26 replies to this topic

[wattenscheid09]

Reading Devil May Care has openend my eyes even more for HOW GOOD Colonel Sun ist. Do you realise we now have two different contenders for the "follow up after Fleming's MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN"-competition? Amis and Faulks run side by side. Having finished DMC I directly re-begun CS. Wow. Two differend worlds really. Comparing Amis's Bond to Faulks' Bond.. they don't even play in the same league. A straight-forward urgent narrative with an attractive female lead and good old-fashioned spy work in a well-described new surrounding... need I say more? It also made even clearer how badly written DMC is.

Then, of course, Amis has the advantage of writing in the sixties. But he's really a superb writer, the little details like describing the first glimpses of a sunrise in the Aegaeis...

I can only invite all CBN members to take Colonel Sun to hand in order to get the Devil May Care taste from your mouths.

[MarkA]

I think the big problem with this is as well as being a superb writer Kingsley Amis was a fan and wrote the book because HE WANTED TO. I get the feeling that Faulks heart was never really in this. That is the trouble with commissioning someone. He may tick all the boxes, but Faulks is simply not a thriller writer. The plotting is extremely flabby with none of that sense of bizarre phrasing and plotting that Fleming has.

[David Schofield]

I think the big problem with this is as well as being a superb writer Kingsley Amis was a fan and wrote the book because HE WANTED TO. I get the feeling that Faulks heart was never really in this. That is the trouble with commissioning someone. He may tick all the boxes, but Faulks is simply not a thriller writer. The plotting is extremely flabby with none of that sense of bizarre phrasing and plotting that Fleming has.

While I certainly agree on much of this, I take exception to the suggestion that Faualks plotting - while bad - is much worse than Amis.

On re-reading CS prior to DMC, it became clear that Amis' obvious plot flaw is Bond's failure to instantly call for help and launch an attack on Sun's HQ as soon as Ariadne tells him where he is. This is the head of MI6 who has been kidnapped; he is loaded with secrets. And yet Bond goes for a nice Aegean cruise, interupted by some contrived interventions, before finding reason for lauching essentially a one man attack!

I agree Amis in every other way is superior to Faulks, but not necessarily in plotting. Licence Renewed, on the other hand, out does both, plotwise....

[sharpshooter]

Having read DMC, Colonel Sun is the superior novel of the two.

[Trident]

I agree Amis in every other way is superior to Faulks, but not necessarily in plotting. Licence Renewed, on the other hand, out does both, plotwise....

But LR's plot has that exact same fault CS has. It's just a little bit better hidden behind a spectacular car/helicopter/Nitefinder-chase. Once
Bond has an idea about Murik's plans he could contact SIS via a small transmitter hidden inside his suitcase. The sensible thing to do would have been to call for help and wait inside the castle for the cavalry. Instead, Bond chooses first to get clear of the castle and call in support once he has made his escape. Serves him well to ruin his Saab in a watering excavation and get a little 'high-and-dry'-treatment afterwards.

Edited by Trident, 02 June 2008 - 10:55 AM.

[David Schofield]

I agree Amis in every other way is superior to Faulks, but not necessarily in plotting. Licence Renewed, on the other hand, out does both, plotwise....

But LR's plot has that exact same fault CS has. It's just a little bit better hidden behind a spectacular car/helicopter/Nitefinder-chase. Once
Bond has an idea about Murik's plans he could contact SIS via a small transmitter hidden inside his suitcase. The sensible thing to do would have been to call for help and wait inside the castle for the cavalry. Instead, Bond chooses first to get clear of the castle and call in support once he has made his escape. Serves him well to ruin his Saab in a watering excavation and get a little 'high-and-dry'-treatment afterwards.

Good point. Its odd, I haven't read Licence Renewed for such a long time that it had slipped my mind, I guess; but having not read CS and only coming back to that recently, I was amazed at how "holy" Amis' plot actually was.

But hey, perhaps Bond's reason for not using the transmitter in LR is the same as in CS - he doesn't trust Q Branch gadgets, and maybe like the CS homing device, he didn't trust it to work to bring the cavalry.

It is, after all, the same character.

[Trident]

But hey, perhaps Bond's reason for not using the transmitter in LR is the same as in CS - he doesn't trust Q Branch gadgets, and maybe like the CS homing device, he didn't trust it to work to bring the cavalry.

It is, after all, the same character.

That's a very essential statement. With 'Colonel Sun' I had no real difficulty to see Amis' Bond as Fleming's. Some minor quirks, but nothing really kept me from temporarily suspending my disbelive.

With a little more effort I can do the same with 'Lincense Renewed'. It's harder (especially as the years go by and Fleming's impact seems to grow even stronger whereas that of his several successors seems to dwindle away with the care of time) but it's still manageable.

Unfortunately, I have to confess that with Faulks' Bond I entirely fail to do so. I feel seriously let down.

[David Schofield]

Unfortunately, I have to confess that with Faulks' Bond I entirely fail to do so. I feel seriously let down.

Sadly, I agree 100%.

Indeed, I am not sure whether to put it on the shelf between CS and Wood's Spy, or after Benson's DAD

[Mr. Blofeld]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable, or Geoffrey Jenkins' still-unreleased Per Fine Ounce: That makes four.

[ACE]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

[Mr. Blofeld]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

[Trident]

Unfortunately, I have to confess that with Faulks' Bond I entirely fail to do so. I feel seriously let down.

Sadly, I agree 100%.

Indeed, I am not sure whether to put it on the shelf between CS and Wood's Spy, or after Benson's DAD

At the moment I cannot even give a definite verdict on the whole affair, as I find myself unable to finish it. The 150-or-so pages I've read so far seem to me so utterly bug-infested that I really have the severest difficulties to bring myself to continue. And, worst of all and unheard of up to now, I find myself not caring for it any more.

What I have dreaded when reading the first excerpts, a mixture of horribly contrieved references and generic best-of-Bond-scenes barely avoiding to slip into utter boredom, seems to run through the book like a red fathom. The ill-concealed, uninspired and downright desperate attempts to date the book would have been better replaced had Faulks written across every second page 'THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE 1967!!!' In terms of discretion it would have had about the same impact.

What I have desperately hoped for to make this read worthwhile, Faulks sophisticated style, his unique way with words and really almost mesmerizing (IMHO) gift to take his readers into his tale and keep them there, these fine qualities are almost totally absent in the part I've read. If I had read 'Devil May Care' before any other work of Faulks, I highly doubt I'd have given this author a second chance. Truly a shame considering that this man is really, really gifted and capable of a stunning quality. But this is also the reason I feel only all the more let down by this book.

I can really only speculate how this disaster (and im my view it really is a disaster) could have happened. The most fitting explanation is probably that Faulks didn't really consider this as anything serious and decided on a lucrative but undemanding go at what he considered 'pulp'. But even pulp does need serious work. Maybe even all the more so to get audiences to trust a guy whose tale they'd laugh at once it's over. The trick is to keep them from laughing while the yarn is spun.

It's bloody hard work and even the most gifted author better keeps from sniffing upon it until the day he can do it himself.

Sorry, I got taken away bit there. But there is irony for you. DMC will probably be a remarkable success profit-wise.

Edited by Trident, 02 June 2008 - 01:16 PM.

[ACE]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory! Thanks Mr Blofeld.

[David Schofield]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory!

Well, one should instantly smell a rat.

As any cricket-lover knows, the Australians did not play in England in 1936

[Trident]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory!

Well, one should instantly smell a rat.

As any cricket-lover knows, the Australians did not play in England in 1936

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

[ACE]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory!

Well, one should instantly smell a rat.

As any cricket-lover knows, the Australians did not play in England in 1936

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

Of course it's fanfic! Poor quality at that. But the set up is good and funny and inventive. Top marks to Icepheonix, as usual.

[Trident]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory!

Well, one should instantly smell a rat.

As any cricket-lover knows, the Australians did not play in England in 1936

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

Of course it's fanfic! Poor quality at that. But the set up is good and funny and inventive. Top marks to Icepheonix, as usual.

Now that we mentioned fanfic:

There is one piece I'm currently reading and it really made my day when the supposed 'Literary Event Of The Year' was such a disappointment for me. It's Hitch's really brilliant 'To Whom It May Condemn' and I simply cannot praise this fine piece enough. I'm only a little more than halfway through its 110 pages, but it already has given me far more than I or anybody else would have bargained for in 'mere' fanfic. Absolutely fabulous work so far and I intend to praise it deservedly once I'm through.

[Mr. Blofeld]

You seem to be forgetting Donald Twain's excellent Count Diable

Pray tell, Mr Blofeld, what is this Count Diable that you speak so fondly of? Couldst thou direct one to such a work?

Here, my dear.

Hahaha. The hoary old chestnut. Nice job on the fanfic backstory!

Well, one should instantly smell a rat.

As any cricket-lover knows, the Australians did not play in England in 1936

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

Of course it's fanfic! Poor quality at that. But the set up is good and funny and inventive. Top marks to Icepheonix, as usual.

So, it was fanfic?

.

Edited by Righty007, 03 June 2008 - 02:58 AM.
Please don't skirt the auto-censor. Thanks.

[Byron]

Having read DMC, Colonel Sun is the superior novel of the two.

Strongly agreed. As far as i am concerned CS is the "real deal" continuation novel.

Not sure if i am correct but a DMC reference along the lines of "the last 18 months were uneventful" seems to indicate that Faulks/IFP have skimmed over/ignored CS like it never existed.

[Dr. Noah]

I think it's really fun to compare the two post-MWTGG takes.

The fan fiction looks pretty good, too!

[Kronsteen]

Reading Devil May Care has openend my eyes even more for HOW GOOD Colonel Sun ist. Do you realise we now have two different contenders for the "follow up after Fleming's MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN"-competition? Amis and Faulks run side by side. Having finished DMC I directly re-begun CS. Wow. Two differend worlds really. Comparing Amis's Bond to Faulks' Bond.. they don't even play in the same league. A straight-forward urgent narrative with an attractive female lead and good old-fashioned spy work in a well-described new surrounding... need I say more? It also made even clearer how badly written DMC is.

Then, of course, Amis has the advantage of writing in the sixties. But he's really a superb writer, the little details like describing the first glimpses of a sunrise in the Aegaeis...

I can only invite all CBN members to take Colonel Sun to hand in order to get the Devil May Care taste from your mouths.

I totally agree! I re-read Colonel Sun after finishing Devil May Care and got the same feeling. Colonel Sun is written with so much more interest and detail, it really is a wonderful book. Devil May Care on the other hand seems rushed and rough in comparison. Sure, it somtimes really feels and looks like a Bond novel, but Kingsley Amis is miles ahead when it comes to story and characters, and that's why Colonel Sun feels much more like a Fleming novel.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy Devil May Care, I often did, but Colonel Sun is something extra-ordinary. Read it again and you'll see.

[Loomis]

Having read DMC, Colonel Sun is the superior novel of the two.

Strongly agreed. As far as i am concerned CS is the "real deal" continuation novel.

Not sure if i am correct but a DMC reference along the lines of "the last 18 months were uneventful" seems to indicate that Faulks/IFP have skimmed over/ignored CS like it never existed.

I guess it reflects the IFP New World Order: you've got the Flemings, and then you've got the Young Bond books as prequels, the MONEYPENNY DIARIES as spinoffs, and now DEVIL MAY CARE as the first proper sequel to Fleming. The other continuation novelists don't exist - they've been airbrushed out of history.

As the man said, I would laugh if my heart was not so heavy about my poor Lisl.

Anyway, COLONEL SUN is infinitely superior to DEVIL MAY CARE. Its Bond is dynamic and heroic. Its villain is bizarre and loathsome. Its women are alluring. Its minor characters are memorable. Its locations are brought to life superbly. Its action scenes are pulse-pounding. Its prose is superb. Everything Faulks gets so terribly wrong Amis knocks outta the park.

As you say, Byron, it's the real deal.

[spynovelfan]

Anyway, COLONEL SUN is infinitely superior to DEVIL MAY CARE. Its Bond is dynamic and heroic. Its villain is bizarre and loathsome. Its women are alluring. Its minor characters are memorable. Its locations are brought to life superbly. Its action scenes are pulse-pounding. Its prose is superb. Everything Faulks gets so terribly wrong Amis knocks outta the park.

I agree with you about COLONEL SUN's locations, villain, and possibly the female lead (what other women are there?). Also the prose, largely (although there are some very dully written parts). But I think its flaws are precisely that Bond is not dynamic and the action isn't pulse-pounding at all (other than the opening and ending). M is kidnapped - but Bond doesn't seem too bothered, does he?

That said, it is indeed infinitely superior to Faulks' effort. But then, the Jason Love adventure from 1967 I was reading last night (largely set in Tehran - PASSPORT TO OBLIVION) is infinitely superior to both of them. The character isn't called Bond - but it's still a much better Bond novel than either of these two.

[Scrambled Eggs]

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

So, it was fanfic?

.

Erm, sorry about that chaps.

[Trident]

So it really is fanfic? I was a little bit wondering about the single-malt in a time when single-malts were not regarded as highly as today. But I've, up to now, only read the first 15 pages. I couldn't really detect a false hare within these, although I've never heard about Donald Twain.

So, it was fanfic?

.

Erm, sorry about that chaps.

Oh, no, never mind.

Don't bother to apologize. At least not before Faulks does so too. After all, he didn't even deliver proper fanfic.

[Loomis]

Anyway, COLONEL SUN is infinitely superior to DEVIL MAY CARE. Its Bond is dynamic and heroic. Its villain is bizarre and loathsome. Its women are alluring. Its minor characters are memorable. Its locations are brought to life superbly. Its action scenes are pulse-pounding. Its prose is superb. Everything Faulks gets so terribly wrong Amis knocks outta the park.

I agree with you about COLONEL SUN's locations, villain, and possibly the female lead (what other women are there?).

Doni and Luisa. Small roles, admittedly, but from memory Amis gives them a degree of appeal that Faulks seems barely to attempt with Scarlett.

Also the prose, largely (although there are some very dully written parts).

Granted, but most of the Flemings have their share of dully written parts, no?

But I think its flaws are precisely that Bond is not dynamic and the action isn't pulse-pounding at all (other than the opening and ending).

Well, I'm mainly talking dynamic and pulse-pounding compared to DEVIL MAY CARE, in which Bond is, relatively speaking, an apathetic layabout, and the action makes PATHER PANCHALI look like DIE HARD. That said, though, I do think the torture scene in COLONEL SUN is one of the most edge-of-seat sections in the whole history of 007.

That said, it is indeed infinitely superior to Faulks' effort.

Yep. And DEVIL MAY CARE is also vastly inferior to JAMES BOND: THE AUTHORISED BIOGRAPHY, which I found myself itching to re-read even while reading it for the first time a few weeks ago. (I certainly have my gripes about AUTHORISED, chiefly that I find it unsatisfyingly episodic and uneven.... but, unlike DMC, it has many moments of greatness and of uncanny resemblance to Flemmmmmmmming.)

Now, I'm sure I'll re-read DMC (I hope, but don't really expect, that it'll read better in paperback).... but only as a way of killing time on a journey, or something like that. It isn't a book to really sit down with and savour.

I find it amazing that Faulks has written something so bland and uninteresting. It's Faulks, for the love of Mike, Faulks! Faulks + Bond = what could possibly go wrong? Oh, well.

[Byron]

I find it amazing that Faulks has written something so bland and uninteresting. It's Faulks, for the love of Mike, Faulks! Faulks + Bond = what could possibly go wrong? Oh, well.

Loomis, i'm very glad you also see CS as the real deal continuation novel.

I distinctly remember your passion for and championing of Faulks during the long wait and a lot of it rubbed off on me, especially with your very crafty "faux extract". After that i was thinking "man this guy Faulks can write, DMC is going to be GREAT!".

Well, it seems like most of us were lulled into a false sense of security and were subsequently deeply disappointed. Hopefully QOS and any future novels are not going to go down that path.