fan of her attitude, despite Green's good looks (which weren't even that great compared to Kurylenko.)

Was her death really worth all the trouble to a hard- like Bond?

The Bond we see at the beginning of CR is a man who, despite his defiant 'I kill bad guys, hence my methods are justified' attitude on the surface is internally tiring of a job that no longer has any moral certainties. Vesper, like him, shows a surface personality that appears constructed to keep people at a distance and when he kills Obanno and his henchman her terrified reaction gives way to a very vulnerable, troubled and secretive woman.

You're left with two people who ARE alike in many ways and Bond feels that if they leave a 'world' which ultimately(and that's the key tragedy in CR) has damaged them more than it's done them good they can live and act as real people and not the ones hiding behind manufactured and practiced arrogance (their witty banter on the train).

The point of QOS is that, in the end, he couldn't use the excuse of Vesper's death to justify him slipping into the abyss Camille is in when after killing the general she genuinely has no idea what's left to do in her life.

It's funny because whilst the 'revenge' angle in QOS isn't new for action films or Bond this is one of the few films in the genre that ends with it's hero realising that revenge is a selfish pursuit that doesn't benefit the person(s) your avenging. Particularly if they're dead and you can't exactly know what they would have wanted you to do on their behalf.

I thought that the romance in CR progressed too quickly. I also found Eva Green too cold in the role. I don't understand why Bond fell for her so fast. Now, if they'd cast Rose Byrne, who was the closest contender, I could see how Bond would fall for her...

I thought QoS was definitely better than Casino Royale, and Craig really won me over this time. I really only liked Casino Royale after the second time I saw it and took its "flaws" into consideration; my initial reaction was borderline dissapointment. With QoS, the first hour had its WTF moments, but it quickly shaped up into a classy, modern, action-packed, almost "European"/"art house" thriller; basically a Fleming Bond story for the present. I left the theater pumped, wanting to see what Eon will do next.

I watched CR before seeing QoS, and IMHO, alot of the dialogue in the former tried too hard. The "witty" banter between M and Bond and Vesper and Bond really got old quick.

A major improvement in QoS was I actually LIKED the Bond-Girls. How could Bond fall for Vesper? I hated her character in the film, and thought about how Connery's, or even Moore's Bond wouldn't put up with her uppity attitude, backtalk, and ultimate betrayal.

If Connery was Bond during the train scene, he would smack her in the mouth and laugh.

What did Bond see in her? In OHMSS I can definitely see, adn get the attraction to Tracy, and am ultimately upset when she was killed off. Even before Vesper's betrayal, I wasn't a fan of her attitude, despite Green's good looks (which weren't even that great compared to Kurylenko.)

Was her death really worth all the trouble to a hard- like Bond?

The Bond we see at the beginning of CR is a man who, despite his defiant 'I kill bad guys, hence my methods are justified' attitude on the surface is internally tiring of a job that no longer has any moral certainties. Vesper, like him, shows a surface personality that appears constructed to keep people at a distance and when he kills Obanno and his henchman her terrified reaction gives way to a very vulnerable, troubled and secretive woman.

You're left with two people who ARE alike in many ways and Bond feels that if they leave a 'world' which ultimately(and that's the key tragedy in CR) has damaged them more than it's done them good they can live and act as real people and not the ones hiding behind manufactured and practiced arrogance (their witty banter on the train).

The point of QOS is that, in the end, he couldn't use the excuse of Vesper's death to justify him slipping into the abyss Camille is in when after killing the general she genuinely has no idea what's left to do in her life.

It's funny because whilst the 'revenge' angle in QOS isn't new for action films or Bond this is one of the few films in the genre that ends with it's hero realising that revenge is a selfish pursuit that doesn't benefit the person(s) your avenging. Particularly if they're dead and you can't exactly know what they would have wanted you to do on their behalf.

I thought that the romance in CR progressed too quickly. I also found Eva Green too cold in the role. I don't understand why Bond fell for her so fast. Now, if they'd cast Rose Byrne, who was the closest contender, I could see how Bond would fall for her...