1228 replies to this topic

[Bonita]

It is always nice the check back on a thread after a while and see so many people who do not understand the film industry still pounding hopelessly away at long-lost theories.

Yes, let's celebrate the success of QoS. I loved the film. Enjoyed it to the full. Wish some action editing had been a lot better, but eager to see it again.

And let's talk numbers, which is what this forum is about:
QoS made lots of money. More than I ever expect to make in my life.
The fact arose some time back that the film opened big, then disappointed by failing to make more money. Many asked a question that no one in the film industry would ever ask:

Why is it disappointing to make your money up front rather than over time?

And that brings up the key point: HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Because if (as Hildy proposed oh, so many pages ago) a Bond film can only do so much box office, then it really doesn't matter. If Bond has a ceiling on its grosses, then, hey, have it make all its money on opening weekend.

But let's put that question in the way a studio looks at it: If someone told you to predict how much money a Bond movie would make based on it opening three days, how would you do it?

Studios release lots of movies. They like box office to grow from film to film in a franchise. And because lots of film franchises exist, they have expectations about films that are based on lots of number-crunching. They do market research that they use to come up with potential box office figures. And if they predict an opening over $60 million in the US, they then have a formula for what they see as the potential for the rest of the film's life. The higher the opening weekend, the higher their expectations for the entire run of the film. I think we can all agree that is reasonable to expect.

When a film is part of a franchise, they also have the ability to look at the other films in the series to see how well they played out over their run. If, two years previous, the last Bond played strong through January, you might think there is a good chance QoS will have strong legs and continue to play strong into January. It didn't.

By all those standards, Quantum of Solace was a disappointment to Sony.

This does not mean the film did not make money. This does not mean that the film was a failure. It means that the expectations in the studio were high. QoS failed to meet those expectations.

In colder terms, QoS did not have as many repeat viewers as Sony hoped. QoS did not have as good a word-of-mouth as Sony hoped.

Since Sony only has a peripheral piece of the DVD release (which will come through 20th Century Fox), the studio sees this film as somewhat of a lost opportunity.

So, let's all celebrate the over-all success. Let's enjoy the film. And those who wish to deny that QoS under-performed based on its potential, hey, you have a right to believe what you wish. 8-Tracks may make a comeback. Your RCA Videodisc collection may still go up in value. You can believe that smoking isn't linked to lung cancer, too.

keep dancing...

[Loomis]

If, two years previous, the last Bond played strong through January, you might think there is a good chance QoS will have strong legs and continue to play strong into January. It didn't.

By all those standards, Quantum of Solace was a disappointment to Sony.

You mean a disappointment worldwide or a disappointment only in the States? If the latter, well, c'mon, we all know that Americans (by and large) have only a mild, passing interest in Bond. Even the almighty DIE ANOTHER DAY failed to make its year's U.S. top ten grosses list. Americans and Bond are like Brits and baseball.

If the former, though, this news is.... troubling. Especially as the following source cites QUANTUM OF SOLACE as the tenth most expensive film of all time (!), although it does point out that "it's a good job that Bond sold out to product placement a long time ago – the innumerable big brands attached to the film will have helped foot the massive marketing bill": http://blog.knowyour...es-of-all-time/

[Qwerty]

UPDATED...

'Quantum of Solace' - Box Office Details

CommanderBond.net rounds up all the latest details (Updated Weekly)

Final US gross (12 weeks total): $168,368,427

[blueman]

It is always nice the check back on a thread after a while and see so many people who do not understand the film industry still pounding hopelessly away at long-lost theories.

Yes, let's celebrate the success of QoS. I loved the film. Enjoyed it to the full. Wish some action editing had been a lot better, but eager to see it again.

And let's talk numbers, which is what this forum is about:
QoS made lots of money. More than I ever expect to make in my life.
The fact arose some time back that the film opened big, then disappointed by failing to make more money. Many asked a question that no one in the film industry would ever ask:

Why is it disappointing to make your money up front rather than over time?

And that brings up the key point: HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Because if (as Hildy proposed oh, so many pages ago) a Bond film can only do so much box office, then it really doesn't matter. If Bond has a ceiling on its grosses, then, hey, have it make all its money on opening weekend.

But let's put that question in the way a studio looks at it: If someone told you to predict how much money a Bond movie would make based on it opening three days, how would you do it?

Studios release lots of movies. They like box office to grow from film to film in a franchise. And because lots of film franchises exist, they have expectations about films that are based on lots of number-crunching. They do market research that they use to come up with potential box office figures. And if they predict an opening over $60 million in the US, they then have a formula for what they see as the potential for the rest of the film's life. The higher the opening weekend, the higher their expectations for the entire run of the film. I think we can all agree that is reasonable to expect.

When a film is part of a franchise, they also have the ability to look at the other films in the series to see how well they played out over their run. If, two years previous, the last Bond played strong through January, you might think there is a good chance QoS will have strong legs and continue to play strong into January. It didn't.

By all those standards, Quantum of Solace was a disappointment to Sony.

This does not mean the film did not make money. This does not mean that the film was a failure. It means that the expectations in the studio were high. QoS failed to meet those expectations.

In colder terms, QoS did not have as many repeat viewers as Sony hoped. QoS did not have as good a word-of-mouth as Sony hoped.

Since Sony only has a peripheral piece of the DVD release (which will come through 20th Century Fox), the studio sees this film as somewhat of a lost opportunity.

So, let's all celebrate the over-all success. Let's enjoy the film. And those who wish to deny that QoS under-performed based on its potential, hey, you have a right to believe what you wish. 8-Tracks may make a comeback. Your RCA Videodisc collection may still go up in value. You can believe that smoking isn't linked to lung cancer, too.

keep dancing...

Sony's hopes notwithstanding, QOS performed as Bond films have performed, more or less, since GE. Perhaps a better, more unbiased barometer would be the yearly rankings stateside: 9th for QOS (same ranking for CR in '06; and for further comparison GE ranked 6th, TND 10th, TWINE 14th, and DAD 12th for their respective years).

Sony might be disappointed, but QOS met reasonable expectations. Factor in the worldwide recession and it did even better IMO (kinda like how TND more than held its own against "Titanic", lol).

There's all kinds of spin to put on it, sure, but QOS performing as Bonds perform just can't be a mark against it... just step away from the Sony water cooler and eveything's fine.

[HildebrandRarity]

EDITED

(waste of time)

[Qwerty]

UPDATED...

'Quantum of Solace' - Box Office Details

CommanderBond.net rounds up all the latest details (Updated Weekly)

[HildebrandRarity]

I was at an economics presentation late in the week and came across some interesting graphs courtesy of Bank Of America/Merrill Lynch. I post the info becasue of a stat on consumer spending on things like 'movies'.


[Source: Bureau Of Economic Analysis...]

Consumer Discretionary Spending (Jun 08 - Dec 08, % change at annual rate)


+ 08 %....Cable TV
+ 06 %....Telecom
+ 05 %....Medical Care
+ 04 %....Drug Preparations

- 07 %....Toys
- 07 %....Books & Maps
- 08 %....Food
- 09 %....Computers
- 09 %....Sporting Equipment
- 12 %....Hotels & Motels
- 13 %....Clothing & Shoes
- 14 %....Household Appliances
- 15 %....Casino Gambling
- 15 %....Furniture
- 19 %....Jewelry
- 21 %....Airlines
- 32 %....Movies
- 34 %....Motor Vehicles


Note that the above is the change on spending over the same period of 2007.

Spending on movies got crushed. Similarly, note how one of the few areas of increased spending was Cable TV!

Interesting, isn't it?

THESE ARE FACTS, not projections or estimates.

Many pages ago I said it would be months before a true picture emerged of the time period during which Q0S was in theatres.

Now we are getting the picture about not just a recession, but a "depression"...for it is now becoming a depression unlike any post WWII slump our generation and our parents generation has seen. It is the one reason why QOS didnt go significantly above CR in US Domestic Box Office.

Also note that these numbers are over the second half of the year. Remember, however, the slump and job losses ACCELERATED during late September, October, November and December, months in which the bulk of 2008's job losses occured and the time frame during which Q0S was released.

The theory that recessions and depressions, like that of the 1930s, somehow help spending on movies is, therefore, an antiquated notion...as the above numbers prove.

In the 1930s, there was no cable tv, no dvd and blue-ray players, no tv programs and less forms of entertainment, so the ONLY way to see a movie was to buy a theatre ticket. Not so in 2008, 2009, etc.

Lastly, if you know what Sony Corp stock has done (it's TANKED, in case you didn't know), then you'll know that they made some bad calls.

When one of our forum members suggests that Sony expectations got elevated after opening weekend, then the suggestion means that those people failed to understand history (indeed they discarded history) and decided to make extrapolations based on a singular data point. Those people have shown their true intelligence levels...which doesn't seem 'high'.

Hope those stats from the Bureau Of Economic Analysis and Bank Of America Corp offer interesting "tid bits" (like drug spending/medical care going up during this economic dump.)

- Hildebrand

[Jim]

Hope those stats from the Bureau Of Economic Analysis and Bank Of America Corp offer interesting "tid bits"

Don't live in hope.

It's becoming almost as depressingly weird as the watch fetishists.

[HildebrandRarity]

Well, we can't only get our kinky kicks discussing the gay subtext in Fleming's TMWTGG. You know...things like big fat cigars, touch holes, golden cannon balls, attacks on the rear perimeter of forts and python-munching...

...we need other types of intellectual masturbation as well.

Now, where's Dell Deaton? I need my Rolex Submariner 14060M fix. Or is the 10460M fix?

[Qwerty]

UPDATED...

'Quantum of Solace' - Box Office Details

CommanderBond.net rounds up all the latest details (Updated Weekly)

[HildebrandRarity]

Adjusted for Pound Sterling's major dump of Autumn, which cost the film ~ $25 Million from James Bond 2nd largest market, QOS has become the most successful OO7 film in recent memory.

It's an outstanding achievement given the MASSIVE DECLINE which took place in U.S. CONSUMER SPENDING on MOVIES during the time Q0S was in release, as hard data illustrates in post # 1239 above.

Even unadjusted, it becomes one of the most profitable Bond films as a result of the $100 Million* in revenue the production received from Corporations having product in the movie. This revenue was a new high breaking the record held by Die Another Day*.



*50 Million Pounds in Autumn 2007 when the currency was at $2.00 . Previous record Die Another Day was 44 Million Pounds.

[HildebrandRarity]

Yes, let's celebrate the success of QoS. I loved the film. Enjoyed it to the full.

QoS made lots of money.

...if (as Hildy proposed oh, so many pages ago) a Bond film can only do so much box office, then it really doesn't matter. If Bond has a ceiling on its grosses, then, hey, have it make all its money on opening weekend.

Quantum of Solace was a disappointment to Sony.

...the expectations in the studio were high. QoS failed to meet those expectations.

In colder terms, QoS did not have as many repeat viewers as Sony hoped.

Sony this, Sony that. Give it up!

SONY CORP stock:

Jan 2008.......$55 per share.

This morning...$16 per share.

Percentage change?

Down 71 Percent!

What does that say about Sony and some of their 'execs'?

As per non-repeat viewers?

HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE DEPRESSION of Q4 '08 and the effectit had on Consumer Spending on Movies during the latter part of last year? I don't know about you, but if people lose their jobs, most of them don't go see the same movie more than once (or, max, twice) in the aggregate...they stay home and fire up their cable tv channels...as THE DATA INDICATES!!!

Look at the numbers in post #1239...

PS

I suggested a ceiling for Bond movies on US attendance, not grosses.

[Qwerty]

UPDATED...

'Quantum of Solace' - Box Office Details

CommanderBond.net rounds up all the latest details (Updated Weekly)

[HildebrandRarity]

It looks like just you and I in here, Qwerty!

All those who thought that Q0S was going to do less business than CR and that the depression didn't have an impact on box office seem to have vanished into oblivion.

[MrKidd]

I think its because there's only so much you can bang on about the same old thing without getting bored - make your point and move on. Most of us have. You've made the same point over and over and over and over and over again - you protesteth too much (or words to that effect!)! FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance. I'm now looking forward to your self-justifying outrage of a response, quoting meaningless statistics that actually don't reflect the real world. Give it up..please - WHATEVER!

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

I think its because there's only so much you can bang on about the same old thing without getting bored - make your point and move on. Most of us have. You've made the same point over and over and over and over and over again - you protesteth too much (or words to that effect!)! FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance. I'm now looking forward to your self-justifying outrage of a response, quoting meaningless statistics that actually don't reflect the real world. Give it up..please - WHATEVER!

Yes, totally agree. It's exhausting and pointless to discuss with someone like HildebrandRarity, who isn't capable to admit anything not so positive about his favourite movie- QOS-, like for instance BO. He will always be in denial, looking for meaningless statics to cover up the fact that QOS made less money (not much less, but less however) than its immediate predeccessor in the series, CR, which doesn't do other that confirm that CR is more successful than QOS, but that tiny little thing against the supposed 'perfection' of QOS, it seems to be just too hard to accept for the already mentioned poster.

[blueman]

Look who's bored today.

[HildebrandRarity]

[HildebrandRarity]

FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance.

LOL. Quantum was released in the 4th Quarter, which history will show was the worst quarter since the early 1930s. The stats are real. I didn't make them up.

My friend, you're deluded if you think multiple repeat viewings of QOS weren't impacted by the depresssion.

Let me suggest that real estate values in your area (New York) are going to keep tumbling as those who lost their jobs in Wall Street make their way down to Washington and get employed in the ever-expanding Big Government sector currently being developed to counter the depression.

Good Luck.

[HildebrandRarity]

He will always be in denial, looking for meaningless statics to cover up the fact that QOS made less money (not much less, but less however) than its immediate predeccessor in the series, CR, which doesn't do other that confirm that CR is more successful than QOS...

So, the currency of the second larget market for James Bond movies (the UK) declining by 25 percent is meaningless?

The US consumer having it's confidence shaken and spending over 30 Percent less on movie outings from the previous year is meaningless?

It's tough out there, my dear fellow. The US, UK, Euroland and Eastern Europe are in a mess. I suggest you take your head out of the sand.

[MrKidd]

FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance.

LOL. Quantum was released in the 4th Quarter, which history will show was the worst quarter since the early 1930s. The stats are real. I didn't make them up.

My friend, you're deluded if you think multiple repeat viewings of QOS weren't impacted by the depresssion.

Let me suggest that real estate values in your area (New York) are going to keep tumbling as those who lost their jobs in Wall Street make their way down to Washington and get employed in the ever-expanding Big Government sector currently being developed to counter the depression.

Good Luck.

2009 is getting worse 'my friend' not better! Really I'm not deluded. Not at all. But then Taken and Mall Cop have taken over $100m so doesn't seem to have effected their BO does it? Now, get back to your day job and stop huffing and puffing!

[blueman]

Yeah, no matter how you slice it, just plain sucks QOS made $574m. For a blockbuster, them's mighty poor numbers.

[MrKidd]

Yeah, no matter how you slice it, just plain sucks QOS made $574m. For a blockbuster, them's mighty poor numbers.

who said that? I didn't. This is not a potlitical debate where you need to be so partisan..sheesh.

[jaguar007]

Yeah, no matter how you slice it, just plain sucks QOS made $574m. For a blockbuster, them's mighty poor numbers.

Yep, a whole $8 million less than that box office flop known as Iron Man ($582million)

[HildebrandRarity]

Yeah, no matter how you slice it, just plain sucks QOS made $574m. For a blockbuster, them's mighty poor numbers.

Yep, a whole $8 million less than that box office flop known as Iron Man ($582million)

...and Iron Man was released when the Pound was at $2.00 US.

If Q0S was released around the months Iron Man was in release, it (Quantum) would have generated another $25 Million from the UK (Bond's second largest movie market), thus pushing it above that box office 'flop'.

[HildebrandRarity]

FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance.

LOL. Quantum was released in the 4th Quarter, which history will show was the worst quarter since the early 1930s. The stats are real. I didn't make them up.

My friend, you're deluded if you think multiple repeat viewings of QOS weren't impacted by the depresssion.

Let me suggest that real estate values in your area (New York) are going to keep tumbling as those who lost their jobs in Wall Street make their way down to Washington and get employed in the ever-expanding Big Government sector currently being developed to counter the depression.

Good Luck.

2009 is getting worse 'my friend' not better! Really I'm not deluded. Not at all. But then Taken and Mall Cop have taken over $100m so doesn't seem to have effected their BO does it? Now, get back to your day job and stop huffing and puffing!

New info is coming out about the recent past all the time.

The fact is that Consumer Discretionary Income has gone UP in the 1st Quarter for three reasons:

1) Lower gasoline prices since October has increased discretionary income
2) Lower taxes.
3) Parts of the 'Stimulus Package' is helping to boost income slightly.

Q4 of 2008 was a lot worse for the consumer in the aggregate.

In addition, it's true that Taken and Mall Cop did $100 million in Q1 but where did I say movies were not going to do $100+ business anymore. Plus 'event' pics or critically acclaimed films that strike a chord will always do well. Also, Taken and Mall Cop didn't/won't do nearly $170 million like Q0S did.

Once again, I have stats and charts suggesting that Q4 '08 was the worst for Consumer Spending...worse than what Q1 '09 is turning out to be.

[MrKidd]

FYI - Jan 2009 was the biggest BO on record, Feb 2009 is also near the top. You seem to want to justify to yourself rather than anyone else about QOS BO performance.

LOL. Quantum was released in the 4th Quarter, which history will show was the worst quarter since the early 1930s. The stats are real. I didn't make them up.

My friend, you're deluded if you think multiple repeat viewings of QOS weren't impacted by the depresssion.

Let me suggest that real estate values in your area (New York) are going to keep tumbling as those who lost their jobs in Wall Street make their way down to Washington and get employed in the ever-expanding Big Government sector currently being developed to counter the depression.

Good Luck.

2009 is getting worse 'my friend' not better! Really I'm not deluded. Not at all. But then Taken and Mall Cop have taken over $100m so doesn't seem to have effected their BO does it? Now, get back to your day job and stop huffing and puffing!

New info is coming out about the recent past all the time.

The fact is that Consumer Discretionary Income has gone UP in the 1st Quarter for three reasons:

1) Lower gasoline prices since October has increased discretionary income
2) Lower taxes.
3) Parts of the 'Stimulus Package' is helping to boost income slightly.

Q4 of 2008 was a lot worse for the consumer in the aggregate.

In addition, it's true that Taken and Mall Cop did $100 million in Q1 but where did I say movies were not going to do $100+ business anymore. Plus 'event' pics or critically acclaimed films that strike a chord will always do well. Also, Taken and Mall Cop didn't/won't do nearly $170 million like Q0S did.

Once again, I have stats and charts suggesting that Q4 '08 was the worst for Consumer Spending...worse than what Q1 '09 is turning out to be.

Are you serious - are you really serious?? Errr, you are wrong in so many languages! GDP is predicted to be negative for Q1. Just one example.. http://www.reuters.c...440189320090304

Also, what part of the stimulus package - the one which has only just been passed, do you think has fed through yet???? You're so out of touch with reality that I'm going to stop playing with you now. Obviously rabid little fan boys can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever,.. I'm bored of you, so I'm off to go to the movies with all those tax cuts that haven't come through yet.. Cheerio - enjoy crayoning your charts and stuff.

[dee-bee-five]

Curious to see some posters accusing others of being childish. It seems to me that the only ones throwing their toys out of the pram are those who persist in claiming that QoS was a box office disappointment when all the evidence tells us otherwise. Oh well, if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that some fan boys like to live in their own little worlds, untroubled by facts...

[blueman]

I didn't like QOS; no one should like QOS; no one liked QOS; BO was poor. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[MrKidd]

Curious to see some posters accusing others of being childish. It seems to me that the only ones throwing their toys out of the pram are those who persist in claiming that QoS was a box office disappointment when all the evidence tells us otherwise. Oh well, if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that some fan boys like to live in their own little worlds, untroubled by facts...

Mmmmm -read the thread - you'll see that's not what I've been advocating at all. You try to do people a favor and educate them, but what's it all worth, eh?!

Edited by MrKidd, 10 March 2009 - 01:50 AM.