82 replies to this topic

[deth]

so they wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond... make Bond cold and ruthless... fine. I enjoyed QOS, but the one thing that stood out was the terrible disrespect given to Mathis' body. He could have left it anywhere really... he knew they were going to find it. Why the symbolism of tossing him out with the trash? I'm clearly not the only one who felt this, as the audience also started murmuring at this treatment... quite out of character for Bond. He may be Bond, but as this film supposedly shows, he's also human.

[Gri007]

Good point deth. I have wondered about this myself. It did seem a bit out of place to why Bond would just dump his friend/allie in trash bin. What else he could have done with him I'm not to sure, but surely there could have been a better way. The death of Mathis did seem Fleming, even though he was never killed of in literiture form, but Bond just dumping him like he did just isn't Bond like. He could have had the descency of placing his coat over him.

[Mr_Wint]

It is a really strange scene that doesn't make sense at all. What's even more awkward is that Vespers theme is played over it. I have no idea what the filmmakers tried to say. "Let's film Mathis in a container from a distance - that will look good!"

[mccartney007]

I don't have a problem with it because I think it's very much his character. Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead. The remains of the body aren't anything but the leftovers of life and treating it any differently isn't going to bring back the person who died.

It didn't seem to bother Mathis hiding a couple of corpses in some guy's trunk after all.

It's just the business.

[Major Tallon]

I don't have a problem with it because I think it's very much his character. Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead. The remains of the body aren't anything but the leftovers of life and treating it any differently isn't going to bring back the person who died.

It didn't seem to bother Mathis hiding a couple of corpses in some guy's trunk after all.

It's just the business.

Exactly.

[deth]

but why go out of your way to treat the body with disrespect? He knew they weren't going to leave the body in the trash bin, so therefore one would assume Bond was making a point. I don't get it. He could have just left him in the street, or moved him off to the side... but the way it was left, the bad cops got better treatment after death than Mathis.

[mccartney007]

but why go out of your way to treat the body with disrespect? He knew they weren't going to leave the body in the trash bin, so therefore one would assume Bond was making a point. I don't get it. He could have just left him in the street, or moved him off to the side... but the way it was left, the bad cops got better treatment after death than Mathis.

Maybe Bond put the body in the dumpster to avoid Mathis becoming a spectacle of passersby? The authorities would search the area and find Mathis whereas a regular person isn't going to go rooting around the area once they find the bodies of the two officers.

[007Travis]

Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead.

It's just the business.

I agree, that sums it up.

[deth]

Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead.

It's just the business.

I agree, that sums it up.

but it's not just business. If it was, he would have left him where he was.

[Shot Your Bolt]

I can see why he might have done it with the above explanation, but I still think its stupid that he put his friend in a dumpster. Business is business sure, but you its just so awkward to have this emotional scene and then just dump him(pun not intended).

[dee-bee-five]

so they wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond... make Bond cold and ruthless... fine. I enjoyed QOS, but the one thing that stood out was the terrible disrespect given to Mathis' body. He could have left it anywhere really... he knew they were going to find it. Why the symbolism of tossing him out with the trash? I'm clearly not the only one who felt this, as the audience also started murmuring at this treatment... quite out of character for Bond. He may be Bond, but as this film supposedly shows, he's also human.

It was the one thing that jarred with me, too, and I said so in my review. On subsequent viewings, it seemed less so and more expediency on Bond's part. But I do think he comes over as more callous than, perhaps, the filmmakers intended.

[Pam Bouvier]

I found the scene a little surprising, but not out of character, especially given the brief exchange between Bond and Mathis right before Mathis died. They were both professionals in a profession where death a constant companion.

I shouldn't have been surprised that Bond disposed of a lifeless corpse efficiently and discreetly. I agree with Bond. Mathis wouldn't have cared.

[mario007]

I think you hit it on the head Pam Bouvier ... this bond is all about 'efficency' ... a theme that runs through the film. The most efficent way for bond at the time was the dumpster, as opposed to leaving the body on the street ... Plus, he does say that Mathis would not have cared!

[eddychaput]

I can understand the arguments that support this scene, but it's not getting good reactions from a lot of fans. I this may have backfired actually. It is a pretty cold thing for Bond to do. As badass as Bond is in my mind, I would not have made him do that had I written the script. It's a little bit too much.

[Mister E]

People seem to forget that Bond and Camille had very little time on there hands and the police on their trail. Mathis would not have cared because there was no time for a burial or morning.

[craigforlani007]

maybe its because the fact that he does not care anymore. Remember at the end of the movie he says somethin like the dead don't care about vengeance. He puts Mathis in the trash bin because he knows that Mathis would not have cared even if hes dead. My way of thinking

[deth]

I see all your arguments for it... but yet, wouldn't the most efficient, business-like manner to have gone about it been to have left the body where it was? It's not like they weren't going to find him soon enough anyway.

[sorking]

I see all your arguments for it... but yet, wouldn't the most efficient, business-like manner to have gone about it been to have left the body where it was? It's not like they weren't going to find him soon enough anyway.

Every extra minute counts. A body found on the street two minutes later risks a manhunt. A body not found till morning...well, by then Bond and Camille are over the Tierra project. Well out of the way.

[MystikTK]

Most people at the screening I attended simply laughed at this scene, rather than being upset by it anyway.

As for the scene itself, I see it as illustrating how death is handled in Bond's world. When one dies in this line of work, they are simply no longer useful and they are forgotten. There is no time for mourning. Trevelyan made a comment in Goldeneye about the anonymity of the dead and thats what we have here.

[dogmanstar]

I agree with sorking--Bond has to 'hide' Mathis' body--because the longer it takes the police to figure out what has happened here the more time Bond gets to escape. He can't hide him too well--they can't overlook him. But I just saw it as a very serious poke in the eye to the authorities.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

It's just the business.

Quite so, same with taking the money. I had no problem with it.

[SecretAgentFan]

It is a really strange scene that doesn't make sense at all. What's even more awkward is that Vespers theme is played over it. I have no idea what the filmmakers tried to say. "Let's film Mathis in a container from a distance - that will look good!"

Sorry, but before stating that it does not make sense at all, please think a bit more about it.

Yes, it is very harsh. And it irritates.

I guess that exactly is the point. And not in a cynical "hey, let´s shock the audience" way.

Instead, it reveals Bond´s character and intentions.

He knows that Mathis was killed by Quantum in order to set him up as the killer and therefore be stopped by his own superiors.

But Bond won´t be stopped. Dropping Mathis´ body in the trash signals that Mathis was just used by Quantum as collateral and literally as "trash". It also signals that Bond is so determined to go on fighting Quantum that he would even throw his friend´s body in the trash.

What do you think, Mr. Wint?

[double o ego]

I don't have a problem with it because I think it's very much his character. Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead. The remains of the body aren't anything but the leftovers of life and treating it any differently isn't going to bring back the person who died.

It didn't seem to bother Mathis hiding a couple of corpses in some guy's trunk after all.

It's just the business.

Bingo.

[Mojito133]

After all, Mathis wouldn't care.

[Emma]

People seem to forget that Bond and Camille had very little time on there hands and the police on their trail. Mathis would not have cared because there was no time for a burial or morning.

This did cross my mind when I saw the scene. They had little time on their hands and Bond wanted to give Mathis some type of burial. But if that was the case then why didn't Bond say something along those lines to Camille when she voiced her objections?

[Hockey Mask]

As the scene unfolded I thought the purpose was to make it look like a robbery. Hence the reason he came back and took the money from his wallet.

This didn't seem to be the intention though.

[delfloria]

Look at the area they are in. This was one of the better places to put the body so that feral dogs did not make a meal of the body.

[00Twelve]

I don't have a problem with it because I think it's very much his character. Both Bond and Mathis have seen their fair share of death and they know that once you're dead, you're dead. The remains of the body aren't anything but the leftovers of life and treating it any differently isn't going to bring back the person who died.

It didn't seem to bother Mathis hiding a couple of corpses in some guy's trunk after all.

It's just the business.

Bingo.

Of course Bond could have furrowed his brow, covered Mathis' face with a piece of newspaper, and said "No more problems" to no one in particular.

[Tarl_Cabot]

That scene shows how much of a pro Bond is(M to Bond:"I need you to assess the situation disspassionately"). He also took the money out of his wallet to make it look like a street crime.I wasn't offended but I was dissapointed they killed off a great character.

[AgentBentley]

It looked like a cruel end for a great character.