278 replies to this topic

[Double-Oh Agent]

I have a hard time selecting an overrated Bond film. If I have to choose one I suppose I'd go with Casino Royale. While it is a really good film, I don't think it's quite as great as most make it out to be--certainly so much better than Pierce Brosnan's films as many frequently point out. Yes, Daniel Craig gives the best debut 007 performance but the final half-hour is a little slow and the double cross involving Vesper and/or Mathis is confusing and not well-explained (perhaps intentionally so).

As for underrated, I feel I have to mention Diamonds Are Forever, which is a fun film throughout with great one-liners. But the top two choices for me are Licence To Kill and Octopussy. LTK is a well-done exciting revenge thriller with a great storyline that brings out Bond's bad side wonderfully. Octopussy, meanwhile, has suspense, humor, and a good plot. Moore gives a solid performance as do the villains and the film has great exotic locations.

[MarkA]

Most underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

It just goes to show how subjective this whole thing is. Octopussy along with AVTAK and NSNA (which I simply cannot watch) are the most dire movies of the series with practically no redeeming features whatsoever and yet you say Casino Royale is overated. Which though not perfect beats hands down in terms of story, acting, direction and a million other things. It makes me wonder do people ever compare Bond's with overall cinema or just judge within the confines of the series. Because Octopussy (like a lot of 80's Bond's) as a film is so badly made.

Edited by MarkA, 10 August 2008 - 08:29 AM.

[dinovelvet]

most overrated bond movie is Casino Royale.
after a longer absence 4 years Bond was back with a new
actor. I am probably older than most of my 007 brothers and sisters
which may have influenced my opinion. Too much like a new spy/bourne
type movie had little 007 feel to the movie. i re-read CR before
watching the movie( first one in 25 years I did not go to the movies
to see). Daniel Craig is a very good actor but seems miscast as
Bond. even in interviews he doesn't seem to get it. he just is no
007 for me.

Moste underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

Well if Octopussy is the "it", then I'm very glad Daniel Craig apparently does not "get it"

[HH007]

most overrated bond movie is Casino Royale.
after a longer absence 4 years Bond was back with a new
actor. I am probably older than most of my 007 brothers and sisters
which may have influenced my opinion. Too much like a new spy/bourne
type movie had little 007 feel to the movie. i re-read CR before
watching the movie( first one in 25 years I did not go to the movies
to see). Daniel Craig is a very good actor but seems miscast as
Bond. even in interviews he doesn't seem to get it. he just is no
007 for me.

Moste underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

Well if Octopussy is the "it", then I'm very glad Daniel Craig apparently does not "get it"

I'm also glad that Craig doesn't "get it," since he's given us the first interesting interpretation of Bond since Dalton. I just can't help but sigh at those who say he's "too-short-too-blond-too-much-like-Bourne-or-Bauer-ears-too-big-just-not-Bond" people.

EDIT: One more thing for saint007. What does age have to do with our opinions? I'm sure everyone who posts on this site, from 17 year-old Mharkin to 27 year-old me to however old you are has seen DR. NO, CASINO ROYALE, and all the films in between.

[SecretAgentFan]

Most overrated: LICENCE TO KILL

Actually, it´s pretty pedestrian, charmless and TV movie like. Dalton was so much better in TLD. And the cringeworthy ending still is one of the worst scenes in any Bond film. Having said that, I do enjoy watching it since it is a Bond film and therefore better than most other action/crime thrillers.

Most underrated: YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE

Granted, it is kind of cheesy and a typical late 60´s entry with the ridiculous Bond as Japanese-makeup. However, if you watch it as a Bond´s fever dream (and it really moves and is narrated like a dream), one can really enjoy it for its fantastic images and John Barry´s best 007 score.

[john.steed]

most overrated bond movie is Casino Royale.
after a longer absence 4 years Bond was back with a new
actor. I am probably older than most of my 007 brothers and sisters
which may have influenced my opinion. Too much like a new spy/bourne
type movie had little 007 feel to the movie. i re-read CR before
watching the movie( first one in 25 years I did not go to the movies
to see). Daniel Craig is a very good actor but seems miscast as
Bond. even in interviews he doesn't seem to get it. he just is no
007 for me.

Moste underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

You pretty much capture my feeling about Casino Royale. I also like Octopussy. However, my choice for most underrated is You Only Live Twice, I had only seen OHMSS when I saw it it with Thunderball on a release. I was blown away with it. Perhaps more than with most Bond films, people miss something not seeing the secens like the Little Nelly battle on a TV rather than a big screen.

[Col. Sun]

Underrated -- Moonraker.

Yes, the plot is by the numbers, but it's brilliantly made and superbly photographed and designed. And the in-camera (original negative) visual FX and model work is simply excellent, even by 21st century standards. Moore is also on top form (better than Brosnan ever was IMO), and the script, although knowingly corny and OTT in places, knows exactly what it wants to achieve and does it so well. Yes, the female characters are underwritten, but the overall film has incredible style and it's also the last "classic Bond" in terms of having that unique Ken Adam design.

Most overrated Bond - sorry, don't have one -- but most certainly it isn't CR, which - IMO - is the best film of the series so far, even better than OHMSS because Craig is at the centre and he' so compelling in the role. QOS, I suspect, will confirm this.

[BoogieBond]

Overrated - Goldfinger - Great film, but IMO not the best of the 21 Bond films, as it is normally referred to by critics and the public.


Underrated - Agreed with a lot of others, Live and Let Die.
Runner up for me would be For Your Eyes Only.
Special mention to OHMSS, normally omitted by Critics and the public, but overall highly rated by Bond fans.

Edited by BoogieBond, 11 August 2008 - 05:53 PM.

[Blonde Bond]

Overrated - Casino Royale. Don't get me wrong, it's all around good film and has very charismatic Bond. My only concern about this film is that many people say it's THE BEST. It's not that. But it's one of the bests. It's not the dominating Bond movie people make it to be. There are other films in the series that are as good as Casino Royale is. As good as, but not better

FRWL

Boring. It moves too slowly, the locations aren't that interesting, it has one of most underwhelming Bond girls in the series.
Kerim Bey isn't very interesting ally, but I do give the actor props for completing his role for the film.

In my opinion Dr.No is much better and more interesting film than FRWL.


Underrated: Moonraker and TWINE

Moonraker is much better movie than it's twin; TSWLM. It balances well with the usual adventure without going overly Star Trek with the scifi part of the film. It has great exotic locations and Moore's really shining in this movie.

I don't get it why TWINE has the reputation it has. Brosnan does his best performance in this movie and the movie, I'm going to use this word again, balances well with the "Soap opera" drama, like some people make it be, and thrilling action sequences like the first 15 minutes of the film. Also the new M gets some meat over her bones, and her character feels more human in this movie than in any other films Judi has portrayed her. I don't even mind that she gets kidnapped, being a the boss and all, since it's a movie! But it's a far better use of the M, than just having one briefing scene. It worked in the movie and fleshed out her character. The action, most of it, has also been well directed and looks good and I don't get it why people always complain about this movies action.

[Publius]

I love the air of objectivity in the thread title and many of the posts here. The word "overrated" should really read "it seems like others, on average, like this more than I do." Yet, people use it like they've discovered some great secret truth that should become obvious to everyone else with time or education.

Anyway, I agree that Goldfinger is probably "overrated" by the general public, as are TSWLM and Goldeneye. Hell, in my experience, TWINE and DAD get more love than I can understand.

On the other hand, I think that OHMSS, TLD, LTK, and the Terence Young Bonds don't get enough attention or are flat-out "underrated," especially in light of CR's immense popularity.

Among fandom, TMWTGG gets it worse than makes sense to me, so I guess that makes it underrated. I don't think we overrate many films here, though, considering the propensity of fans to be so damn negative.

[dee-bee-five]

For me, the most overrated has to be Thunderball, which I find dull and dreary (apart from when Fiona is onscreen). And it can't be an age thing because it was still playing in cinemas, albeit in a double bill, when I first saw it.

Underrated for me has to be The World Is Not Enough.

[MkB]

I'd like to make a precision about my choices:

underrated:

* by Bond fans: TWINE indeed
* by general audience: OHMSS (and that's putting it mildly, since the majority of the general audience doesn't even seem to know this film exists)

[Simon]

A tough one to answer since what passed for Excitement in the 60s will no longer pass muster in the heady 00s.

However, Goldfinger must get my vote for over rated. I wasn't around to gauge the excitement in '64 but I must presume it will have been the Bourne Supremacy of its day. That said, today I do yawn a little, in the same way I yawn at most of the rest of Hamilton's output. He got lucky with Goldfinger due to Connery and Astons, all in the same film.

The most under rated should be TND; an impossible production schedule turned out a relaxed performance in the face of some crap writing and, at least for the first half of the film, a modern classic Bond.

[[dark]]

To be honest, Moore's films are probably the only ones up for debate here (though I am a fan of the Brosnan era, albeit not to the extent I once was). For the most part, the films of Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig are worthy entries.

For Your Eyes Only immediately springs to mind for most overrated. I posted a similar criticism in another thread recently, but it's a decidedly joyless affair that, beyond a few neat set pieces (the keelhauling sequence and mountain climbing climax), commits the two cardinal sins of a James Bond film: it's dull and unmemorable. Its heart is in the right place - to go tonally from Moonraker to For Your Eyes Only in a single film is admirable - but the result is fairly forgettable.

Another contender would be The Spy Who Loved Me. It's a grand Bond film - in my eyes, one that guaranteed the series' future - but not quite worthy of the huge praise that's frequently heaped upon it.

A View to a Kill must rank as one of the most underrated in the series. Sure, some criticisms levelled at it are probably founded (though Moore's age doesn't bother me as much as it does most), but it has some amazing action sequences. I love the ambition of the firetruck chase and the superb Golden Gate Bridge finale never gets its dues among fans. Oh, and John Barry's deadly serious score is one of his best.

Octopussy seems to split fans down the middle, but Moore turns in possibly his best performance, one that is matched by Maud Adams' excellent turn as the title character. Moonraker seems to have undergone a recent re-evaluation by Bond fans, so I probably wouldn't consider it underrated. Live and Let Die (middling) and The Man with the Golden Gun (pretty poor) fit the apparent consensus here.

The World Is Not Enough is the other criminally underrated entry in the series. Its crew nearly - I said nearly! - rivals that of the Craig era: Brosnan (in an understated yet confident performance), Marceau (compelling), Carlyle (as a formidable foe, whose imperviousness to pain is sadly wasted) and Apted (hurl abuse at me, but I enjoyed his direction of the movie's dramatic scenes). It's far from perfect (Denise Richards, I'm looking at you - which is pretty much the only reason she was there), but you'd think the movie's crew personally ran over every Bond fan's dog, the way it's slagged off on this site.

[Judo chop]

Again, the problem with determining underratedness and overratedness of the Bond films is that the point of reference, the ‘actual ratedness’, is virtually unknowable.

It’s my best guess that YOLT probably stands around the middle of the pack, as far as the average opinion goes. That’s way, way too high in my opinion. YOLT is a shameful effort on its good days.

And it’s my best guess that LALD probably stands just below the middle of the pack as far as the average opinion goes, and that is way, way too low in my opinion. Another contender for most underrated is certainly MOONRAKER. Actually, that may be the winner. I suppose it’s a bottom-fiver based on the average opinion, while it’s just above the .500 mark on my list.

Some films deserve their glory (FRWL, OHMSS, CR) while some deserve their punishment (DAF, TWINE, LTK).

I’d love to see a good ‘poll’ taken here on CBn where members can rank or rate the films and the data are displayed as averages for each film. It'd be nice if it wasn't lost in a thread either. I don't know if something like that could be posted on the main page or what.
Anyway, I wouldn’t care about the results at first, but once a thousand members had voted it could be interesting to see just how it all pans out, and to truly see how well or poorly something like YOLT is rated.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Most underrated Bond movie for me is Goldeneye. It's my favourite and although many pther people have agreed wit me, I've read countless posts on CBN that lay into Goldeneye and I can't understand why! It has the best action sequences and some great performances (Sean Bean in particular).

Most overrated? Probably Thunderball. It's a good film, but a bit too long and the underwater scenes drag on to a great length.

[Judo chop]

Most overrated? Probably Thunderball. It's a good film, but a bit too long and the underwater scenes drag on to a great length.

I agree. The length of the underwater sequence is great. As is the rest of the film.

[00Twelve]

I think I share Judo's difficulty with the basic "rating" of each film. It's all subjective, obviously, and I've seen many folks think polar opposite things about the same films.

I suppose I'd have to go with LALD for "most (relatively) underrated" film. I love it more and more as time passes.

And I guess I'd have to call GF the "most (relatively) overrated" film. Because I'm original like that.

While I don't consider any of the films to be above "overrating", I do think that TWINE cannot possibly be underrated. My subjective opinion, of course, but there it is. I can't think of the last time I could watch it all the way through, nor can I fathom the next.

[Harmsway]

While I don't consider any of the films to be above "overrating", I do think that TWINE cannot possibly be underrated. My subjective opinion, of course, but there it is. I can't think of the last time I could watch it all the way through, nor can I fathom the next.

Agreed. I cannot consider THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH anything other than awful.

[Mister E]

GOLDENEYE is numero uno on my overrated Bond list. I am sick to death of the praise this film gets. Pierce Brosnan was completely wooden with an intro that ended with a stupid joke, Sean Bean was more like Bond but played a forgetable villian, and film itself is a generic action film of the 90's. I am also tired of the praise of the film's "darkness". Nothing about the film was dark or serious, it just took place in alot of cold industrial settings and computer rooms. Blandness does not mean darkness. Even the lighting in warmer locales looked strange and un-natural. Also the so called personal elements in this film did not seem genuine in the least, more like hang overs from Dalton era that were stuffed in at the last minute.

I say secound place is definetly LICENCE TO KILL. It's not Fleming, read LIVE AND LET DIE and you'll fine this is just the Miami Vice version of that great novel.

Edited by Mister E, 11 August 2008 - 08:52 PM.

[Mister E]

Agreed. I cannot consider THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH anything other than awful.

A Bond film is never good when you make him a metrosexual.

[[dark]]

While I don't consider any of the films to be above "overrating", I do think that TWINE cannot possibly be underrated. My subjective opinion, of course, but there it is. I can't think of the last time I could watch it all the way through, nor can I fathom the next.

I cannot consider THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH anything other than awful.

A Bond film is never good when you make him a metrosexual.

I don't know why, but I simply cannot grasp the utter disdain - not indifference, dislike or aversion, but utter disdain - toward The World is not Enough.

I'll no doubt be told, but I honestly cannot see what lies within The World is not Enough that makes it so execrably awful as to warrant the kind of derision that it suffers here (and is it only CBn? How is The World is not Enough received elsewhere? Its reviews were mixed, but it was rarely, as far as I recall, totally panned), especially when one considers what else the Bond canon offers.

Indeed, it has some (in my extraordinarily humbled opinion) some gems to be found within. Marceau's Elektra must surely rank in the upper tier of Bond girls; the Thames boat chase is wonderfully shot and makes excellent use of London locales; the pipeline sequence (despite Richards' presence) is something new and different; the torture scene features great chemistry between Marceau and Brosnan...

Maybe, over time, it'll receive re-evaluation within the fan community, as On Her Majesty’s Secret Service and Moonraker have before it.

[00Twelve]

While I don't consider any of the films to be above "overrating", I do think that TWINE cannot possibly be underrated. My subjective opinion, of course, but there it is. I can't think of the last time I could watch it all the way through, nor can I fathom the next.

I cannot consider THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH anything other than awful.

A Bond film is never good when you make him a metrosexual.

I don't know why, but I simply cannot grasp the utter disdain - not indifference, dislike or aversion, but utter disdain - toward The World is not Enough.

I'll no doubt be told, but I honestly cannot see what lies within The World is not Enough that makes it so execrably awful as to warrant the kind of derision that it suffers here (and is it only CBn? How is The World is not Enough received elsewhere? Its reviews were mixed, but it was rarely, as far as I recall, totally panned), especially when one considers what else the Bond canon offers.

Indeed, it has some (in my extraordinarily humbled opinion) some gems to be found within. Marceau's Elektra must surely rank in the upper tier of Bond girls; the Thames boat chase is wonderfully shot and makes excellent use of London locales; the pipeline sequence (despite Richards' presence) is something new and different; the torture scene features great chemistry between Marceau and Brosnan...

Maybe, over time, it'll receive re-evaluation within the fan community, as On Her Majesty’s Secret Service and Moonraker have before it.

I don't want to derail the thread into the umpteenth anti-TWINE thread, but I'm happy to concisely explain my own disdain.

-Criminally underused talent (Carlyle, Marceau, Coltrane)
-Overlong PTS
-Ridiculously large MI6 team that dwarfed even that of the late Moore era
-The most puerile Moneypenny/Bond banter yet
-Overhyped, underwhelming damage to the MI6 building and Bond himself
-Too many henchman, not any that were fleshed out into characters worthy of viewers' investment
-Weak material for M
-Mediocre action sequences (Ski chase, casino factory)
-Busty mid-twenties nuclear physicist
-Said busty physicist's name existing only to facilitate a lame, juvenile final line
-Dynamic new female villain reverting back to classic monologuing during torture chair scene (Yawn)
-Weak final confrontation on sub
-The most underwhelming final fight I could imagine for a man who feels no pain
-Said juvenile final line

There's more I could be picky about, but I'm sure that's plenty for this thread. Sorry to carry it OT.

[Cruiserweight]

Most underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

It just goes to show how subjective this whole thing is. Octopussy along with AVTAK and NSNA (which I simply cannot watch) are the most dire movies of the series with practically no redeeming features whatsoever and yet you say Casino Royale is overated. Which though not perfect beats hands down in terms of story, acting, direction and a million other things. It makes me wonder do people ever compare Bond's with overall cinema or just judge within the confines of the series. Because Octopussy (like a lot of 80's Bond's) as a film is so badly made.

I think he is allowed to have his opinion without someone criticizing it.

[The Richmond Spy]

Regarding the "Busty mid-twenties nuclear physicist"...

Sure, it may seem unlikely that a 28 year old actress can be believable as a nuclear physicist, but I don't think it's that far-fetched. Graduate from high school at 18...get Bachelor's degree at 22...graduate program done at 26, 27 or 28? It can be done. Maybe she even earns those degrees a year or so before those ages. As for being "busty"...not all smart girls are lacking curves. As for her awkward delivery of lines...hey, maybe she's all book smarts and lacks great social skills.


There, I defended TWINE

[HH007]

Regarding the "Busty mid-twenties nuclear physicist"...

Sure, it may seem unlikely that a 28 year old actress can be believable as a nuclear physicist, but I don't think it's that far-fetched. Graduate from high school at 18...get Bachelor's degree at 22...graduate program done at 26, 27 or 28? It can be done. Maybe she even earns those degrees a year or so before those ages. As for being "busty"...not all smart girls are lacking curves. As for her awkward delivery of lines...hey, maybe she's all book smarts and lacks great social skills.


There, I defended TWINE

Fine. But there's a point you're missing... the name of that 26, 27, 28 year-old... Denise Richards. This woman is supposed to be brilliant, but there's nothing brilliant about Denise. As someone put it on another thread, she's an airhead and plays the part like an airhead. Therefor she is totally unconvincing and her casting is absurd. And your statement about Denise having book smarts... that's a joke... right?

Most underated would be Octopussy. great fun Moore Bond. The villian has a cool plot, great girls and Q having a blast!

It just goes to show how subjective this whole thing is. Octopussy along with AVTAK and NSNA (which I simply cannot watch) are the most dire movies of the series with practically no redeeming features whatsoever and yet you say Casino Royale is overated. Which though not perfect beats hands down in terms of story, acting, direction and a million other things. It makes me wonder do people ever compare Bond's with overall cinema or just judge within the confines of the series. Because Octopussy (like a lot of 80's Bond's) as a film is so badly made.

Mark, we park our cars in the same garage.

[Publius]

What I hate about TWINE:

- bloated PTS
- emo Bond (touching Elektra's tear on the monitor, confronting Elektra)
- heck, emo everybody (even Bond felt so bad for Renard that the two shared a little moment at the end)
- too much Team MI6
- M at her most annoying AND stupid... she should have been fired for what she did here
- boring action that nevertheless takes up a lot of time without advancing the plot
- weak finale that didn't make use of the much-hyped "invincible" villain/henchman
- and because it bears repeating, too damn much whining!

I actually can't stand Sophie Marceau in this movie, while I think Denise Richards is one of its few redeeming qualities.

[The Richmond Spy]

And your statement about Denise having book smarts... that's a joke... right?

Well, I doubt Denise has them...if that's what you're asking.

[saint007]

i just meant that my age would bias me toward the new direction
taken in Casino Royale. It overall did not feel like the Bond
movies I grew up watching. I certainly did not intend to be like
some others that try to degrade daniel craig's looks or
acting ability. he gave a strong performance. I may just be little
tired of 007 on a personal vendetta. I plan on going to see QOS
when it comes out in November. Iam too big of a fan to give up.
I would love if they could get the feel of a DR. No, From Russia With Love. I think that in todays age they have to keep the action
amped up somewhat to please the audience.
Thanks


I am 39 if that helps as far as what I grew up with 007. Before video the ABC Sunday night movie with
those great intros would always rev me up as a young
9,10,11 year old.

")

Edited by saint007, 12 August 2008 - 02:36 AM.

[Matt_13]

MOST OVERRATED
Goldfinger

While this film does have an occasional glimmer of cinematic gold, on the whole it is a bit of a chore to sit through. Not a whole lot really goes on thats particularly interesting to watch in my eyes. The PTS and MTS are terrific, as is the brief car chase and golf game. The rest just seems to drag a bit too much for my taste.

MOST UNDERRATED
License to Kill

While the slo mo in the PTS may be a little bit lame, LTK is not only a solid Bond movie but a solid action thriller as well. Though it does teeter on the edge of being a stereotypical 80's action movie, it maintains enough class as well as the other traditional Bond Elements to separate itself from the rest. The action is handled very well and feels down to earth compared to the previous 2 decades worth of Bond films (excluding TLD), and the dialogue despite being a little iffy at times is solid overall. I think Kamen's score is perfect, and really brings the rest of the movie to new heights with its power. Good stuff.