24 replies to this topic

[Dell Deaton]

Could use some help from any of you all who collect or at least know something about first editions of the Fleming Bond novels.

Are subsequent "Impressions" of a book pretty much the same as the first edition, only printed in later press runs? I believe there are some minor differences, eg, references to later novels that were published after the first impression, and, of course adjustments to copyright information.

Any education here would be appreciated!

[clublos]

I'm not sure why, but there were multiple impressions of the Bond books printed by Cape. If you're going to collect the books, look out for first edition, first impression. Additionally, the number line at the bottom of the publisher's page should have all numbers 1-10 and there should be NO references to later editions anywhere in the book or on the dust jacket.

Oh, and remember to check the quality of the dust jacket, especially that the price has not been clipped.

Good luck!

[DAN LIGHTER]

This looks like the thread I was looking for!

I purchased a copy of You Only Live Twice some time ago and thought it was a first edition. But have since read that it’s a second impression. Could someone please help me to identify exactly what it is?

It states "First Published March 1964”

So is it second state or second impression? What’s the difference?

Also is it worth much and is it really considered a first impression?

[doublenoughtspy]

As I've explained in other threads - book first editions are like pregnancy. It's either a first edition or it isn't.

Book dealers will use flowery language and do everything they can to convince you that a "First Edition, 2nd Impression" is a "First Edition" but the simple fact remains that it isn't the first edition.

My understanding is that by using the word impression, that refers to the fact that the same plates were used to print the pages. 2nd Editions meanwhile will usually mean that there might be new or corrected plates for some of the pages, if the author or the book publisher wanted something corrected.

"2nd state" is more a collecting term rather than a publishers term - and again it refers to some sort of later correction/addition/change to the dust jacket or book itself.

Dan, considering there were 56,000 of the first edition of YOLT - the answer is "not much" probably. How much did you pay for it?

[DAN LIGHTER]

Well between me and you and the other forum users, I paid 50 hard english pounds for this little puppy.

So its not a first edition is it Doublenoughtspy? Be honest I can take it. I think the first lot were printed in march and the second lot were printed after which makes up the 56,000?

[FLEMINGFAN]

This looks like the thread I was looking for!

I purchased a copy of You Only Live Twice some time ago and thought it was a first edition. But have since read that it’s a second impression. Could someone please help me to identify exactly what it is?

It states "First Published March 1964”

So is it second state or second impression? What’s the difference?

Also is it worth much and is it really considered a first impression?

Unfortunately, your book is a second edition. The true first edition states "First Published 1964".

This is one of the few times they did a 'deception' like this. It is not the norm and the usual "First edition" is what you would go by.

Later books would have the numbering system. As long as the "1" is there, you have a first edition.

[doublenoughtspy]

So its not a first edition is it Doublenoughtspy? Be honest I can take it. I think the first lot were printed in march and the second lot were printed after which makes up the 56,000?

My understanding is that the first ones off the presses said "First Published 1964" and then later they changed the plates and the later run said "First Published March 1964". When that happened in the print run I do not know, and I can't tell you how many were printed one way verses the other.


There is a YOLT first edition, with the "First Published 1964", on eBay right now for a wallet busting 10 pounds. The dust jacket has some parts missing.

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

Could use some help from any of you all who collect or at least know something about first editions of the Fleming Bond novels.

Are subsequent "Impressions" of a book pretty much the same as the first edition, only printed in later press runs? I believe there are some minor differences, eg, references to later novels that were published after the first impression, and, of course adjustments to copyright information.

Any education here would be appreciated!

I started collecting Cape reprints some ten years ago and believe me, first printing were very expensive then and pretty much unatainable these days. It's very easy for someone to tell you, go for the fist printings when it's not them paying.
Subsequent impressions are indeed pretty much the same as the first.

This looks like the thread I was looking for!

I purchased a copy of You Only Live Twice some time ago and thought it was a first edition. But have since read that it’s a second impression. Could someone please help me to identify exactly what it is?

It states "First Published March 1964”

So is it second state or second impression? What’s the difference?

Also is it worth much and is it really considered a first impression?

I am not sure about what you're trying to say. That "have since read it's a second impression" means you realised it said so in the book itself or elsewhere? If yours only states First published March 1964 it indeed is a first printing.

I am not sure why, but there were multiple impressions of the Bond books printed by Cape. If you're going to collect the books, look out for first edition, first impression. Additionally, the number line at the bottom of the publisher's page should have all numbers 1-10 and there should be NO references to later editions anywhere in the book or on the dust jacket.

Oh, and remember to check the quality of the dust jacket, especially that the price has not been clipped.

Good luck!

The 1-10 line is a much later thing and shouldn't appear on Fleming firsts.

Edited by Donovan Mayne-Nicholls, 11 March 2009 - 02:29 PM.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Donovan Mayne-Nicholls What I am trying to say is I have since read on the internet when "March" is in the title of the book it is either a second impression or second edition. But you still think its a first edition?

I got it for £50 smackers of eBay, and it now appears that I have been done up like a kipper. I had read not to buy first editions from eBay and now I know why. And it was for my birthday present as well.

Edited by DAN LIGHTER, 11 March 2009 - 04:46 PM.

[zencat]

So its not a first edition is it Doublenoughtspy? Be honest I can take it. I think the first lot were printed in march and the second lot were printed after which makes up the 56,000?

My understanding is that the first ones off the presses said "First Published 1964" and then later they changed the plates and the later run said "First Published March 1964". When that happened in the print run I do not know, and I can't tell you how many were printed one way verses the other.

This is what I heard as well. Like the two states of Dr. No (one with girl on board and one without), I have both on my First Edition shelf.

I ignore the word "impression" because it's used too often by book deals to blur the truth of what they have. I will see listings for Casino Royales that are "First Edition - Second Impression." Nonsense. That is a Second Edition.

[Doctor Shatterhand]

Well between me and you and the other forum users, I paid 50 hard english pounds for this little puppy.

So its not a first edition is it Doublenoughtspy? Be honest I can take it. I think the first lot were printed in march and the second lot were printed after which makes up the 56,000?

It also depends on the condition, Dan. Your book may be in fact what you paid for it. It could also be that you got a bargain too.

I try to look at it this way. I collect Bond books and other collectibles because I like to and not because I am hoping that one day this item is going to fetch me some big bucks. It is a hobby and at times a costly one, but if it brings you pleasure and you can claim bragging rights, enjoy it.

[DAN LIGHTER]

So I guess its best to get it from a proper book dealer rather than run the risk with eBay. After all, we are all looking for a bargin on eBay and there are plenty to take advantage of us fans.

I am looking at my second edition of You Only Live Twice on the bookshelf above the computer with scorn now.

If anyone is intrested, there is a First Edition of You Only Live Twice up for auction soon on ebay. Starting price £50. I will post the link soon.............

Joking aside thank you for your help. I still have to find a Fleming first edition. If anyone knows a good place to start let me know.

[zencat]

I am looking at my second edition of You Only Live Twice on the bookshelf above the computer with scorn now.

I still consider those March 1964 YOLT first editions. Like I said, I have a March one sitting on my shelf beside the 1964 one. Both are firsts. Just that the '64 one has "priority."

[DAN LIGHTER]

Well between me and you and the other forum users, I paid 50 hard english pounds for this little puppy.

So its not a first edition is it Doublenoughtspy? Be honest I can take it. I think the first lot were printed in march and the second lot were printed after which makes up the 56,000?

It also depends on the condition, Dan. Your book may be in fact what you paid for it. It could also be that you got a bargain too.

I try to look at it this way. I collect Bond books and other collectibles because I like to and not because I am hoping that one day this item is going to fetch me some big bucks. It is a hobby and at times a costly one, but if it brings you pleasure and you can claim bragging rights, enjoy it.

You hae a great point there Dr Shatterhand. When I got that book through the post I was dead chuffed! And its in good condition. My first book published when Ian Fleming was alive.

[Doctor Shatterhand]

I have the complete Fleming hardbacks, but they are the reissued versions produced by First Edition Library during the late 1990s. I don't have an original hardback from the 50s or 60s but I am very content with the reissues simply because they look very nice.

You however have one from 1964 and not too many collectors can boast about that.

[[dark]]

I try to look at it this way. I collect Bond books and other collectibles because I like to and not because I am hoping that one day this item is going to fetch me some big bucks. It is a hobby and at times a costly one, but if it brings you pleasure and you can claim bragging rights, enjoy it.

This is exactly how I see it too. I'm not picking up Bond books with the intention of one day flogging them and retiring on the profits. (Maybe in my final days... none of my friends or family would appreciate them like I do!)

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

Donovan Mayne-Nicholls What I am trying to say is I have since read on the internet when "March" is in the title of the book it is either a second impression or second edition. But you still think its a first edition?

I got it for £50 smackers of eBay, and it now appears that I have been done up like a kipper. I had read not to buy first editions from eBay and now I know why. And it was for my birthday present as well.

Checked mine. Reads "First published March 1964" on the first line and in the fourth "Second impression April 1964". If yours doesn't say anything else, it should be a first. Always check the evidence regardless.
Cheers

[superado]

According to the Internet's foremost soucrce of factual information:

http://en.wikipedia....s.27_definition

Collectors' definition
A common complaint of book collectors is that the bibliographer's definition is used in a book-collecting context. For example, J. D. Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye remains in print in hardcover. The type is the same as the 1951 first printing, therefore all hardcover copies are, for the bibliographer, the first edition. Collectors would use the term for the first printing only.

First edition most often refers to the first commercial publication of a work between its own covers, even if it was first printed in a periodical: the complete text of Ernest Hemingway’s The Old Man and the Sea appeared in the September 1, 1952 issue of Life magazine, yet the generally accepted “first” edition is the hardcover book Scribner’s published on September 8, 1952.

The term "first trade edition," refers to the earliest edition of a book offered for sale to the general public in book stores. For example, Upton Sinclair's 1906 novel The Jungle was published in two variant forms. A "Sustainers' Edition", published by the Jungle Publishing Company, was sent to subscribers who had advanced funds to Sinclair. The first trade edition was published by Doubleday, Page to be sold in bookstores.

A small minority of book collectors, particularly in the science fiction field, hold that the earliest bound copies of a book--promotional advance copies: bound galleys, uncorrected proofs, advance reading copies sent by publishers to book reviewers and booksellers--are the true first edition.

So, in what I'd consider the practical sense, the umpteenth printing of a 1st edition, is a 1st edition, and yes, I am the proud owner of these out of choice . But at the extreme end of the technical spectrum regarding what collectors view as true 1st editions, this would hypothetically qualify an issue of Playboy or Esquire featuring a Bond story that happens to predate the 1st edition of the traditional hardcover.

In the end, as long as I have versions of the books that more or less are in the same form of the 1st editions that readers of those times enjoyed, then I too am happy to share that experience and privilege. For that reason, I'd give more intrinsic value to used copies of these 1st edition/30th impression books than a minty facsimilie though the latter may cost a lot more; however, my display copies of the 1st 3 novels are facsimilies just because any impression of their 1st editions, with reasonably intact dustjackets are just too expensive or very hard to find!

Edited by superado, 12 March 2009 - 02:02 AM.

[DAN LIGHTER]

It was this website that originally confused me a little. http://www.bookselle...lylivetwice.htm

On the linked website it states:-
Important note if it states “First Published March 1964 Verso page rather than “First Published 1964” then it is second issue.

Now don’t get me wrong Gentlemen, I have great pride in my Bond book collection. I just wanted to identify exactly what I had.

Recently I was in a local bookshop browsing the books. They always have fabulous signed first editions for sale etc. (They also have signed By Royal Command and Hurricane Gold still in stock if anyone is interested) And I stumbled upon Devil May Care and it had a blue band around it indicating that it was signed. I couldn’t believe my luck! But guess how much? £100. I guess I thought as it was an independent book shop competing with the large chain Waterstones it would put the customer first.

[Craig Arthur]

Nick,
My advice would be just try to get a set of Jonathan Cape hardback editions with dustjackets, don't worry if they are firsts or not. At least then they will look the same (with the exception of Casino Royale - which has a Pat Mariot cover instead of the nine bleeding hearts). I really believe that it makes a big difference just having the Fleming novels with those amazing Mariot and Richard Chopping dustcovers. My collection is half early 1960s reprints and half first editions (from FYEO onward). I tell myself it is the equivalent of having a set purchased in that era.

Ironically all of my first editions cost me less than $1 each, apart from FYEO which cost me $NZ100. Whereas the reprints cost me $200 total. I deliberately chose mint condition 1960s reprints over over-priced poor condition first editions - often ex-library. I mean what would you rather have? I say go for nice quality reprints.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Thanks Chaps! I will hang on to my edition of You Only Live Twice. I dont collect to make a profit. I just like the fact I have the authors first uk edtion. Your right Craig, you cant beat the Chopping covers!

Can an expert tell me what to look for when it comes to the First UK Edition of Raymond Benson's Zero Minus Ten? Is it the red cover with the eye on it? Also what should be on the copyright page?

[Craig Arthur]

It will simply say published by Hodder and Stoughton 1997, no mention of any reprints. If it does, it is not a first edition.

[DAN LIGHTER]

My copy of Zero Minus Ten has the number 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 on the copyright page. Does anyone know what it refers to? I keep telling my Mum its a first edition but she thinks its had 10 prints already.

[Craig Arthur]

All the numbers in sequence means that it is a first impression. When they do a reprint they drop a number each time. By the eighth or ninth impression there will be only two numbers left.

However, this is where it gets confusing - other publishers (Penguin for example) start with a single number for the first impression (1) and then simply replace it with a 2, 3, 4 . . . for each subsequent printing. So if you look at your Young Bond books you can tell what impression the book is.

So, anyway, your "Zero Minus Ten" is a first edition, first impression.

[FLEMINGFAN]

This looks like the thread I was looking for!

I purchased a copy of You Only Live Twice some time ago and thought it was a first edition. But have since read that it’s a second impression. Could someone please help me to identify exactly what it is?

It states "First Published March 1964”

So is it second state or second impression? What’s the difference?

Also is it worth much and is it really considered a first impression?

Unfortunately, your book is a second edition. The true first edition states "First Published 1964".

This is one of the few times they did a 'deception' like this. It is not the norm and the usual "First edition" is what you would go by.

Later books would have the numbering system. As long as the "1" is there, you have a first edition.