74 replies to this topic

[Craig is 007]

The one thing that really pisses me of, is people who say that James Bond is copying Jason Bourne... Hmm? No. It's actually quite the opposite.

The first official James Bond film came out in 1962, it was Dr. No, starring Sean Connery as 007. 40 years later a rather dull action flick hit the screens, it was called The Bourne Identity. The director of the film, Doug Liman, wanted to create something similar to Bond, sort of a new generation of spy thrillers. The Bourne Identity took many ideas from previous James Bond films.

A year later, in 2002, the 20th James Bond film, Die Another Day, came out. This film was a catastrofe, with bad CGI, lots of silly gadgets, a bad story etc. The opposite of what Ian Fleming, the creator of James Bond, wrote about in his books (from 1953 - 1966). The Bond producers had to do something about this. They desided that they wanted to go back to what they had started with, and make a Bond film as Ian Fleming would have done. They hired the British actor, Daniel Craig, to play the role of James Bond in the 21st Bond adventure, Casino Royale. In Casino Royale, we see Bond as a cold and rough-edged man, just as Ian Fleming had described in his books, instead of a sleek person that doesn't seem to bleed(refering to Pierce Brosnan, and some of the Roger Moore films). Casino Royale became the most successful Bond film ever.

But then, some people (including the Jason Bourne actor Matt Damon), comes of saying that Casino Royale is a copy of the Jason Bourne films. The reason: Because the movie was realistic... That's excactly my point, Ian Fleming's James Bond is realistic!

The 3rd Jason Bourne film, The Bourne Ultimatum, came out in 2007. Parts of this film was stolen from the 007 film, The Living Daylights (1987). In The Living Daylights we see Bond escaping from the egyptian police through the narrow streets of Tangier, and later running across the rooftops. In The Bourne Ultimatum, the excact same thing happens, in the excact same city; Jason Bourne escaping from the egyptian police through the streets and rooftops of Tangier. Hmm... Is James Bond a copy of Jason Bourne, or is it the other way?

Now, just days before the premiere of Quantum Of Solace, some people are still comparing Bond with Bourne. They say the editing is a bit similar. Did they sleep through the movie? I saw the 20 minutes-screening, and it is edited in the same way as Casino Royale. Quantum Of Solace used the same stunt coordinator as The Bourne Supremacy and The Bourne Ultimatum, but what the hell, Marc Forster directed Finding Neverland. Some people also say that the QoS-car chase is inspired by the Bourne car chases. No, a car chase is a car chase.

Now, all of you Bourne-is-better-than-Bond'ers etc. it's the opposite: BOND IS BETTER THAN BOURNE!

Edited by Craig is 007, 27 October 2008 - 05:44 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

Thank you! Brilliant post. I agree with most of what you've written.

I can understand where this rant is coming from, It's really annoying when all we hear is the Bond is copying Bourne crap.

I mean, nearly every single review we have read, somewhere there is a Bourne reference. Great to see that you're behind Bond all of the way aswell.

[Ellis Quarterman]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

[DLibrasnow]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

My favorite adaptation of the 1980 Robert Ludlum novel "The Bourne Identity" is the 1988 television movie starring Richard Chamberlain and Jaclyn Smith which was very different to the 007 of the time.

I think that it is therefore a little unfair to accuse Ludlum of being unoriginal when he wrote the novel.

[DamnCoffee]

I think that it is therefore a little unfair to accuse Ludloum of being unoriginal when he wrote the novel.

I agree.

How much of the Bourne film series was influenced by Greengrass? I'm not that clued up on them enough to care.

[Craig is 007]

Did I accuse Robert Ludlum?
Ludlum's The Bourne Identity is a bit different than the 2001 film. But some elements in the books are taken from Bond, such as his name.

[doubler83]

But some elements in the books are taken from Bond, such as his name.

Uh oh, better tear a strip off the producers of 24 while you're at it. I mean, Jack Bauer, he's got the same intials as James Bond too. His name? Come on.

Anybody who believes that the Bourne movies didn't influence EON to go back to basics with Bond in any way are delusional. There, I said it.

Edited by doubler83, 27 October 2008 - 03:12 PM.

[ChrissBond007]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

I seconded that!

Edited by ChrissBond007, 27 October 2008 - 03:50 PM.

[double o ego]

But some elements in the books are taken from Bond, such as his name.

Uh oh, better tear a strip off the producers of 24 while you're at it. I mean, Jack Bauer, he's got the same intials as James Bond too. His name? Come on.

Anybody who believes that the Bourne movies didn't influence EON to go back to basics with Bond in any way are delusional. There, I said it.

And anybody who doesn't think that Bond fundamentally inspired the likes of Bourne and Bauer need to be drugged and dragged to the closest asylum.

[Leon]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

I seconded that!

Thirded, and you can add Jack Bauer to the whole JB innitialed action/spy protagonlist.

The whole thing is absurd in my eyes. The main idea behind the plot to the Bourne Identity is ripped straight from the end of the novel You Only Live Twice too.

Sure, the fact that the Bourne films grittier style became very popular was one of the main influences for EON to take Bond back in that direction but it's not as if Bond hadn't ever done that before anyway.

James Bond is the original and these films have been going for 46 years and are still going strong (very strong in fact), with a solid history of the character and his roots dating back 55 years.

Bourne films have been going for 6 years, and the books 28 years - in all reality little more than a re-interpretation of what Fleming already gave us in terms of a character (with quite a bit of plagiarism I might add) and are already dying out, let's face it. Whereas Bond, with it's rich history is not only widely adored by many and hated by some, but is a national fictional treasure for Great Britain.

There's absolutely no question whatsoever as to who was first.

PS, I enjoy the Bourne Identity film, the other two just feel like the same old thing with less intruigue. As for the books I have had a go with ID but found the writing in it very dull, almost as much as Tom Clancy who is one of the most over-rated popular thriller authors in the world.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

I seconded that!

Thirded, and you can add Jack Bauer to the whole JB innitialed action/spy protagonlist.

Bourne films have been going for 6 years, and the books 28 years - in all reality little more than a re-interpretation of what Fleming already gave us in terms of a character (with quite a bit of plagiarism I might add) and are already dying out, let's face it. Whereas Bond, with it's rich history is not only widely adored by many and hated by some, but is a national fictional treasure for Great Britain.

I would say that this stupid accusation of Bond is a copy of Bourne, started also as a matter of some kind of national pride. As some (not all) americans can't accept the fact that the cultural hegemony was in England in the sixties, hence they're always comparing americans artist (even fictionals like the movie "That Thing You Do") declaring that they were as great or even better than The Beatles, well the same thing happens with the enviable success of Bond through the decades.

These chauvinistics Bourne fans (again, I don't think that all americans are like that), have always wanted an american James Bond, and when they think they finally get it with Jason Bourne, they have to make it seem superior than the original british model.

By the way, I'm not british.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 27 October 2008 - 06:15 PM.

[double o ego]

hahaha, Clancy imo is a hack. He hasn't written anything of interest in years and doesn't even bother writing stuff anymore, he just has a bunch of ghost writers and slaps his name on it.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

And talking about comparisons... may be this is foolish too, but I noticed a peculiar similarity between the theatrical posters of Casino Royale (2006) and The Bourne Ultimatum (2007). Almost the same pose (with the gun on the run) and composition for the main character, and I would add to that the blue tone of the photography.

[SecretAgentFan]

I think that it is therefore a little unfair to accuse Ludloum of being unoriginal when he wrote the novel.

I agree.

How much of the Bourne film series was influenced by Greengrass? I'm not that clued up on them enough to care.

Even more unfair is the fact that Greengrass gets all the credit for Bourne when it was Doug Liman who directed the first one and brought this character with flair to the big screen. Greengrass took over and employed his quick-cutting-documentary-style which worked very well in the second film with an amazing car chase.

So, I can see where the comparisons stem from. But actually, quick-cutting-action was already done by other directors before Greengrass, especially Michael Bay.

In the end, Greengrass is way overhyped. As is Bourne. Which I still do like. But the character lacks the elegance and depth of Bond.

[DLibrasnow]

The first official James Bond film came out in 1962, it was Dr. No, starring Sean Connery as 007. 40 years later a rather dull action flick hit the screens, it was called The Bourne Identity. The director of the film, Doug Liman, wanted to create something similar to Bond, sort of a new generation of spy thrillers. The Bourne Identity took many ideas from previous James Bond films.

But you are implying that the character of Jason Bourne was created for the movie with Matt Damon when in fact that character first appeared in 1980 and Ludlum took a more realistic approach to his spy world than the space shuttle-hopping 007 at the time.

If you accuse Ludlum of ripping of Bond you must also accuse Fleming of ripping of Buchan.

And the Bond producers EON from ripping off the Hitchcock movie "North By Northwest" (indeed EON admitted that the helicopter scene in From Russia With Love was lifted from the crop duster scene on "North By Northwest.".

[Safari Suit]

Bond films do not exist in a pop cultural vacuum, and nor should they. They will influence and, yes, be influenced.

[Daddy Bond]

I for one do not really care who borrowed from who or which came first. I like both Bond and Bourne and I don't fret myself with comparison's when I am watching either.

Bourne would likely not even be, were it not for Bond, and it seems likely that the current direction for Bond is at least due (in part) to the Bourne movies.

[JackWade]

I would say that this stupid accusation of Bond is a copy of Bourne, started also as a matter of some kind of national pride. As some (not all) americans can't accept the fact that the cultural hegemony was in England in the sixties, hence they're always comparing americans artist (even fictionals like the movie "That Thing You Do") declaring that they were as great or even better than The Beatles, well the same thing happens with the enviable success of Bond through the decades.

These chauvinistics Bourne fans (again, I don't think that all americans are like that), have always wanted an american James Bond, and when they think they finally get it with Jason Bourne, they have to make it seem superior than the original british model.

By the way, I'm not british.

As an American I'm afraid to say that this isn't the case. I think the whole Bond/Bourne thing is mostly a product of the anti-Craig crowd, not necessarily the flag-waving American patriots.

[Daddy Bond]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

I seconded that!

Thirded, and you can add Jack Bauer to the whole JB innitialed action/spy protagonlist.

Bourne films have been going for 6 years, and the books 28 years - in all reality little more than a re-interpretation of what Fleming already gave us in terms of a character (with quite a bit of plagiarism I might add) and are already dying out, let's face it. Whereas Bond, with it's rich history is not only widely adored by many and hated by some, but is a national fictional treasure for Great Britain.

I would say that this stupid accusation of Bond is a copy of Bourne, started also as a matter of some kind of national pride. As some (not all) americans can't accept the fact that the cultural hegemony was in England in the sixties, hence they're always comparing americans artist (even fictionals like the movie "That Thing You Do") declaring that they were as great or even better than The Beatles, well the same thing happens with the enviable success of Bond through the decades.

These chauvinistics Bourne fans (again, I don't think that all americans are like that), have always wanted an american James Bond, and when they think they finally get it with Jason Bourne, they have to make it seem superior than the original british model.

By the way, I'm not british.

Um, yeah, whatever.

[Blonde Bond]

Why can't we learn to live in peace and harmony? Why can't two movie series, both with a hero whose initials are J.B, coexist?

In my humble opinion, the best spy movies of the 21st century are ; The Bourne Identity, The Bourne Supremacy, The Bourne Ultimatum Confessions of a Dangerous Mind and Casino Royale. Heck! I'll even throw MI3 there... and I hope Quantum of Solace will hold it's own against these movies.

[Daddy Bond]

Why can't we learn to live in peace and harmony? Why can't two movie series, both with a hero whose initials are J.B, coexist?

In my humble opinion, the best spy movies of the 21st century are ; The Bourne Identity, The Bourne Supremacy, The Bourne Ultimatum Confessions of a Dangerous Mind and Casino Royale. Heck! I'll even throw MI3 there... and I hope Quantum of Solace will hold it's own against these movies.

Well enough said!

[doublenoughtspy]

I'm not sure why people seem to be so upset over the comparison.

It's ridiculous to deny the influence - like trying to say L&LD wasn't influenced by blaxplotation, or TMWGG the Kung Fu craze, or MR influenced by Star Wars.

In a recent interview with Der Speigel, Broccoli admitted that she loved the Bourne series.

Some of the same 2nd unit & stunt people worked on Bourne series before coming to work on Bond.

Are the two Craig Bond films complete rip offs of the Bourne series? No.

Have the two Craig Bond films been influenced by the Bourne series? Yes.

[Craig is 007]

The first official James Bond film came out in 1962, it was Dr. No, starring Sean Connery as 007. 40 years later a rather dull action flick hit the screens, it was called The Bourne Identity. The director of the film, Doug Liman, wanted to create something similar to Bond, sort of a new generation of spy thrillers. The Bourne Identity took many ideas from previous James Bond films.

But you are implying that the character of Jason Bourne was created for the movie with Matt Damon when in fact that character first appeared in 1980 and Ludlum took a more realistic approach to his spy world than the space shuttle-hopping 007 at the time.

If you accuse Ludlum of ripping of Bond you must also accuse Fleming of ripping of Buchan.

And the Bond producers EON from ripping off the Hitchcock movie "North By Northwest" (indeed EON admitted that the helicopter scene in From Russia With Love was lifted from the crop duster scene on "North By Northwest.".

And that's excactly what I am saying, the Bourne films with Matt Damon are ripping off James Bond. I haven't seen the 1988's Bourne Identity, but I have read the first Bourne novel (and all the Bond novels) and it's very clear that Ludlum was inspired by Ian Fleming.

[Daddy Bond]

What is BlaxPLOtation?

[dinovelvet]

BRAVO! Verry True Indeed! I hate The Bourne Films, He even has the same intials as bond ; JB! - Get Some Ideas of your own Bourne

I seconded that!

Thirded, and you can add Jack Bauer to the whole JB innitialed action/spy protagonlist.

The whole thing is absurd in my eyes. The main idea behind the plot to the Bourne Identity is ripped straight from the end of the novel You Only Live Twice too.

Indeed, and it means that if they finally do decide to adapt YOLT as Craig's fourth/last film complete with Fleming's ending, you'll get idiots screaming "OMG tey ripoffed teh buornez filmz!".

The main thing that irks me about the Bourne comparisons is that I just don't think the Bourne films are very good. The first one came out when Bond was in the doldrums with TWINE being the most recent effort, and I found the first Bourne to be every bit as dull as TWINE.

I'd also like to throw in that I think the Joan Allen character is a um, "homage", shall we say, to Judi Dench's M and her alternating antagonistic/friendly relationship with Bond.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Now, all of you Bourne-is-better-than-Bond'ers etc. it's the opposite: BOND IS BETTER THAN BOURNE!

I think this discussion began in 2002 when Bourne and Bond had a film out the same year and The Bourne film was vastly superior,imo. The second Bourne was also vastly superior than any recent Bond film. Casino Royale brought Bond back.I think the Brosnan films were absolutely pathetic compared to the Bourne series but I'd say Bond and Bourne are now 'splitting the pot'.

[Judo chop]

When some disheveled drunk in the barstool next to you starts arguing with you that 2 + 2 actually might equal 5, do you stop what you’re doing and immerse yourself in a heated debate with the loony’s tune?

No. When you know you’re right you know you’re right. You give the guy a patronizing nod and continue watching the game.

When people say that Bond is ‘ripping off’ Bourne as if that’s the whole story… as if Bond wasn’t already witnessing his 5th decade in cinematic history… as if Bourne just popped out of nowhere a completely unique entity of his own… I respond “I see. Next topic.”

(Unless, of course, they are unaware of the Bond Legacy, in which case I politely educate them.)

As time has gone on, Bond has become a bit of an importer/exporter, taking cues as often as giving them. But in terms of history – in terms of ‘who owes whom’ – there’s no reason to argue, because there is no debate. We have all the evidence in the world that Bourne was born of Bond. There’s no reason to get defensive, because the attack is impotent.

Simply, there are those who realize that Bond allows Bourne to exist, and there are those who don’t realize it. Help them understand if you must, but for heaven’s sake don’t bother getting yourself upset by their peasant rants.

[SolidWaffle]

Agreed, Bourne is derived from Bond. They even have the same initals. (Coincidence, or the work of Robert Ludlum) But i did like the Bourne movies.

[Judo chop]

I like the Bourne movies too. But I think they're pretty much done with what they're going to do.

In the end, only one series is going to have itself a Legacy.

Guess which one?

[stamper]

Bourne ? Because the next one is called THE BOURNE LEGACY.