15 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

As much as I loved Vespers death in the movie (That sounds horrible but nevermind) there is a part of me what would have loved to see her death in the novel brought to the big screen. I know that in the first draft of the Casino Royale script this was the case but it was changed and ended up being what we saw in the finished movie.

Now, do you preffer her death in the movie as it is, or would you have liked to see her overdose like she did in the novel instead?

[onthetracksof007]

I have always found the finale of CR a little too much. It's almost like they thought 'Hmmm, maybe we SHOULD have put more action in it.. Ah well, let's put it in the end somewhere!'
The whole sinking palazzo thing is total nonsense and adds nothing to the film.

So, the original ending - like in the book - would have worked perfectly for me.

[MkB]

I guess the original ending would have worked very well, but I must admit that I find a particular nightmarish quality to this scene in the sinking lift. I wouldn't have it changed.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

As much as I loved Vespers death in the movie (That sounds horrible but nevermind) there is a part of me what would have loved to see her death in the novel brought to the big screen. I know that in the first draft of the Casino Royale script this was the case but it was changed and ended up being what we saw in the finished movie.

It would be interesting to read the original script draft to see how the writers would have worked that out.

Now, do you preffer her death in the movie as it is, or would you have liked to see her overdose like she did in the novel instead?

I think it worked just fine in the film as is. Vepser simply taking an overdose and leaving a suicide note for Bond to read reads better but doesn't play as well cinematically. The haunting visuals of Vesper drowning in the elevator with Arnold's sad rendition of the "Vesper" theme playing in the background works very effectively and memorably.

[Joey Bond]

I've always felt the biggest weakness in Casino Royale was that the whole Venice sequence felt tagged on. As someone said earlier, it was as if the writers/producers felt there was not enough action and so decided to stick the Venice stuff in at the end.

I had this alternative thing going on in my head. After the sequence where Bond resigns we could have had montages of Bond and Vesper travelling the world. Then, perhaps as a little nod to OHMSS, we see Bond buying a wedding ring. When he returns to their hotel room, though, he finds Vesper dead, along with the message in her phone (Mr White's number). Then we can have the last 2 minutes or so as in the film, with Bond on the phone with M on the yatch and the last scene at Mr White's villa.

[Mister E]

I've always felt the biggest weakness in Casino Royale was that the whole Venice sequence felt tagged on. As someone said earlier, it was as if the writers/producers felt there was not enough action and so decided to stick the Venice stuff in at the end.

I had this alternative thing going on in my head. After the sequence where Bond resigns we could have had montages of Bond and Vesper travelling the world. Then, perhaps as a little nod to OHMSS, we see Bond buying a wedding ring. When he returns to their hotel room, though, he finds Vesper dead, along with the message in her phone (Mr White's number). Then we can have the last 2 minutes or so as in the film, with Bond on the phone with M on the yatch and the last scene at Mr White's villa.

I don't want Bond buying a wedding ring, too corny. I did want Bond discovering Vesper's dead body to be in the film.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Although Casino Royale was a very good book that introduced the character of James Bond, I always found it oddly constructed. It seems like the story is essentially over, and then goes for twenty pages or so of Bond recovering, falling for Vesper, and her offing herself.

I tend to want movies more like their books, but in this case some revamping was necessary. But CR the movie was as confusing as CR the comedy at it's end. I was half-expecting Woody Allen to come wondering in. The other oddly written Fleming story was The Spy Who Loves Me, where Bond doesn't show up until the middle of the story. However, I don't think I've read all of Ian Fleming's short stories, at least not recently.

http://shatterhand00...RWoodyAllen.jpg

Edited by Stephen Spotswood, 09 September 2008 - 03:10 PM.

[Publius]

I would have loved to see a more faithful version, but I know what works for novels doesn't always work for movies and I'm happy with what we got. Bond having to watch her die, and gruesomely at that, really makes it easier for me to believe that he'd be so affected by her death.

[Mister E]

Deleted.

Edited by Mister E, 09 September 2008 - 04:35 PM.

[Mister E]

I would have loved to see a more faithful version, but I know what works for novels doesn't always work for movies and I'm happy with what we got. Bond having to watch her die, and gruesomely at that, really makes it easier for me to believe that he'd be so affected by her death.

In terms of character, the movie is superior. James is a difficult comparison but definetly Vesper and Le Chiffre who were not very interesting in the novel.

[DR76]

I would have loved to see a more faithful version, but I know what works for novels doesn't always work for movies and I'm happy with what we got. Bond having to watch her die, and gruesomely at that, really makes it easier for me to believe that he'd be so affected by her death.

I have to agree. I always found Vesper's death in the novel as somewhat anti-climatic. Granted, the house sliding into the Venice Canal almost seemed over-the-top, but I thought the Miami sequence was even more so. But I thought that Vesper's actual death in the movie was well shot. Very creepy, yet tragic. I think it had more bite than what happened in the novel.

Edited by DR76, 09 September 2008 - 04:40 PM.

[Dell Deaton]

Prefer it as Ian Fleming wrote it.

Personally, I think the entire portrayal of her in the movie has led to a very different view of the character than originally intended.

[Painted Gold]

I still don't understand Vesper's death in CR. It came as a shock to me because nothing in her character indicated she was the kind that would have killed herself in that way.

I get that she felt guilty for betraying Bond but why drown yourself in such a horrific way right in front of him when he was trying to save her? She must have known she would be hurting him more? What could have been worth dying for? If it was guilt then there were no signs leading up to that scene that she was feeling at all sad or guilty about the betrayal. Perhaps I need to read the book but it sounds like that version would fit the story and Vesper's personality and mental state better.

I am surprised more people have not discussed the death scene as I don't think it made sense and it sets the whole premise for QofS!

[MkB]

I still don't understand Vesper's death in CR. It came as a shock to me because nothing in her character indicated she was the kind that would have killed herself in that way.

I get that she felt guilty for betraying Bond but why drown yourself in such a horrific way right in front of him when he was trying to save her? She must have known she would be hurting him more? What could have been worth dying for? If it was guilt then there were no signs leading up to that scene that she was feeling at all sad or guilty about the betrayal. Perhaps I need to read the book but it sounds like that version would fit the story and Vesper's personality and mental state better.

I am surprised more people have not discussed the death scene as I don't think it made sense and it sets the whole premise for QofS!

As far as I understand, she decided to kill herself because her betrayal was discovered, and she couldn't face her whole life (especially with Bond) being torn to pieces because of that. Remember the look on bond's face, before she makes the move to drown herself in the lift? He looks nothing like happy with her. It's only when he realises she's going to die that he changes his mind.

But there is indeed one thing I don't get about her death: how did it save Bond? I mean, he had already discovered she had betrayed him, so whether she ad killed herself or not, what difference did it make? Had she lived, she would have been sent to prison or something in the like, but would have Bond been under any threat? I don't see how...

[LazyAmerican24]

As much as I loved Vespers death in the movie (That sounds horrible but nevermind) there is a part of me what would have loved to see her death in the novel brought to the big screen. I know that in the first draft of the Casino Royale script this was the case but it was changed and ended up being what we saw in the finished movie.

It would be interesting to read the original script draft to see how the writers would have worked that out.

Now, do you preffer her death in the movie as it is, or would you have liked to see her overdose like she did in the novel instead?

I think it worked just fine in the film as is. Vepser simply taking an overdose and leaving a suicide note for Bond to read reads better but doesn't play as well cinematically. The haunting visuals of Vesper drowning in the elevator with Arnold's sad rendition of the "Vesper" theme playing in the background works very effectively and memorably.

Thing nearly brought me to tears that's for damn sure, great ending IMO. I agree with everything you said. I would have hated a suicide note ending it is more cinematic and tragic because Bond is seeing his love die right in front of his eyes and there's nothing he can do.

and P.S
to answer your question MkB her killing herself saved Bond because he would've been crushed by the falling building trying to save her so she knew if she let go and let the elevator fall into the river she knew Bond would jump in to save her

Edited by LazyAmerican24, 20 November 2008 - 02:29 AM.

[Bondian]

Here a bit of a chuck-in. How about Bond witnessing Vesper committing suicide whilst he's confined to his wheelchair. He's powerless. Seeing the love of his life kill herself unaided would be more powerful IMHO. But then again, I maybe talking a load of hogwash.