Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

Commercial involvement of Bond franchise out of control?


73 replies to this topic

#61 jaguar007

jaguar007

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5608 posts
  • Location:Portland OR

Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:22 PM

Bond would rather wear Omega than Rolex. I don't see anything unFleming-like about that exchange. And that's exactly what I mean about the argument: If it had been a brand that was specifically endorsed in the novels (as if that made a real difference), everybody would be lauding the moment as a triumphant tribute to Fleming. However, because it's a brand that didn't exist then (and, fortunately, isn't so commonly viewed as a symbol of wealth), it's a "shameless" advertisement for some "other" brand (and, in this case, one that happens to be far, FAR out of my price range).


Actually Omega was around then and was prestegious brand, although certainly not as well known as Rolex

#62 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:30 PM

Bond would rather wear Omega than Rolex. I don't see anything unFleming-like about that exchange. And that's exactly what I mean about the argument: If it had been a brand that was specifically endorsed in the novels (as if that made a real difference), everybody would be lauding the moment as a triumphant tribute to Fleming. However, because it's a brand that didn't exist then (and, fortunately, isn't so commonly viewed as a symbol of wealth), it's a "shameless" advertisement for some "other" brand (and, in this case, one that happens to be far, FAR out of my price range).


Actually Omega was around then and was prestegious brand, although certainly not as well known as Rolex


Ah! Well, thank you, jaguar. Good to know, I had no idea. :) Still not some "off" brand. :(

#63 Safari Suit

Safari Suit

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5099 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:36 PM

Lets be honest here, product placement is these days a fact of modern big budget movie making and the Omega line is, in the scheme of things, no big deal, but it was also risibly blatant product placement, and that's not just fanboy spiel; critics and the public mocked the scene too. Mark Kermode took about two minutes out of his (largely positive) review to mock it as I recall.

#64 Harmsway

Harmsway

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13293 posts

Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:38 PM

I have to say, regardless of the "Omega scene" debate, I'm glad Bond's not wearing a Rolex anymore. Rolex has almost become a sort of tacky status symbol these days.

#65 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 16 September 2008 - 04:26 PM

My goodness. This anti-Omega talk I think is actually causing me to LIKE the product placement in Bond. Like an old friend hanging around the house for the summer mooching my beer and running up my water bill, I think I’d be sad to eventually see him leave.

#66 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 16 September 2008 - 04:30 PM

:( Thank you, Safari. At about the 15 minute mark here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...archive_c.shtml

I'm not mad, you see.

#67 QuantumOO7FSolace

QuantumOO7FSolace

    Midshipman

  • Crew
  • 88 posts

Posted 16 September 2008 - 04:36 PM

Bond is a man of taste and pattern! Brioni suit, Omega Watch, Sony Erriccsson phone, Aston Martin Drive, Alfa Romeros, Ford and what else? im ok with marketing if it is done subtlely and not gratuitly! Like In Brosnan era! Bond itself is a brand and an icon so why not capitalize on that? Its a quality trademark, even having its gun logo!

#68 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 17 September 2008 - 02:46 PM

I have to say, regardless of the "Omega scene" debate, I'm glad Bond's not wearing a Rolex anymore. Rolex has almost become a sort of tacky status symbol these days.

My thoughts exactly.

#69 DR76

DR76

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1673 posts

Posted 18 September 2008 - 01:41 AM

Didn't Ian Fleming engaged in product placement in his novels?

Frankly, it doesn't bother me. I tend to ignore it anyway.

#70 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:54 AM

Didn't Ian Fleming engaged in product placement in his novels?


No. Product placement is when the product is placed in a story by the company that manufactured it, for money. Fleming mentioned lots of brands he liked, but that's rather different.

It also makes a difference, surely, which brands are featured. Let's leave the tedious Omega/Rolex thing for a moment. Brioni. Italian made-to-measure suits. James Bond. It's not really a match, is it? We don't know who his tailor was in Fleming's books, but surely even in the 1990s, James Bond would have a tailor. The only reason he didn't was because of the financial necessities of the film industry. That's where what Fleming did is different: he was only concerned with what was right for the character.

The title of this thread asks if commercial involvement of this nature is out of control. Most of the replies in favour have effectively reacted as though the question were 'Should there be any product placement in the films at all?' I think we can all live with some of it, and it's needed to finance the films. The question being posed, though, is: Is it out of control?

#71 Gustav Graves

Gustav Graves

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 356 posts

Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:31 AM

Can anyone remember exagerated product placement from The Dark Knight? I mean...certain commercial billboards on the background as we saw in Moonraker. Or the over-the-top use of Sony mobile phones, when Bond and Vesper are texting, texting and texting like spoiled MTV The Cribs watchers? Please tell me. DID TDK had that much irritating product placement?

#72 Odd Job

Odd Job

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia

Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:59 AM

Product placement is part and parcel of modern movie-making (for big budget films anyway). Personally I have no problem with it as long as it fits into the films narrative (eg drinking a coke with the label front and centre is ok as long as it's not followed by the comment "Wow, that was refreshing). The Omega watch scene in CR was fine as far as I'm concerned. The comment about the watch fitted perfectly into the conversation Bond and Vesper were having. The only bit in CR that jarred (slightly) to me was the navigation device Bond was using (with the very prevalent Sony label) to guide him to the Ocean Club. There was no need for the audience to see that, we can assume that Bond knows how to follow directions.

Now if you want to see some very poor (IMHO) product placement, check out "I, Robot" with Will Smith. The film is set around 30 to 40 years in the future, but our hero just happens to like 'retro' stuff, which funnily enough was state of the art in the year of the film's release (2005).

#73 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:05 PM

Didn't Ian Fleming engaged in product placement in his novels?


No. Product placement is when the product is placed in a story by the company that manufactured it, for money. Fleming mentioned lots of brands he liked, but that's rather different.

It also makes a difference, surely, which brands are featured. Let's leave the tedious Omega/Rolex thing for a moment. Brioni. Italian made-to-measure suits. James Bond. It's not really a match, is it? We don't know who his tailor was in Fleming's books, but surely even in the 1990s, James Bond would have a tailor. The only reason he didn't was because of the financial necessities of the film industry. That's where what Fleming did is different: he was only concerned with what was right for the character.

The title of this thread asks if commercial involvement of this nature is out of control. Most of the replies in favour have effectively reacted as though the question were 'Should there be any product placement in the films at all?' I think we can all live with some of it, and it's needed to finance the films. The question being posed, though, is: Is it out of control?

You're right, SNF. That, indeed, is the question. My own personal opinion is "no," not by a long shot. Honestly, I'm not sure just what would constitute "out of control", but I know that there's no product that I yet feel like I should purchase because I saw either that particular product, or the brand that owns it, in a Bond film. Furthermore, it was never until the post-viewing discussions on this board that I began to notice any of the product placement in the last Bond film.

Attempting to define "out of control" would be a very subjective thing to do. Was it out of control in DAD? Certainly the product placement was far less subtle (scenes like Bond's Hong Kong hotel room come to mind) than in the last offering, and probably more than it had been before. On the other hand, has it been out of control since, say, Moonraker's prominent ads?

Obviously, product placement is something very meticulously and deliberately planned, so it technically could not really be out of control, per say. I think the Bond franchise has done a particularly honorable job of making the products it subliminally advertises just that. Subliminal. I've rarely felt like any of the films was a running commercial. And that's quite a feat for a franchise that's been running for 46 years, with 22 films soon under its belt.

All IMO, as always. :(

#74 spynovelfan

spynovelfan

    Commander CMG

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5855 posts

Posted 19 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

Yes, it is naturally subjective. I don't think it's out of control, either, as it happens.

If we accept that product placement is necessary, I think we would agree that it is best used so that it does not seem completely extraneous to or at odds with the plot of the film or the characters within it. Philip Morris reportedly paid $200,000 for Lark cigarettes to be used in Licence to Kill: Bond's remote trigger, you may remember, is disguised as a packet of the cigarettes. I don't think it's a great piece of product placement, because those cigarettes are sold in Japan, so why would they be used as camouflage by a British agent operating in Latin America? However, it's a mere few seconds of the film and it's not really dwelt over enough to be a problem. If James Bond, however, had had a piece of dialogue in which he asked by name for some Lark cigarettes, I hope you would agree that that would be a little over the top - as well as being rather more blatantly an advert, it just doesn't seem that the character would smoke that brand of cigarettes (unless, perhaps, he was in Japan).

So I think there are grades of it, and most of the time they've come the right side of it. But I think there have been some moments in the series where product placement has needlessly impeded scenes. One is the hotel scene in Die Another Day that you mentioned, where Bond asks Mr Chang to 'send up his tailor'. I think that's a little like Bond smoking Lark cigarettes. He's in Hong Kong and he needs a suit, but he can't leave the hotel. This, I think, was a brilliantly Fleming-esque set-up. If it had been in a Fleming novel, I think the character would have done almost the same thing; Fleming might have had him buy a copy of a local newspaper in the lobby and turn to the back to find an advert for a tailor, or told us about the first time he used the man's services; no doubt we would have had a gloriously insider-ish and well-researched description on the tailoring industry of Hong Kong and how fantastic these guys are, almost on a par with Savile Row, and so on. This sort of article sometimes appears in British broadsheets and magazines. If they had done that in the film, I think it would have been great. But they couldn't, of course, because they have a deal with Brioni. The problem I have there - and I accept that I am being very fanboyish about it, and it's probably even less noticeable to most people than the Lark thing - is that it simply doesn't make any sense. Although they do sometimes make bespoke suits, Brioni is not a tailor: James Bond is a stickler for details, and would know this one. And if a tailor was indeed sent up, those shirts must be fake, surely, because they have Brioni labels on the inside collar but Brioni did not have a branch in Hong Kong and do not work in that way.

I appreciate it's a passing moment in the film, but it's a moment that I think is untrue to the character, and not really thought through properly. They just wanted to get the Brioni shirts in there. I don't think it's very good advertising either, because it actually suggests that James Bond wears Brioni knock-offs! All of which is minute detail - but that's partly what James Bond is about, surely? Getting the details right. I don't believe he'd wear Brioni at all, but if he's going to, at least try to integrate it in a way that is artful and makes sense within the story.