178 replies to this topic

[Tiin007]

For the most part I think QoS works, and I like it. I admit it's not exactly how I envisioned the sequel to CR, and a fleshed out plotline of 2.5 hours would've been ideal. But nonetheless, the connective tissue is still there and I can appreciate the film's individual flair. It's quite entertaining.

 

My thoughts exactly, sharpshooter.

 

One of the highlights of CR for me was that the plot felt fleshed out-- as did the characters and the Bond-Vesper relationship. Putting effort into making Vesper more than just your average Bond girl elevated the film from simply a great Bond flick to an iconic entry. 

 

With QoS, given that it was intended to be a direct sequel to CR (we've never had so many recurring characters in the vein of Felix, Mathis, and White), the revenge / personal aspect seems to have been shoved to the side in favor of a somewhat half-baked "stealing Bolivia's water supply" concept. If there was ever a film to showcase Bond driven by revenge, it was this one.

 

But, as you said, QoS does work on its own merits, and adds some good stuff to the Bond universe. 

 

It's the comparisons to CR which really hurt it. 

 

Ironically, I often lament the "this time it's personal" aspect which has pervaded the past few entries. Yet this was the one film (apart from LTK) where that type of concept did not feel shoe-horned in. The personal elements should have been applied in larger doses. A real missed opportunity, in my mind. If there was a way to remove some of the personal emphasis in SP and transfer it to QoS, both films would benefit tremendously. 

[plankattack]

Typical of me not to have an opinion on the thread itself but......

The only thing I'd change is the sense that QoS needs to be changed. I acknowledge how controversial it was amongst us when it came out and while I've always been a fan of it, my admiration for it has only grown over the years. Whether by accident or on purpose, IMHO it works on a couple of levels (read Jim's 007th Minute for a much more informed opinion) and I challenge anyone to promote another film in the series as more atmospheric or stylish - it's a great looking film, both in visuals and in "image."

And yet.....it hits a nerve with all of us that we either feel the need to defend it or "change" it. Which leads me to surmise that while there is a whole load of us fans who don't like it, there should (counter intuitively) be an acceptance that it's not a "bad" film - that there is enough good there to be improved upon.

Put it this way, there are "bad" films in the franchise (excuse me if I mention one that's your favourite!!) but there doesn't seem to any threads asking us what we would change about TMWTGG or AVTAK, or TWINE! ("Where do you start?" I hear the wags amongst you cry!). Again I like QoS alot, and for all it's tortured production, questionnable editing, sense of CR-unfinished, whatever, it's a film that continually sparks and merits discussion.

What would you change about YOLT, anyone????

[SecretAgentFan]

I love QOS.  Yet, I do see its shortcomings which could have been improved.  They weren´t.  Doesn´t spoil it for me.

 

Maybe it´s harder to accept since QOS had the potential to be even better, in contrast to other films which turned out as good as they could be under the circumstances. YOLT does come to mind as one that could not have been more than it is, due to the conditions it was made under.

[S K Y F A L L]

I'm not crazy about the theme song, Alicia Keys alone would have been good enough for me. Also not to keen on the plane chase and parachute sequences. 

[Odd Jobbies]

I'm not crazy about the theme song, Alicia Keys alone would have been good enough for me. Also not to keen on the plane chase and parachute sequences. 

Jack White alone would've been good enough for me

 

But, yeah that plane / parachute sequence was awful; they just happened to fall into a hole in the ground.... now that's lucky!  

 

That hole in the ground just happened to have a damned reservoir inside it.... very lucky indeed  :/

[Messervy]

Re-re-re-rewatched it again not long ago. I wouldn't change much, really. I love the pace, I love the direction and editing, I love the acting, I love the sets, I love the overall vibe. One of my favorite entries, actually.

That being said, I would change:
- the title song, which is disastrous.
- the villain's screen time and character development, which would hugely benefit from some 5/10 minutes more.
- the parachute fall, which is wrong for all the reasons stated above (not well done + too convenient).

[hoagy]

The convenience of the parachute fall into the cave which revealed the reservoir could have been fixed easily.  Earlier, arrange for Bond to have a divining rod with him in the plane. Show it vibrate a few times as they approach the Big Hole In The Ground.  Voila !  (By the way I would have added specially-bred fresh-water sharks in the reservoir to keep the locals away, with some local legend-spreading to help -- a la the Dragon in DN.  An homage, as they say, at least, as those who know how to pronounce it say.  Me, I stick with typing the term.)

Also, OK, it was cool and mature that Bond did not fall into bed with his heroine comrade-in-arms, but some sweet-horizontal-mambo time for Oh-Oh-Seven ! and his outrageously lovely companion might have helped de-dour the proceedings.  Live for today and all that.  Come on, she made whoopee with the baldy price-bar tattoed Timothy Olyphant in the first Hitman movie, and he had thrown her in the trunk (very Transporter-ish, but no one is saying the entire Hitman story had to be Original, amirite ?  By the way, did that movie show or did that movie show that whew ! producers dodged a bullet pulling away from Dougray Scott as a Bond candidate, amirightagainorwhat ?).

OK, so, I have read the film was negatively affected by the writers' strike, but, well, a great action sequence was damaged by over-coincidence (even though, as Felix Leiter said in text, "nothing propinks like propinquity !", while driving the Studillac, if I remember correctly), and a bonding -- perhaps not a romance -- could have been (a) logical and ( helpful, for the two heroes.

I liked very much the Opera scene -- Masterful -- and Bond escaping MI6 as he departed his hotel.  The evil plot was interesting and real-world, and the villain slimy and nasty.  The end for Agent Fields (alas, this Strawberry Fields did not approach "forever") was well-done, too.

Agreed with others, as well, that the song was lame, and quite disappointing, given the significant talents involved.

For once, it was a Bond that needed not trimming, but adding.

[S K Y F A L L]

I forgot one thing, the gun barrel at the beginning.

[hilly]

*whispers*

I actually really like the theme song now.

 

It took a couple of years, but it grew on me. It suited the fairly frenetic pace of the film and, as with a lot of Bond themes, worked far better once heard when watching the opening titles.

[sharpshooter]

I don't hate the song with the passion of one million suns anymore. But I still think it's the weakest main title song of the Craig era. It went down like a lead balloon. 

[hilly]

I prefer it to the Sam Smith one, which just doesn't seem to fit with the film itself.

The other three have been a fairly good match in terms of tone, style and mood.

[sharpshooter]

The melody of Smith's song is superior to my ears. It's more refined and classy, even if his vocal style isn't to everyone's taste.

[SecretAgentFan]

The melody of Smith's song is superior to my ears. It's more refined and classy, even if his vocal style isn't to everyone's taste.

 

Hear, hear.

 

"Another way to die" is "The Man with the golden gun" of the Craig era.

[dtuba]

What would I change? Not much.

 

I would shuffle a few things around. I would take the gunbarrel / title card at the end and put in in the beginning. And not where Bond opens the boot, either. That always seemed like an awkward place to end the PTS. I would start with the car chase, then the interrogation, than the foot chase. When they grapple on the scaffolding and Bond grabs his gun and fires up, then I would freeze the frame and go right into the gunbarrel. After the title card, then cut to the scene of Bond arriving at Mitchell's apartment. It would mirror the gunbarrel placement we saw in CR, and do you really need the extended title sequence at the beginning?

 

All the other titles and the Jack White song (yeah I would dump Alicia Keys, she adds nothing) would immediately follow the necklace in the snow scene.

 

One last thing: I would fire the editors, or at least take their caffeinated energy drinks away.

 

As it stands, it is a very enjoyable, if flawed, entry and I still like it way more than SP.

[Darthyan]

One thing I would do is add more run time to it. And focus more on Bond trying to get revenge on White. Emphasize that and how maybe he lets go in the end.

 

This sets up Spectre's rise by accident. But either way he gets revenge by completely destroying the organization that ruined Vesper

[Gobi-1]

First and foremost bring back Daniel Kleinman to do the credits, slow down the frantic editing, put the camera on a tripod, and end the film with a better gunbarrel. That's about it. I still like QoS very much and think its highly underrated.

[sharpshooter]

First and foremost bring back Daniel Kleinman to do the credits, slow down the frantic editing, put the camera on a tripod, and end the film with a better gunbarrel.  I still like QoS very much and think its highly underrated.

That's all fair criticism. And I agree about QoS being underrated. It's almost like a hidden gem buried amongst Casino Royale and Skyfall. I think one of QoS's biggest assets is a young Daniel Craig. This film made made NINE years ago! 

[Tiin007]

It's a shame we won't see a young Daniel Craig again. The four year gap between QoS and SF really put an end to Craig's relative youth. Even if he does one or two more, most of his films will have been made after the vitality which at first defined the Craig years had diminished. 

[Mr_Wint]

Ageing is unavoidable.

[Tiin007]

Ageing is unavoidable. 

 

 

Right, but I am lamenting the arguably avoidable gap between QoS and SF (and between SP and Bond 25). 

[Gobi-1]

 

Ageing is unavoidable. 

 

 

Right, but I am lamenting the arguably avoidable gap between QoS and SF (and between SP and Bond 25). 

 

 

But those gaps were unavoidable do to MGM's financial troubles. They do pay for the movies.

[Grard Bond]

It's not about the actually gaps itself, but the gap between a young rookie Bond from CR and the "so called too old" Bond from Skyfall. What happened to the Craig Bond in his best years as agent 007?

Edited by Grard Bond, 02 July 2017 - 08:17 PM.

[Tiin007]

It's not about the actually gaps itself, but the gap between a young rookie Bond from CR and the "so called too old" Bond from Skyfall. What happened to the Craig Bond in his best years as agent 007?

 

This is what happens when EON insist every Bond movie has deep emotional resonance and a character arc. Yes, in theory both of those could have been accomplished without skipping over Bond's best years, but the folks at EON evidently disagree...

[dtuba]

Drawing upon that....I would like to change my answer please. What I would change about QOS, would be I wouldn't change anything at all, I would instead wish for a fun, thrilling, and (relatively) lighthearted Bond film to be released in 2010.

[DaveBond21]

Editing, editing, editing.

 

The action scene editing is awful, and I much prefer the style of editing in Skyfall and Spectre.

 

Otherwise, I really like Quantum of Solace. In particular, it really has some excellent "Bond moments" without harking to the past (too much).

[Professor Pi]

Its references to Spy Who Loved Me seem kind of incongruous to the tone of the film.  His cover name of Robert Sterling to he and Camille walking across the desert ala Bond and Anya '77 recall a fun Bond film, whereas QoS is more in sync with OHMSS and FYEO.  That and the Goldfinger reference take me out of the film.

 

Also, though it's been resolved with SPECTRE, they set up Mr. White to be the villain and then just abandon that story line.  The ending isn't really satisfying.

Oh, and not sure anyone mentioned this, but the title sequence is not up to par (to say nothing of the song.)  I wish they used Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye" or almost any other alternate QoS song that was submitted.

[winstoninabox]

Oh, and not sure anyone mentioned this, but the title sequence is not up to par (to say nothing of the song.)  I wish they used Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye" or almost any other alternate QoS song that was submitted.

 

I didn't know about "No Good About Goodbye", so thanks for that. After listening to it I like the song, but feel that it'd work better during the end credits after the pace of the film has slowed with the final sequence. The opening credits need a faster paced song to bridge the frenetic opening sequence and foot chase which is soon to follow. "Another Way to Die" does a great job of keeping the audience in an excited frame of mind between the two action pieces.

[Professor Pi]

Agreed.  For the opener, check Eva Almer's "Forever -- I Am All Yours."

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zg2dXY9TOKA

[Hockey Mask]

Agreed. For the opener, check Eva Almer's "Forever -- I Am All Yours."

I like her voice but the song doesn't have much of a hook.