25 replies to this topic

[sidspappy]

Indulging in my favorite guilty pleasure last night (no, not THAT one) by watching NSNA and obsessing on every watch I can see. Anyway, I always wondered what that black watch was that Connery wore. I haven't seen an answer yet, so I did the ol' freeze and rewind on the DVD.

I have come to the tentative conclusion that he wore a Porsche Design chronograph (or a similar model, as the same type was sold by several companies), nearly identical to the watch worn by Tom Cruise in Top Gun. You can see the Bond example pretty clearly in the dungeon escape scene. From what I can tell, the watchband was not the standard one that came with the watch, but seems like a cheap third-party example, presumably to incorporate the prop light embedded in the clasp. In fact, you can see the wire that powers the light snaking down from the watchband into Connery's sleeve.

You can see Connery pressing the chronograph pushers to activate the laser. The dial, unique case shape, and PVD black finish all indicate to me that the Porsche Design is what we're seeing.

I'm not up-to-date on period of manufacture, so I can't confirm this is the piece. From what I know, these watches were designed by Porsche, to be sold in their car dealerships. They were manufactured by Orfina, and was powered by the famous Lemania 5100 automatic chronograph movement.

If anyone has further info on this mystery, I'd be very interested to learn about it.

[Simon]

These guys don't know either.

http://home.xnet.com...oviewatch1.html

And of course, nothing tied in at a marketing level, as per the UK Campaign Book.

Actually, for a Bond film starring Sean, the Campaign Book shows that there was very little Corporate acceptance of this Bond film in terms of the experience of tie ins, both immediately before and after Sean's re-entry to the Bond world. Makes you wonder if in fact Sean or the Broccoli's had the power and acceptance afterall.

[Mr. Somerset]

I used to have a black Seiko that looked quite similar to the watch in NSNA. I doubt, though that his was a Seiko. I must admit, I kind of like his watch in this film, and always felt letdown that the GoldenEye Omega had the laser beam. I would've hoped for a more original idea.

[MarcAngeDraco]

Sounds like a question for Deaton... Dell Deaton...

[Dell Deaton]

Indulging in my favorite guilty pleasure last night (no, not THAT one) by watching NSNA and obsessing on every watch I can see. Anyway, I always wondered what that black watch was that Connery wore.... I have come to the tentative conclusion that he wore a Porsche Design chronograph (or a similar model, as the same type was sold by several companies), nearly identical to the watch worn by Tom Cruise in Top Gun. You can see the Bond example pretty clearly in the dungeon escape scene. From what I can tell, the watchband was not the standard one that came with the watch, but seems like a cheap third-party example, presumably to incorporate the prop light embedded in the clasp. In fact, you can see the wire that powers the light snaking down from the watchband into Connery's sleeve....

You know, I saw this Thread and meant to Reply earlier because I admire the search; sorry I missed it before, and I'm glad it's been bumped up again.

I'm currently working on some leads related to the original Ian Fleming novels, along w/ some side stuff on the first Timothy Dalton wristwatch in The Living Daylights pretitle sequence (possibly a Heuer?), that I quite literally just Posted today. So Never Say Never Again isn't yet on my radar.

Next step I'd recommend is to start Posting some screen captures, followed by some reference images. As Simon may have been suggesting in his Reply, there are a lot of Sites out there that cover James Bond watches sorta as a side line, w/out any real depth (or concern?) to the rich range I'm finding that we have here. Short lived are the days, I'm hoping, when folks could simply cut and paste others' guesses and call that research!

Great analysis so far, guys. I'm glad to be a part of CBn, which has emerged as the best of the broad 007 sites when it comes to this important subject. :tup:

[BlackFelix]

Dell, I run into you all over the place. It's not just exclusive to watch shops but the internet too!

In regards to the watch worn in Never Say Never Again, I too have been fascinated with almost every aspect of this film. Not only for the return of Connery, but of the unique set design and overall interputation of the "Bond formula". From my own research this film had little cross-promotional tie-ins when compared to the "offical" purveyors via; Renault with A View to a Kill, and Seiko with Moonraker or even Saab with License Renewed.

Needless to say promotional ties weren't as prominent in 1983 as they are in 2008, however they did exist and especially with Bond films. For whatever reason NSNA didn't have many obvious tie-ins, unless you count the commercial-worthy shot of Absolute brand vodka. One can only speculate why; perhaps there was market loyalty to EON(though unlikely)? or perhaps the production itself didn't feel it nessescary to capitalize on "branding" matters? Almost everything in NSNA has a "made-for-production" feel to it...which is rather odd when one considers Ian Fleming himself was not opposed to sharing what type of shirt or brand of lighter (Dunhill) Bond perfers.

This approach in NSNA is neither good or bad, but definitley frustrating for some fan(atics?) who simply must "get it right" with purchasing Bond-related items....where does one get that motorbike toy?? The watch worn is quite elusive as very few brands are spotted in the end credits. That said I belive it to be a modified Pulsar quartz model. Difficult to see Sean sporting anything but a Rolex, but Japanese quartz movement were the dominant force during the 1980's and their reputation for accuracy would fit Bond! After viewing NSNA I must ask, were these filmakers that clever? Logically speaking of course, the EON James Bond was sporting a Seiko model (Pulsar's umbrella company.) In addition, this Pulsar (I will post photos soon) was only produced in the UK in 1982. That fits the time of production.

All that said, please don't take my word for it because it's not definitve. Dell Deaton is as close as you'll get to the Horse's mouth! When I met Dell he was sporting a nato straped Rolex! So until this can be verified, please treat this as a educated guess.

Edited by BlackFelix, 06 June 2008 - 07:42 PM.

[Dell Deaton]

... I will post photos soon....

Post those images and make your argument(s), my friend!

My current efforts are consumed in researching James Bond Watches of the Ian Fleming novels (w/ some exciting news to come later this year). There's also a lull in Quantum of Solace watch discussion, perhaps due to the Omega focus on the Olympics. So this is a good watch w/ which to press forward in "getting it absolutely right," to paraphrase our shared interest here.

[BlackFelix]

Hmmm...it won't upload the pics. Any Suggestions?

[Dell Deaton]

Hmmm...it won't upload the pics. Any Suggestions?

Sorry you're having "technical difficulties." Check for a PM from me.

[BlackFelix]

Below are a few links that Dell Deaton provided, and should display pics of the Pulsar watch I belive was worn in Never Say Never Again. Unfortunatley the resolution isn't the greatest, as my camera doesn't take great up-close pics.


http://i305.photobuc...001_800x600.jpg

http://i305.photobuc...006_800x600.jpg

http://i305.photobuc...010_800x600.jpg

http://i305.photobuc...011_800x600.jpg

[Dell Deaton]

Let's try it like this--.

Below are a few links that Dell Deaton provided, and should display pics of the Pulsar watch I belive was worn in Never Say Never Again. Unfortunatley the resolution isn't the greatest, as my camera doesn't take great up-close pics.

Okay, now, BlackFelix, what would you have us see here, and how does it relate to identification for the Never Say Never Again watch(es)?

[Dekard77]

HI Dell Deaton, Pls be kind enough to post the pics again. I am dying to know what it is. Been looking for it for sometime. Bought a chase durer pvd but still it doest feel the same. Help me. Thanks. I heard Seiko supplied the watches.

[Dekard77]

Ok so watching NSNA on Blu I did manage snap a few shots of the elusive PVD watch. I believe it could be an Oris. Although my pictures don't do much justice on screen it seemed pretty close.
The surprise here was the small seconds hand located near 6 o'clock. This is not Porsche Design chrono.


Only issue being my file of 3.8mpg can't be uploaded/resized.

[Dekard77]

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Ok so did some more research. It looks like a Buler watch. The only difference is that the middle second hand is missing. Rest of the watch including the full black back cover seems spot on. I know the strap used is different maybe because Buler used a plastic strap. I feel they used a black Seiko digital watch strap.

[Dell Deaton]

Quite literally in the process of doing final checks and packing of display items for "Bond Watches, James Bond Watches" exhibit setup, for pre-opening next Thursday. So nothing like the amount of time I'd like to continue to invest here in a thorough reply.

For now, then: Keep up the good work!

This is a hard question. Lots of guesswork in the past (which is okay as a starting point and can serve to enlist more critical reviews that raise the bar, which you have clearly done here). Don't get discouraged. Follow your own leads. Feel free to try on theories, see if they work, and dismiss them if they don't.

It's a fascinating subject on so many levels. As noted elsewhere on CBn, I've developed contacts directly with the SEIKO personnel who worked with Eon Productions throughout their product placement tenure. Tangent to that, I inquired about the Never Say Never Again, and they told me that they didn't source it.

Beyond this, recall that Thunderball, with all the folks wanting credit along side (if not over) Ian Fleming for that, featured the first gadget watch. But the Never Say Never Again wristwatch is nothing like what was described there, nor how manifest in Thunderball. Supports my contention that that concept (among others) was pure Fleming.

And what of the supposed Sean Connery complaints that technology and gadgets came at the expense of the James Bond character? Surely if any place, here, with the laser watch, he had an opportunity to make this point by relying upon wits over Q-Branch in making good his escape!

Final feedback: Collect a series of screen-captures when making your analysis. Lighting and angles can play tricks; you'd be amazed (as I recently noted regarding the SEIKO SFX003 (M354-5019) Memory-Bank Calendar from Moonraker what you'll find in clarity and sometimes difference in just a few frames.

[Dekard77]

Quite literally in the process of doing final checks and packing of display items for "Bond Watches, James Bond Watches" exhibit setup, for pre-opening next Thursday. So nothing like the amount of time I'd like to continue to invest here in a thorough reply.

For now, then: Keep up the good work!

This is a hard question. Lots of guesswork in the past (which is okay as a starting point and can serve to enlist more critical reviews that raise the bar, which you have clearly done here). Don't get discouraged. Follow your own leads. Feel free to try on theories, see if they work, and dismiss them if they don't.

It's a fascinating subject on so many levels. As noted elsewhere on CBn, I've developed contacts directly with the SEIKO personnel who worked with Eon Productions throughout their product placement tenure. Tangent to that, I inquired about the Never Say Never Again, and they told me that they didn't source it.

Beyond this, recall that Thunderball, with all the folks wanting credit along side (if not over) Ian Fleming for that, featured the first gadget watch. But the Never Say Never Again wristwatch is nothing like what was described there, nor how manifest in Thunderball. Supports my contention that that concept (among others) was pure Fleming.

And what of the supposed Sean Connery complaints that technology and gadgets came at the expense of the James Bond character? Surely if any place, here, with the laser watch, he had an opportunity to make this point by relying upon wits over Q-Branch in making good his escape!

Final feedback: Collect a series of screen-captures when making your analysis. Lighting and angles can play tricks; you'd be amazed (as I recently noted regarding the SEIKO SFX003 (M354-5019) Memory-Bank Calendar from Moonraker what you'll find in clarity and sometimes difference in just a few frames.

Thanks Dell! I appreciate the words of encouragement. I will keep trying. For sure am glad we can rule out the Seiko placement in NSNA. I will keep going through until I can rest comfortably. I do have a few screen caps and from what I can tell its one casing like fiber glass. When the watch is being handed over to Bond the black watch is visible. The real trick here is matching the inside dial. They have a seconds hands near 6 o'clock position which is what's challenging me. Until then I will have to keep searching.

here's a pic of the watch being handed over.
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[Dell Deaton]

Quite literally in the process of doing final checks and packing of display items for "Bond Watches, James Bond Watches" exhibit setup, for pre-opening next Thursday. So nothing like the amount of time I'd like to continue to invest here in a thorough reply.

For now, then: Keep up the good work!

This is a hard question....

Thanks Dell! I appreciate the words of encouragement. I will keep trying. For sure am glad we can rule out the Seiko placement in NSNA. I will keep going through until I can rest comfortably. I do have a few screen caps and from what I can tell its one casing like fiber glass. When the watch is being handed over to Bond the black watch is visible. The real trick here is matching the inside dial. They have a seconds hands near 6 o'clock position which is what's challenging me. Until then I will have to keep searching.

here's a pic of the watch being handed over.
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Ah, yes: Another "handing the watch to Bond" question.

Again to Thunderball, note that when Q hands the Breitling over to 007, it is a subtly different configuration than the field watch seen elsewhere in the film. For example, it's on a different bracelet!

[Dekard77]

Things are much harder than it looks..... must take another look tonight. Thanks again for the sound advice.

[Dell Deaton]

Thought it might be nice to kick this thread up with a publicity photo I recently received from the Warner Brothers archives.

As I wrote on my James Bond Watches Blog post regarding this matter earlier today, the dial is obviously different from what we see in the close-up screen captures.

Quite different.

[Dekard77]

Thought it might be nice to kick this thread up with a publicity photo I recently received from the Warner Brothers archives.

As I wrote on my James Bond Watches Blog post regarding this matter earlier today, the dial is obviously different from what we see in the close-up screen captures.

Quite different.

Dear Dell, thanks again for the superb find. I think the watch is not what Bond wears in NSNA. My head is spinning now more than ever.

[Dell Deaton]

Thought it might be nice to kick this thread up with a publicity photo I recently received from the Warner Brothers archives....

As I wrote on my James Bond Watches Blog post regarding this matter earlier today, the dial is obviously different from what we see in the close-up screen captures.

Quite different.

Dear Dell, thanks again for the superb find. I think the watch is not what Bond wears in NSNA. My head is spinning now more than ever.

Here's a full scan of the publicity photo (from which the image I first posted above is a close-up), which was released at the time of the film by the studies for widespread publication to stir discussion in the film. You know: Like we're doing here.

Okay, so it's clearly a photo of Sean Connery in-character as James Bond for Never Say Never Again. To your point, which is whether or not the watch worn in this photo is "a" watch worn in the film, we do not know. There's no question that studio stills and other images "related" to movies do not always use the same props as were featured "in" those movies.

Still, I'm gonna make a New Year's prediction that it'll play some important role in 2011 for those trying to specifically identify the obviously different model James Bond gadget watch in Never Say Never Again.

[Dekard77]

No doubt that this pic is taken while being in character. I remember seeing another pic with SC in villa with a more revealing shot. Certainly this can't be the watch he wears in the movie as the strap and dial have a distinct look to it.
Some one must have had a lot of fun doing this charade.

There are a few scenes like when Bond sneaks in to Flying Saucer and another inside the sub when he chat to M in the shower room. I shall get my camera and snap away .

[Dell Deaton]

... Some one must have had a lot of fun doing this charade....

Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly here--

Watch is selected for and used in the film. No variability, no alternatives.

Then, during a separate, although not necessarily distant photo shoot to promote the film, someone says, "Hey, Sean, I've got an idea for a real laugh. Let's keep everything else the same for this James Bond image, only we'll switch out your watch. See how long it takes someone to notice.

"What d'ya think?"

[Dekard77]

... Some one must have had a lot of fun doing this charade....

Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly here--

Watch is selected for and used in the film. No variability, no alternatives.

Then, during a separate, although not necessarily distant photo shoot to promote the film, someone says, "Hey, Sean, I've got an idea for a real laugh. Let's keep everything else the same for this James Bond image, only we'll switch out your watch. See how long it takes someone to notice.

"What d'ya think?"

Didn't John Glen do a similar trick featuring Maud Adams in AVTAK? Also Dick Donner with the changing Superman costume behind the blue screen where Supes kit was green and not blue especially towards the end. I used to wonder about that a lot. Later on it was explained due to technical reasons the costume colour had to be changed,
I was looking at NSNA on Blu, noticed the scene where he sneaks into Largo's boat he is clearly wearing a watch with a rubber strap. I will take a few pics. These inconsistencies could've been due to various reasons like reshoots or absent minded prop men.

[Dell Deaton]

... Some one must have had a lot of fun doing this charade....

Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly here--

Watch is selected for and used in the film. No variability, no alternatives.

Then, during a separate, although not necessarily distant photo shoot to promote the film, someone says, "Hey, Sean, I've got an idea for a real laugh. Let's keep everything else the same for this James Bond image, only we'll switch out your watch. See how long it takes someone to notice.

"What d'ya think?"

Didn't John Glen do a similar trick featuring Maud Adams in AVTAK? Also Dick Donner with the changing Superman costume behind the blue screen where Supes kit was green and not blue especially towards the end. I used to wonder about that a lot. Later on it was explained due to technical reasons the costume colour had to be changed,
I was looking at NSNA on Blu, noticed the scene where he sneaks into Largo's boat he is clearly wearing a watch with a rubber strap. I will take a few pics. These inconsistencies could've been due to various reasons like reshoots or absent minded prop men.

It seems like there are a number of different things being discussed here.

1) Maud Adams is an actress who had been cast as two different characters prior to A View to a Kill. Including her or not, and in what context, irrespective of acknowledgment, doesn't seem to parallel the discussion we're having here. So what if she was included? If so, I don't think it would have been to imply that her character hadn't really died in The Man with the Golden Gun.

2) Other than following the lead-in with vague interest as a Starlog magazine subscriber, curious to see they really could deliver on their promise that I would "believe a man can fly," the only thin that really stands out for me was that that film was really on the technical edge for its time. It wouldn't surprise me if the costumes had to be color-shifted to accommodate "blue screen" considerations. But still not seeing the parallel to our watch discussion here. Seems like learning that actors in black-and-white movies wore make-up that was more green than skin-colored.

3) Returning then to the wristwatches in Never Say Never Again, the publicity shot here could be as irrelevant as the famous air-pistol photo of Sean Connery as Bond from his Eon Productions tenure. Further to this point, one of the Octopussy posters shows James Bond wearing a gold watch, which had to be a consideration of far greater magnitude than the still we have here.

Do I believe then that watches could be missed by continuity in the Bond films? Yes. Is that what we could be talking about here? Again: Yes. However, the thing that continues to strike me most about this photograph is how similar the watch is, even though it is clearly different from the gadget-watch close-up. That's why I'm looking at it further. And why I thought it might be nice to resurrect this thread to share that with others who may be interested in the topic.

Look forward to the images you're preparing to post.

[Dekard77]

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The pics.

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