67 replies to this topic

[Odd Jobbies]

Strange question, but it warrants an answer.  Pierce is my choice. He had a tough ride into that part, with Remington Steele nixing it when he was at his 'Bond-prime'.  Plus his wife's sad death and his inevitable family problems (can't be easy bringing up a kid as a single parent in Hollywood -i struggle as it is in S. London with a wife to help (read that as 'Does almost everything').

 

When his chance comes around it's fortuitous that it was a time when they'd had to pep things up quite a bit with a new director etc, but then to have increasingly poor script and mismatched directors thrown at him thereafter, well my heart goes out to the guy (lets not get carried away, though, he did get to be James bloody Bond FFS    )

 

I'm very happy for him that he got at least one of the best Bond movies under his belt (GE) and has been vindicated since as a good actor with, not least The Matador and that tells me that he could've risen his game accordingly had the scripts been better.

 

Brossa, i salute you

[thecasinoroyale]

For me it has to be Timothy Dalton - my first Bond I ever saw on VHS in 'Licence To Kill'.

 

2 brilliant films; 1 sticking to the faithful core of the movie spirit for 007 and 1 being brave, bold and faithful to the core of the Fleming character.

 

Just sadly overlooked in following the mighty footsteps of the much loved and humorous portrayal of Roger Moore. The drastic change in tone and style was obviously going to uproot firm fans who had a Bond cemented for the past 12 years, and a 4 year run with 2 films was enough to show us how well Dalton understood the character, but just not enough to convince audiences.

 

A brilliant actor with 2 great Bond films under his belt, I will defend Dalton to the moon and back because without him I wouldn't be a Bond fan probably for as long as I have been thanks to the exciting action and adventure that was 'Licence To Kill'.

 

Anyone who has a bad word to say about the man has to come through me first!

[Odd Jobbies]

The drastic change in tone and style was obviously going to uproot firm fans who had a Bond cemented for the past 12 years...

My problem with TLD is that should have been a far more drastic change. But just about everyone behind the camera (and some in front) had made the previous half dozen or so Bond movies.

 

They'd become hackneyed and changing the face, but not the style (enough), just made a fool of Dalton, really. They sold TLD as being more faithful to Fleming, but either they were out of their depths, or too afraid to make the stuff as gritty and dark as it was pretending to be. Poor Dalton was trying his hardest to give us his Bond, but his teeth had been pulled by a dull script, bland cinematography and by-the-numbers direction.

 

No offence to the guys, they were just set in their ways by this time - it was a return job (a nice, rare little earner in the film industry) to which they'd turn up and do it all again like the last one.

 

I think grittier direction LTK took is shows that i wasn't alone in feeling this way about TLD. Unfortunately it wasn't the greatest script and was shot a little like a tv movie. Miami Vice was just coming to an end as LTK was released and the tone, look and script ape it a little too much. It's hard to appreciate the enormous cultural impact Miami Vice had if you weren't around, so i can sympathise with Eon taking their cue from it, but Dalton is no more Sunny Crockett than he is Roger Moore.

 

What sank it without trace was the 15 certificate, but i don't a PG could've really saved it. Eon were still using half measures for their new Bond. With Brossa they went back to the full cinematic-Bond template and we all know that soon unravelled. They finally went 'full measures' with Craig and one has to feel Dalton's pain when he sees the Craig movies and thinks 'Why the bloody hell didn't they do that for me?'

[thecasinoroyale]

I agree with your view on 'TLD' - while it's not ground-breaking, you put it very well in that it's very safe. Template bad guys, motives and Bond action which I guess, for EON at that time, they had to keep there to follow a 2 year gap without real room to change or expand the character.

 

I think it does just what you'd expect it to do as a Bond vehicle, but probably wasn't the right one for Dalton and his 007.

 

And I wasn't around for Miami Vice (born in 85) but I know enough of it and can see the similarities EON went for now you mention it, but as you say, Dalton isn't Crockett or even Tubbs!

 

I like your summary of Craig's role; Dalton wishing he had the same treatment. I guess back in '87 there were stagnant in delivering what worked and when they tried to change too fast and too dramatically, it fell flat. Give Dalton a 4 to 6 year break after Moore (as Brosnan and Craig had with their debut), it may have worked out better for Dalton.

[DamnCoffee]

Pierce without any doubt. Roger was my favourite, Sean was the best, but Pierce is my Bond. A shame his era went the way it did post GoldenEye but Pierce Brosnan really wasn't the problem. In fact, Brosnan could've been amazing in the right hands, it was sadly an era let down by terrible direction and poor writing. 

[Odd Jobbies]

Give Dalton a 4 to 6 year break after Moore (as Brosnan and Craig had with their debut), it may have worked out better for Dalton.

No argument there.

 

...Brosnan could've been amazing in the right hands

Absolutely! Look at how good he was in The Matador, Tailor of Panama and Seraphim Falls.   I've always been delighted that Craig became Bond - i'd been rooting for him as Bond many years prior to Layer Cake, but had, instead, Brossa been directed by Tarantino in his Bond finale.... i think it would've created a new bench mark for the character that Craig may have had to work harder to match, let alone surpass.

 

Putting aside everyone's mixed opinions of whether or not Tarantino should be allowed to direct Bond, one thing is virtually for certain, Mr T would've eaked every last ounce of potential out of Brossa giving us undoubtedly his best Bond performance by many degrees. From Travolta and Willis to Robert Forster, to Christopher Waltz he gets career best performances from his actors.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 23 February 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[S K Y F A L L]

Brosnan. The Bond I grow up with. Glad to see he has a lot of love in here, it's overwhelmingly. He was the perfect 90s Bond IMO and gets a bad rap for DAD. Would have been delighted to have a fifth film with him in 2004 but it leaves us wanting more Bond and a longer Bond continuity that of which we haven't seen since the Moore films. 

[dtuba]

 

The drastic change in tone and style was obviously going to uproot firm fans who had a Bond cemented for the past 12 years...

My problem with TLD is that should have been a far more drastic change. But just about everyone behind the camera (and some in front) had made the previous half dozen or so Bond movies.

 

They'd become hackneyed and changing the face, but not the style (enough), just made a fool of Dalton, really. They sold TLD as being more faithful to Fleming, but either they were out of their depths, or too afraid to make the stuff as gritty and dark as it was pretending to be. Poor Dalton was trying his hardest to give us his Bond, but his teeth had been pulled by a dull script, bland cinematography and by-the-numbers direction.

 

No offence to the guys, they were just set in their ways by this time - it was a return job (a nice, rare little earner in the film industry) to which they'd turn up and do it all again like the last one.

 

I think grittier direction LTK took is shows that i wasn't alone in feeling this way about TLD. Unfortunately it wasn't the greatest script and was shot a little like a tv movie. Miami Vice was just coming to an end as LTK was released and the tone, look and script ape it a little too much. It's hard to appreciate the enormous cultural impact Miami Vice had if you weren't around, so i can sympathise with Eon taking their cue from it, but Dalton is no more Sunny Crockett than he is Roger Moore.

 

What sank it without trace was the 15 certificate, but i don't a PG could've really saved it. Eon were still using half measures for their new Bond. With Brossa they went back to the full cinematic-Bond template and we all know that soon unravelled. They finally went 'full measures' with Craig and one has to feel Dalton's pain when he sees the Craig movies and thinks 'Why the bloody hell didn't they do that for me?'

 

I don't think TLD "made a fool" of Dalton at all. Yes, the script was "generic Bond", written to no specific actor, but Dalton was terrific in it. He is a good enough actor that his performance overshadowed the mediocrity of the material.