151 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

If THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM had a bigger opening in the States and larger American gross than QUANTUM OF SOLACE, does it mean that THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is the better film?

(Mind you, I think THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is a better film than QUANTUM OF SOLACE - I'm just interested in seeing how people judge quality.)

[HildebrandRarity]

I apologise if I came across as dumping on OHMSS. I think it's a top 5 Bond film with the BEST score of the 22, the BEST female lead performance of them all, stunning cinematography, outstanding skiing and stunt work. Lazenby moves well eventhough he's shortchanged by dialogue that's added MANY times in post production.

There is MORE to like about OHMSS as a WHOLE than over 75 percent of Bond films.

It's a Christmas tradition in my household. It's the only movie of ANY KIND that has been consistently shown at my place for years and years around the Holy Night season.

How's that?

[avl]

If THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM had a bigger opening in the States and larger American gross than QUANTUM OF SOLACE, does it mean that THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is the better film?

(Mind you, I think THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is a better film than QUANTUM OF SOLACE - I'm just interested in seeing how people judge quality.)

No - I don't judge quality by Box Office performance. It would of course mean Ultimatum was more popular in the US.

Great film Ultimatum - and I see Variety report that Universal have tied up Ludlum's estate for an exclusive deal...

[doublenoughtspy]

Awesome!

That you mention the cinematography shows me that you really know your stuff.

I've had numerous conversations about it with the late Peter Hunt, Cinematographer Michael Reed, and Cameraman Alec Mills.

It is so amazingly photographed.

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

I don't think I can put into words how much that meant that I got the call.

[sharpshooter]

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

Wow, I’m in some distinguished company. And yes, OHMSS is the best.

[HildebrandRarity]

Awesome!

That you mention the cinematography shows me that you really know your stuff.

I've had numerous conversations about it with the late Peter Hunt, Cinematographer Michael Reed, and Cameraman Alec Mills.

It is so amazingly photographed.

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

I don't think I can put into words how much that meant that I got the call.

Well, Charles, I feel genuinely honoured to have you in the debate. And I mean that with all sincerity.

[Loomis]

If THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM had a bigger opening in the States and larger American gross than QUANTUM OF SOLACE, does it mean that THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is the better film?

(Mind you, I think THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM is a better film than QUANTUM OF SOLACE - I'm just interested in seeing how people judge quality.)

No - I don't judge quality by Box Office performance. It would of course mean Ultimatum was more popular in the US.

Great film Ultimatum - and I see Variety report that Universal have tied up Ludlum's estate for an exclusive deal...

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

[avl]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

[Zorin Industries]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

Now, there people go believing what they are told online again...

Who said 2011...?

[avl]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

Now, there people go believing what they are told online again...

Who said 2011...?

I thought that's what Wilson hinted...
Just imagine the headlines if Bond and Bourne go head to head in the same year...

[Zorin Industries]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

Now, there people go believing what they are told online again...

Who said 2011...?

I thought that's what Wilson hinted...
Just imagine the headlines if Bond and Bourne go head to head in the same year...

Well just imagine the scenario that MGM who will have sole ownership of distribution rights are not prepared to wait three years for their only cash cow (Bond) to make money for them...Just a thought....

And Bourne IV is not set in stone for any year right now anyway...

[DamnCoffee]

Yes!

Still, Bond would thrash Bourne into 2012. There will be no competition.

[avl]

Yes!

Still, Bond would thrash Bourne into 2012. There will be no competition.

he he. But there would be competition - the like of which we have not known in our lifetimes! It would be war! Forget OP v NSNA, forget Oasis v Blur...

It would be fascinating. High risk, but fascinating.

[Loomis]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

Now, there people go believing what they are told online again...

Who said 2011...?

I thought that's what Wilson hinted...
Just imagine the headlines if Bond and Bourne go head to head in the same year...

Well just imagine the scenario that MGM who will have sole ownership of distribution rights are not prepared to wait three years for their only cash cow (Bond) to make money for them...Just a thought....

And Bourne IV is not set in stone for any year right now anyway...

Nothing's set in stone. However, as things stand, it looks likely that:

BOURNE 4 and BOND 23 will be both be released in 2010, Bourne emerging in the summer and Bond appearing roundabout November.

BOURNE 4 will humiliate BOND 23 at the American box office. On the other hand, BOND 23 will be the victor in terms of international grosses.

Both BOURNE 4 and BOND 23 will be very good films, and I shall be one happy fanboy in a year that I'm able to enjoy both.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Awesome!

That you mention the cinematography shows me that you really know your stuff.

I've had numerous conversations about it with the late Peter Hunt, Cinematographer Michael Reed, and Cameraman Alec Mills.

It is so amazingly photographed.

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

I don't think I can put into words how much that meant that I got the call.

Congratulations on that doublenoughtspy. Quite the feather in your cap there.

[mario007]

Are you guys serious? Bourne Ultimatum a good movie? It was a rehash of the second movie ... and the ending was awful! He ing volunteered! What a load of rubbish? QOS was much better with a real hero, not a panzy!

From now on borne is going to go on missions for the government or private organizations? or is it going to be something personal everytime? If he hates killing so much he should give up the spy business! Is he going to kill people in one movie and apologize for what he did in the next?

Edited by mario007, 22 November 2008 - 04:40 AM.

[Mister E]

He didn't do anything! The script just puts them together. One scene they're looking at each other from two separate rooms, Bond says something about stationery and takes off his jacket, and the next, they're in bed. Where the hell did that come from? There had never been any sexual tension leading up to that.

The whole Feild's affair was a homage to the "nobody does it better" side of Bond. He can get any gal in the sack with his charm and what added to it was seeing them both in bed. Also Craig just has WAY more sexual charisma then Brosnan ever did.

Bond had more chemistry and sexual tension with Camille than he did with Fields and it would have made more sense for him to bed Camille toward the end of the film than with Fields as written.

Remember that she saw her family raped by General Medrano as a child. That is almost as devistating as being raped herself so it made sense she would have reluctance to sleep with Bond. I am pretty sure Bond thought the same after he learned about her past.

[00Twelve]

Awesome!

That you mention the cinematography shows me that you really know your stuff.

I've had numerous conversations about it with the late Peter Hunt, Cinematographer Michael Reed, and Cameraman Alec Mills.

It is so amazingly photographed.

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

I don't think I can put into words how much that meant that I got the call.

WOW. I've been on here a solid six years now and knew that you're the OHMSS savant, but I had no idea that you were that involved. Holy crap.

The more I've gotten to know about the medium, the more respect I have for OHMSS from the photographical standpoint. I'm shocked at how underrated the "CASINO" shot is. One of the best shots in the series, IMO. And while the Alps need no help in looking beautiful, Hunt & Co. captured them in a way I've not seen done so well since.

Just my two cents-- not wanting to kiss any , but it's nice to geek out about the things you appreciate with other movie/Bond geeks.

[byline]

Sounds to me like you missed the point of the film. The point is not for Bond to kill him, the point is for Bond to realize that killing him isnt going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. Therefore he grew as a character.

Yup, IMO this was exactly the point.

[Vicious]

Bond had more chemistry and sexual tension with Camille than he did with Fields and it would have made more sense for him to bed Camille toward the end of the film than with Fields as written.

Ignoring Camille's background aside, people tend to be more careful with someone that they like. They don't usually want to jump straight into bed with the person. However, a casual fling with someone that you don't like as much but same amount of attraction is usually seen as okay since you're not planning to see the person again after the fling.

[Double-Oh Agent]

He didn't do anything! The script just puts them together. One scene they're looking at each other from two separate rooms, Bond says something about stationery and takes off his jacket, and the next, they're in bed. Where the hell did that come from? There had never been any sexual tension leading up to that.

The whole Feild's affair was a homage to the "nobody does it better" side of Bond. He can get any gal in the sack with his charm and what added to it was seeing them both in bed. Also Craig just has WAY more sexual charisma then Brosnan ever did.

Penthouse Forum letters have better setups and pickup lines than that scene. (Double-Oh Agent insert statement)

Bond had more chemistry and sexual tension with Camille than he did with Fields and it would have made more sense for him to bed Camille toward the end of the film than with Fields as written.

Remember that she saw her family raped by General Medrano as a child. That is almost as devistating as being raped herself so it made sense she would have reluctance to sleep with Bond. I am pretty sure Bond thought the same after he learned about her past.

And yet she slept with Dominic Greene. If she could do that with someone she had no feelings for, certainly she could have slept with Bond at the end.

Bond had more chemistry and sexual tension with Camille than he did with Fields and it would have made more sense for him to bed Camille toward the end of the film than with Fields as written.

Ignoring Camille's background aside, people tend to be more careful with someone that they like. They don't usually want to jump straight into bed with the person. However, a casual fling with someone that you don't like as much but same amount of attraction is usually seen as okay since you're not planning to see the person again after the fling.

But he wouldn't have jumped right into bed with her. They would have known each other for several days and experienced quite a bit together in the interim. And all things considered, Bond wouldn't see Camille again after their fling either. They would have gone their separate ways the following day.

[honeyjes]

My two pennies worth, Camille’s character does not associate sex with pleasure, but abuse, so I think it does make sense that they would not end up in bed together It would take more than several days together for her to want any man, she needs her own QOS.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

My two pennies worth, Camille’s character does not associate sex with pleasure, but abuse, so I think it does make sense that they would not end up in bed together It would take more than several days together for her to want any man, she needs her own QOS.

Couldn't agree more.

[dodge]

Awesome!

That you mention the cinematography shows me that you really know your stuff.

I've had numerous conversations about it with the late Peter Hunt, Cinematographer Michael Reed, and Cameraman Alec Mills.

It is so amazingly photographed.

BTW - when Hunt was involved with the first remastering of OHMSS, when they ran into questions about the brightness levels of certain scenes, Hunt couldn't recall certain details - so they called me.

I don't think I can put into words how much that meant that I got the call.

I'm so glad it worked out for you. I was too busy to talk to him then. By the way, I've also met The Happy Hooker, Gene Hackman, Brian Dennehy and Michael Caine. Sometimes it's fun being Dodge.

[byline]

Bond had more chemistry and sexual tension with Camille than he did with Fields and it would have made more sense for him to bed Camille toward the end of the film than with Fields as written.

Remember that she saw her family raped by General Medrano as a child. That is almost as devistating as being raped herself so it made sense she would have reluctance to sleep with Bond. I am pretty sure Bond thought the same after he learned about her past.

And yet she slept with Dominic Greene. If she could do that with someone she had no feelings for, certainly she could have slept with Bond at the end.

I see it differently. I see her using sex as a weapon, not as an act of intimacy, because, as a child, she saw sex used as an act of violence used against her family. So for her to be intimate with someone she cares about, she's going to need a lot of help working her way to that point. Bond, himself, is damaged, and so is in no position to offer her that emotional stability, even though he cares about her.

Right or wrong, Bond having sex with Fields was no different from him having sex with Solange (and countless other Bond women). He was using Fields to get information and/or manipulate the situation. But he also understood that Camille was at least as damaged as he was, and probably incapable of intimacy, so to treat her in that way would have been wrong. He made the right decision there.

Edited by byline, 22 November 2008 - 07:22 PM.

[marygoodnight]

For those of you that enjoyed the film, I'm happy for you. I'll end my very short review by quoting my girlfriend's even shorter one after we saw the film.

"Well, that sucked."
[/quote]

YOUR REVIEW SURELY HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

[byline]

Well, to each his/her own. Even on first viewing, while I wasn't as satisfied by the film as I wanted to be, I would not have said it "sucked." On second viewing, I caught a lot more and am feeling a whole lot happier about the film, especially as a continuation of "Casino Royale." Different strokes, and all. . . .

Edited by byline, 22 November 2008 - 07:33 PM.

[Roebuck]

Yeah, BOURNE 4's expected in 2010, with both Damon and Greengrass returning. Can't wait.

Is this why Bond 23 is expected in 2011...?

Yes. Neither franchise wants to risk going head to head with XxX 3

[Mister E]

And yet she slept with Dominic Greene. If she could do that with someone she had no feelings for, certainly she could have slept with Bond at the end.

Her obessesion with getting revenge clearly ran deeper then her own pleasure. Sleeping with Greene only meant getting Medrano and nothing more.

Penthouse Forum letters have better setups and pickup lines than that scene. (Double-Oh Agent insert statement)

The Feilds affair was a homage to the old Bond, specfically in GOLDFINGER and Jill Masterson when Bond he really didn't even use any "pick up lines" to nail her.

[Double-Oh Agent]

And yet she slept with Dominic Greene. If she could do that with someone she had no feelings for, certainly she could have slept with Bond at the end.

Her obessesion with getting revenge clearly ran deeper then her own pleasure. Sleeping with Greene only meant getting Medrano and nothing more.

Penthouse Forum letters have better setups and pickup lines than that scene. (Double-Oh Agent insert statement)

The Feilds affair was a homage to the old Bond, specfically in GOLDFINGER and Jill Masterson when Bond he really didn't even use any "pick up lines" to nail her.

Maybe not, but at least there was sexual tension/chemistry evident between Bond and Jill in Goldfinger. There is none of that between Bond and Fields in QOS, which is why a better line and seduction scene are needed.