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Devil May Care - those who have bought the book


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#61 BoogieBond

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 12:26 AM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought?
No
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought?
No
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read?
No
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books?
Haven't read Benson.
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books?
Only read Licence Renewed. Enjoyed DMC more, so Yes.
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun?
Liked Colonel Sun more. No
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography?
Never read it.


Edited by BoogieBond, 16 June 2008 - 12:27 AM.


#62 Dr. Noah

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 01:21 AM

I'm curious to hear from people about their experience with James Bond continuation novels*

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought? No
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought? No
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read? No
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books? Yes
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books? Yes
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun? Kind of a toss-up. Kind of fun to read two different approaches following MWTGG
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography? Yes, but I enjoyed that one a lot
8) Young Bond: I like Higson a lot, especially the first two books. They have a similar sense of fun and pace, but DMC is aimed more at readers my age (meaning people getting old enough where they're having trouble reading again).
9) Moneypenny Diaries: I've only read the first book so far. DMC is better. She's doing an admirable job, though.
10) But excluding novelizations: I'll answer, anyway. None are as good as DMC; Most of them are horrible, but I kind of like LTK. I thought it was more faithful to Fleming than Gardner's own books (especially the later ones). TSWLM and MR were better than the movies, but not as good as DMC.



#63 Simon

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 11:49 AM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought?
No
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought?
No
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read?
No
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books?
No
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books?
No - perhaps par
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun?
No
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography?
Cannot remember sufficiently

#64 manfromjapan

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 09:54 PM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought? NO
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought? NO
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read? NO
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books? YES
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books? YES
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun? NO
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography? NO

*including Young Bond, Moneypenny Diaries, Benson, Gardner, Pearson, Amis etc but excluding novelizations

#65 OHMSS Spion

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 11:37 PM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought?

Nope. Read Goldfinger & Dr. No when I first got into Bond. Though the first novel I purchased was Casino Royale

2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought? No.

Nope. First one I bought was James Bond: The Authorised Biography.

3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read?

Nope. I've read all the Young Bonds besides Hurricane Gold, the first two Moneypenny Diaries, most of the Gardeners, all of the Bensons, the authorized biography, & Colonel Sun.


4) Is DMC better than the Benson books?

I actually liked Never Dream of Dying better than DMC. It's close for some of the other ones though.

5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books?

Yea, I think so. The Gardner books actually didn't strike that much of a chord with me, beyond Licence Renewed.

6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun?

I actually wasn't that fond of Colonel Sun either. So yes, I think DMC is better

7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography?

Gotta say, I really loved the authorized biography. So no, I don't think it is better than DMC.

#66 MarkA

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 12:11 AM

Well, I'm going to drive you guys nuts now, but I think DMC is going to actually boost an appreciation of Benson. DMC has shown that it's no small trick concocting a new James Bond story, even if your name is Sebastian Faulks. Setting aside style comparisons, I think many of Benson's books are superior in overall conception, particularly HTTK, which I think is a brilliant mix of traditional Bond adventure and original mountaineering thriller. It's possible HTTK might be the best conceived Bond continuation of them all.

But though I agree that some of Benson's books have better plots, I still can't get my head round the bad writing. His english is so bad, he writes sex scenes like a smutty teenager. I get none of that from Amis, Gardner, Higson, Faulks etc. Despite my reservations about the other continuation novels they all seem professional writers. Benson always did, and always will seem to me the fanboy that got lucky. Then got found out. It doesn't matter that Dan Brown, Jeffrey Archer, Tom Clancy are bad (and yes I tried to read the Da Vinci Code and it was terrible) that still doesn't excuse Benson. Lets just be glad they never wrote a Bond novel. Funny enough if Dan Brown had written a Bond novel it would have a climax about every three pages, which is about the length of his average chapter, and consist of about 60 Chapters. Perhaps someone could write a spoof writing as Dan Brown, writing as Ian Fleming.

#67 Four Aces

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 01:57 AM

I have read all of the Fleming Bond novels. DMC is my first non-Fleming Bond novel. I'm near the end now, it's been okay, and I would probably buy another one, however, it's just not even close to Fleming.

4A

#68 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:20 AM

On a vacation trip to Canada, I decided to get into the Devil May Care spirit, and ordered not only that book, but Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service as well (Yes! Up until now, I was a Fleming virgin!). :tup:

I read portions of CR and OHMSS every night at the hotel, and I really came to appreciate what Fleming had acheived in creating Bond. I then moved on to DMC... only to be uneased by the first chapter and a half. Dissuaded for then, I decided not to pick it up again until the long drive home... at which point, I came to one horrifying conclusion:

Devil May Care is crap. :D

Oh, certainly, the book has its numerous bright spots: The plot picked up during the Persian sections, and I appreciated enormously the minor characters in this novel. I relished the ally that Darius provided, delighted in the colourful strokes with which the author painted the Iranian populace, and I thought the way Faulks wrote Felix Leiter, as well as his slimy successor, J.D. Silver, probably would've made Fleming proud.

Unfortunately, while reading, I began to get the feeling that the book's tone felt far too modern; surely, Faulks should have known he'd be writing as Ian Fleming. I also felt oddly uninterested, and even infuriated, by the actions the major characters took, as it almost felt like an idiot plot. Then, I realized:

It was an idiot plot. :)

Let's face it, folks: The villains are pale reflections of Fleming's creations, more or less inspired by the films. Julius Gorner's ridiculous obsession with becoming English so he can destroy it begs comparison to Gustave Graves of Die Another Day, and his pathetically unrewarding death brings to mind another Dr. Julius: Surely you remember Dr. No, folks?

Chagrin, the evil Vietnamese sidekick to Gorner, is nothing so much than a reupholstered Oddjob, and his final defeat on the train reeks of the Orient Express fight from The Spy Who Loved Me; in fact, the whole villainous plot is pretty much DAD meets TSWLM in the middle of the frackin' desert.

Even M and Miss Moneypenny feel like their film incarnations: M's loyal secretary goes on an extended banter session with Bond over Italian chocolates, and M is now a devoted practitioner of yoga! So much for his staunch opinions on "the beatnik problem" (from OHMSS), I suppose...

What's more, the main heroine, one Scarlett Papava, is distinctly rendolent of that feared fan-fiction cliché, the Mary-Sue: She waltzes into Bond's life, committing various schemes and misdemeanors against him, and in the end he goes gaga over her? As I reached the portion where she laid out how she had lied to him in Rome, I thought for sure that Bond was going to beat her and throw her out of his room; instead, we get this unlikely passage:

"Now that he'd recovered his composure, Bond felt an overpowering curiousity, tinged with admiration."
--Devil May Care, pg. 41

No, Mr. Faulks, real secret agents do no act in that way; at least, not in Fleming's world, anyway.

On the other hand, they do fall for random dames the author has set up in such universes in the odious realm of fan-fiction. Certainly, you can say that Fleming himself set up such a scheme with Tracy in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but at least he gave the character an arc, unlike Faulks' Papava (which sounds rather like the name of a bizarre tropical fruit).

Papava is a nuisance to the story time and time again; without her, the book actually moves with a sort of lithe grace, especially in the scenes where Bond is getting aclimated in Persia, but when she stumbles back in, the novel grinds to a screeching halt as Faulks attempts to force the reader into accepting this unholy concoction as a genuine Bond girl. Unfortunately for the reader, Scarlett sticks around for the entire climax of the novel, rendering it impotent.

At its very end, when the scales are lifted from 007's eyes, I half-expected him to resign from the Service due to M's deception and personally strangle the life out of Scarlett Papava; sadly, by that time I knew that I could expect no sign of the old Bond in Faulks' work.

You see, that had been troubling me the entire time: The apparent disconnect between Fleming's Bond and Faulks' Bond. Considering Faulks was supposed to be writing as Fleming (some have gone so far as to detect certain Fleming-esque passages in an earlier book of his, A Fool's Alphabet), there should have been no discontinuity, but then, how to explain this excerpt?

"He asked the taxi drive to take him to the place where they did the best bouillabaisse[...]"
--Devil May Care, pg. 15

Especially when compared to this excerpt:

"Bond said, 'Now tell me, is the bouillabaisse chez Guido always good?'

'It is passable,' said Marius. 'But this is a dish that is dead, gone. There is no more true bouillabaisse'[...]"
--On Her Majesty's Secret Service, pg. 218

Or this passage:

"Universal... He was secretly pleased that after various experiments the Service had reverted to its old cover name. No other word had such curious power over him."
--Devil May Care, pg. 23

Compared to this one:

"As cover, solid cover, Universal was 'brûlé' with the pros. All the secret services in the world had penetrated it by now."
--On Her Majesty's Secret Service, pg. 144


Indeed, I could not clearly picture Fleming's Bond when reading Faulks' novel, instead envisioning the cuddly, bearded visage of the author himself -- or, in the case of certain horrid sentences, Pierce Brosnan! :tup:

To summon up my point, it appears that Faulks has not ressurrected Bond, but merely acted as an iconoclast towards the character, viewing him as old and stale. Indeed, in a recent Guardian article about the novel, Faulks was quoted as saying that

“Bond doesn't have an inner life. There would be moments when I'd think, we need to gather our thoughts here and have a breather, where in another novel you'd slow the pace, have some description and see what Bond feels about this, but Bond doesn't reflect; all you can do is move on to the next bomb or shark or car.”

Unfortunately for Faulks, this completely goes against the introspective nature of Fleming's Bond. Through Fleming’s use of free indirect discourse, Bond muses on all manner of subjects, which thus reveals Faulks as believing that Fleming’s intricately-crafted thrillers are fully beneath him. Thankfully, we know this to be not the case, but there is still one stodgy conclusion to be drawn from all this:

Devil May Care is crap. :D

I bid you good-day. :(

#69 Jim

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:36 AM

Well, I'm going to drive you guys nuts now, but I think DMC is going to actually boost an appreciation of Benson. DMC has shown that it's no small trick concocting a new James Bond story, even if your name is Sebastian Faulks. Setting aside style comparisons, I think many of Benson's books are superior in overall conception, particularly HTTK, which I think is a brilliant mix of traditional Bond adventure and original mountaineering thriller. It's possible HTTK might be the best conceived Bond continuation of them all.


Possible. But not very probable.

I'm not convinced that you can set aside the style comparisons; setting their style aside, Fleming's books are pretty weak as thrillers. The plots are pretty dire. Style is about all they have.

Mr Benson had the ideas - some splendid ideas - but the execution was shocking. Without wishing to appear too glib, with Mr Faulks it's the other way around. Style without substance.

Perhaps that's what "writing as Ian Fleming" means, after all.

Aren't some of the Bensons being re-released soon? Perhaps the effect of Devil May Care may be seen in how they sell. They now have as good a chance as they ever had of making an impression, given the current success of the written Bond. Bit of a double-edger, though - if they sell, it'll be riding on the success of Devil May Care. If they don't sell, it'll be because they're not very good.

Impossible job.

#70 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 02:16 PM

Well, I'm going to drive you guys nuts now, but I think DMC is going to actually boost an appreciation of Benson. DMC has shown that it's no small trick concocting a new James Bond story, even if your name is Sebastian Faulks. Setting aside style comparisons, I think many of Benson's books are superior in overall conception, particularly HTTK, which I think is a brilliant mix of traditional Bond adventure and original mountaineering thriller. It's possible HTTK might be the best conceived Bond continuation of them all.


Possible. But not very probable.

I'm not convinced that you can set aside the style comparisons; setting their style aside, Fleming's books are pretty weak as thrillers. The plots are pretty dire. Style is about all they have.

Mr Benson had the ideas - some splendid ideas - but the execution was shocking. Without wishing to appear too glib, with Mr Faulks it's the other way around. Style without substance.

Perhaps that's what "writing as Ian Fleming" means, after all.

Aren't some of the Bensons being re-released soon? Perhaps the effect of Devil May Care may be seen in how they sell. They now have as good a chance as they ever had of making an impression, given the current success of the written Bond. Bit of a double-edger, though - if they sell, it'll be riding on the success of Devil May Care. If they don't sell, it'll be because they're not very good.

Impossible job.


I don't think that the Benson re-release is going to sell if for no other reason than the fact that it's not being hyped up as the next big literary event like DMC was. I had actually forgotten than the novels were being republished, and still have no idea when they're going to be on shelves, whereas we had nearly endless promotion for DMC. I'll definitely be getting Benson's "Union Trilogy", mostly because I feel that those novels represent a better celebration of Fleming's centenary year than the awful Devil May Care.

Also, Mr. Blofeld, a wonderful review of Devil May Care, and a well researched one as well, which really helps drive home the fact of how "un-Fleming" a book "written as Ian Fleming" turned out to be.

#71 ACE

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 03:06 PM

... I agree that some of Benson's books have better plots...



... Mr Benson had the ideas - some splendid ideas - ...


Redeeming features!

Were these enough to keep you reading/listening to the Benson books?
I'm interested that you continued with the Benson novels despite your views on the writing.

#72 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 03:44 PM

I get the feeling that the posters here complaining that DMC isn't like Fleming are the same ones who claim the film CR is one of the more faithful adaptations of Fleming... Which is pretty hilarious, when you think about it.

#73 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 03:48 PM

I get the feeling that the posters here complaining that DMC isn't like Fleming are the same ones who claim the film CR is one of the more faithful adaptations of Fleming... Which is pretty hilarious, when you think about it.


I can't speak for the rest of the posters who have criticized DMC in this way, but I know that I don't find CASINO ROYALE to be anything close to a faithful adaptation of the novel. Fleming's novel is infinitely superior to EON's CASINO ROYALE, and the film is really just a generic Bond film that features a set piece or two from the novel, but is really just CASINO ROYALE in name only.

As for DMC, the biggest way in which I find it to be "un-Fleming" is in how much effort it takes to read. With even the lesser of the Fleming novels, I enjoy reading them because they keep me wanting to turn the page to find out what happens. With DMC, every page is a struggle because, after 100+ pages of boredom, I know that there's nothing compelling waiting for me on the next page.

Edited by tdalton, 28 June 2008 - 04:01 PM.


#74 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:01 PM

Really? I think it's one of the best films of the series.

#75 Loomis

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:04 PM

Mr Benson had the ideas - some splendid ideas - but the execution was shocking. Without wishing to appear too glib, with Mr Faulks it's the other way around. Style without substance.


If "Mr" Faulks had indeed delivered style without substance, I'd be as happy as a clam, for his prose can be beautiful and a real pleasure to read. So I'd be more than willing to settle for a DEVIL MAY CARE that was insubstantial fluff, albeit wonderfully well-written insubstantial fluff.

Alas, the "style" that Faulks shows in DMC is not his usual spellbinding way with words, but the perfunctory, join-the-dots, keepin' everything real simple style (if you can call it that) of a novelisation writer. And so I'd say that DMC boasts neither substance nor - in any meaningful or interesting sense - style.

If it were the exact same novel - same characters, same locations, same plot, same "twists", and so on - but penned to the high standard that we know Faulks is stunningly capable of, I'd gladly welcome DMC into the fold. But I really don't see that his prose in DMC is any better than that of Benson at his best.

#76 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:04 PM

Really? I think it's one of the best films of the series.


It is one of the better ones, but that is, for me, solely because of the performances of Eva Green and Daniel Craig. Take those actors out of the film and replace them with anyone else, I'm not compelled in any way to watch it, and would probably find many of the lesser films in the franchise much more entertaining than CASINO ROYALE. For me, it's a very generic Bond film that luckily got two of the best performances out of any film that year from Eva Green and Daniel Craig.

I'd say that CASINO ROYALE is about as faithful to Fleming as DMC is. They both reference things that Fleming put down on the page, but in style and quality of substance (and in the case of EON's CR, plotline as well) they're nowhere close and do not measure up at all.

Edited by tdalton, 28 June 2008 - 04:12 PM.


#77 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:16 PM

It is one of the better ones, but that is, for me, solely because of the performances of Eva Green and Daniel Craig. Take those actors out of the film and replace them with anyone else, I'm not compelled in any way to watch it, and would probably find many of the lesser films in the franchise much more entertaining than CASINO ROYALE. For me, it's a very generic Bond film that luckily got two of the best performances out of any film that year from Eva Green and Daniel Craig.

I'd say that CASINO ROYALE is about as faithful to Fleming as DMC is. They both reference things that Fleming put down on the page, but in style and quality of substance (and in the case of EON's CR, plotline as well) they're nowhere close and do not measure up at all.


You realize that the plot to book CR is ludicrous, right? I'd say that's the weakest aspect of the novel.

I'd also say that the character of Vesper is much more interesting than she was in the book. The villains, too. I was pretty impressed by the film.

#78 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:20 PM

It is one of the better ones, but that is, for me, solely because of the performances of Eva Green and Daniel Craig. Take those actors out of the film and replace them with anyone else, I'm not compelled in any way to watch it, and would probably find many of the lesser films in the franchise much more entertaining than CASINO ROYALE. For me, it's a very generic Bond film that luckily got two of the best performances out of any film that year from Eva Green and Daniel Craig.

I'd say that CASINO ROYALE is about as faithful to Fleming as DMC is. They both reference things that Fleming put down on the page, but in style and quality of substance (and in the case of EON's CR, plotline as well) they're nowhere close and do not measure up at all.


You realize that the plot to book CR is ludicrous, right?

I'd also say that the character of Vesper is much more interesting than it was in the book. The villains, too. I was pretty impressed by the film.


I don't find it any more ludicrous than the plot of EON's version.

Vesper is much more interesting in the film, but only because of Eva Green's exceptional performance (IMO, the definitive Bond girl performance, and I can't imagine anyone turning in a better performance in a future Bond film than what we got with Daniel Craig and Eva Green).

#79 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:27 PM

I don't find it any more ludicrous than the plot of EON's version.

Vesper is much more interesting in the film, but only because of Eva Green's exceptional performance (IMO, the definitive Bond girl performance, and I can't imagine anyone turning in a better performance in a future Bond film than what we got with Daniel Craig and Eva Green).


Really? The writing and direction had nothing to do with that? Boy, you ARE perceptive...

The book and movie both contain the same idiot plot where they could just offer the doomed man asylum instead of competing in a card game that would give him the funds to save himself, but the book has the added problem that the Russians have to be completely clueless compared to the English and the CIA in order for the game to happen at all. Cold War prejudice, I guess. At least in the film you have a more complicated hierarchy of bad guys, who find out at different times and affect the story (thinking of the stairwell fight, in particular), which also give the Bond/Vesper story stronger beats.

Not that I don't enjoy the book, it's just one of his weaker plots.

#80 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:31 PM

I don't find it any more ludicrous than the plot of EON's version.

Vesper is much more interesting in the film, but only because of Eva Green's exceptional performance (IMO, the definitive Bond girl performance, and I can't imagine anyone turning in a better performance in a future Bond film than what we got with Daniel Craig and Eva Green).


Really? The writing and direction had nothing to do with that? Boy, you ARE perceptive...


They're both given, IMO, some horrendously written dialogue to have to deal with throughout the movie (most notably the "You've stripped it from me" nonsense that they both perform quite well and they both manage to make that dialogue not sound laughable, which it is when it's just written on paper). I've always found the writing in CASINO ROYALE to be amongst the most overrated writing that I've seen in quite a while, and it's a script that is saved by its actors, IMO.

In an effort to get the topic back on topic, in regards to the discussion about Raymond Benson's popularity being boosted because of DMC, I have no doubt that within the fan community that it will happen. I, for one, never had a problem with Benson. Sure, he wasn't the greatest writer out there, but his story ideas and plotlines were all extremely interesting, and I loved how he took risks with some of Fleming's characters, which is more than can be said for other continuation authors. Just from an entertainment perspective, I would rank him second, behind only Fleming, in terms of the best continuation authors.

Edited by tdalton, 28 June 2008 - 04:46 PM.


#81 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:49 PM

They're both given, IMO, some horrendously written dialogue to have to deal with throughout the movie (most notably the "You've stripped it from me" nonsense that they both perform quite well and they both manage to make that dialogue not sound laughable, which it is when it's just written on paper). I've always found the writing in CASINO ROYALE to be amongst the most overrated writing that I've seen in quite a while, and it's a script that is saved by its actors, IMO.


I'm going to have to call "BS" now.

First off, why do you think the actors were interpreting the dialogue differently than the writer, when he wrote it? Do you feel that they got it, but he didn't? Or do you feel that it only worked for those actors, and nobody else??? They must be the greatest actors in film history! Imagine -- give them any bad line of dialogue and they make it work!

Secondly, have you ever tried to read the speeches in Fleming's books out loud?

#82 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:56 PM

give them any bad line of dialogue and they make it work!


I didn't say give them any bad line and they make it work. Daniel Craig has turned in some poor performances in the past, one of which being his Bond "audition" Layer Cake, which was a bad film all the way around. I'm not familiar with Eva Green's work outside of Casino Royale, so I can't name a bad performance from her, but I'm sure she's just as capable of that as the next actor.

I'm just saying that some of the dialogue works better because of the chemistry the two seem to have on screen. Some actors are able to elevate material and some aren't, and in this case Green and Craig were able to make some bad dialogue passable. It's not the greatest scene in Bond history (far from it actually), and I'm not trying to make it out to be.

I would also point out that there are other scenes where neither one of them are able to make the writing better. The introductory train scene in the middle of the film is terrible, and the actors don't appear to connect to each other in any way whatsoever, and often times look as though they're reading cue cards located directly behind each other.

#83 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:58 PM

Wow.

Yes, it's sad the film was such a miserable failure. DMC, too. Thanks for setting the world straight.

#84 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:01 PM

Wow.

Yes, it's sad the film was such a miserable failure. DMC, too. Thanks for setting the world straight.


I didn't say that the film was a miserable failure (I did say that about DMC, however, and I stand by that). I just thought that it was overrated. It's still better than a lot of the Bond films. But, that's just my opinion and I didn't try to pass it off as anything other than that, and if it appeared that way, then I offer my sincere apologies.

:tup:

#85 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:13 PM

I'll never quite understand why people watching wonderfully arch storytelling in which a guy wins a hundred million dollars at cards, survives a car crash with his Aston Martin flipping 8 times at a hundred miles an hour, get his balls whacked with a ten pound ball of rope for an hour, then wakes up to the sight of the most beautiful accountant who ever existed on the shoreline of a European mansion, feel that the dialogue should suddenly be more realistic. "That would NEVER happen!!!"

Loved that scene. Loved the train scene. Enjoyed the movie. Enjoyed DMC a great deal, too.

#86 tdalton

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:20 PM

I'll never quite understand why people watching wonderfully arch storytelling in which a guy wins millions of dollars at cards, survives a car crash with his Aston Martin flipping 8 times at a hundred miles an hour, get his balls whacked with a ten pound ball of rope for an hour, then wakes up to the sight of the most beautiful accountant who ever existed on the shoreline of a European mansion, feel that the dialogue should suddenly be more realistic. "That would NEVER happen!!!"

Love that scene. Love the train scene. Enjoyed the movie. Enjoyed DMC a great deal, too.


You're right, most of what happens in CASINO ROYALE would never happen, and a lot of that is what I have issue with the film over, in addition to the dialogue. The car flipping 8 times is a problem that I have. In the novel, I believe it was just a nailstrip that was dropped in front of Bond which blew out his tires. I've said over and over again that the action and storyline in CASINO ROYALE were a bit over the top in addition to the dialogue, and there are countless things wrong with CASINO ROYALE besides the dialogue, that was just one aspect of the film that I chose to highlight because of the fact that acting was what was being discussed here, of which speaking dialogue is a major part. But, you're right, the storyline of the film (and the novel) is ludicrous (Le Chiffre should have just been offered asylum from the beginning) and the action is way over-the-top.

#87 Dr. Noah

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:36 PM

I guess my argument is that I don't see anything wrong with it. It's the old Moss Hart thing: "What's so wrong with good melodrama?" If I didn't enjoy that stuff I certainly wouldn't be a Bond fan.

I think my single favorite line of dialogue ever comes from book LALD (and the film FYEO): Two people are stripped naked on a boat, bound together by rope, and are about to be dragged through shark-filled waters, and one says: "I didn't want it to be like this." (Film version: the even funnier "I never thought it would end like this.")

Corny? Incredibly. Intentional? Definitely. And perfectly in tune with the over-the-top action, outlandish villain, and outrageous storyline... and really fun.

#88 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 07:08 PM

I didn't say that the film was a miserable failure (I did say that about DMC, however, and I stand by that). I just thought that it was overrated. It's still better than a lot of the Bond films.

Even though it's practically the deformed love-child of them? :tup:

#89 Joyce Carrington

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 01:58 PM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought? NO
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought? NO
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read? NO
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books? NO
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books? NO
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun? NO
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography? Never read it.

#90 trevor

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 07:42 PM

1) Is this the first original James Bond novel you have bought?
no, for your eyes only in the 80's
2) Is this the first original James Bond continuation novel you have bought?
no, win lose or die around that same time as above
3) Is this the only continuation Bond novel you have read?
no, i have read most of them (probably half honestly)
4) Is DMC better than the Benson books?
no, benson's orignals were killer
5) Is DMC better than the Gardner books?
hard to say, some of gardners were excellent and some are kind of lame
6) Is DMC better than Colonel Sun?
it's a toss up. i think they both are about the same
7) Is DMC better than James Bond: The Authorised Biography?
have not read it