24 replies to this topic

[JamesCraig]

First of all, like many Bondfans, I really hate DAD. I was glad to see Pierce go, but at first I didn't like Craig, "the guy from Tomb Raider & Munich ???"

I was wrong. After seeing CR 20 times or so I still see it as one of the best Bondmovies ever. Is it perfect? No. Here are the "problems" I have:

1) David Arnold's score
2) PTS
3) The airport sequence lasted too long
4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

That's it. CR was a much needed reboot, even with it's few flaws.

Edited by JamesCraig, 22 January 2008 - 07:56 PM.

[vMc69]

First of all, like many Bondfans, I really hate DAD. I was glad to see Pierce go, but at first I didn't like Craig, "the guy from Tomb Raider & Munich ???"

I was wrong. After seeing CR 20 times or so I still see it as one of the best Bondmovies ever. Is it perfect? No. Here are the "problems" I have:

1) David Arnold's score
2) PTS
3) The airport sequence lasted too long
4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

That's it. CR was a much needed reboot, even with it's few flaws.

Yes you are right.
But, WHAT flaws?

[SPOTTER]

I liked Pierce Brosnan but the scripts he was given to work with were not great. I think that Daniel Craig's Bond has given the franchise a fresh approach. After watching Casino Royale i am really looking forward to the next film. I currently have put the film at number 4 in my all time favourite Bond movies. I personally love the pre credit sequence and the four main action sequences (Madagasga,Miami, Staircase,Venice) in the film are very exciting and original. People have said the running time for the film could have been a little shorter but i think that all Bond films should easily run over 2 hours. When you wait 3 or 4 years for one, you want to get your money's worth don't you?
A great Bond movie and a great movie in it's own right!

[Double-0 Seven]

Here are the "problems" I have:

1) David Arnold's score
2) PTS
3) The airport sequence lasted too long
4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

That's it. CR was a much needed reboot, even with it's few flaws.

Okay about the score. About the airport scene too but for a reason everyone will be agree i think, it's a scene for McClane not Bond.
It's the same thing about the "Parkour" scene and when Craig destroyed the wall : stupid and for a film who wants to be more realistic, it's missed !

PTS was superb and it's curious Martin Campbell didn't do it for Goldeneye...

Edited by Double-0 Seven, 23 January 2008 - 02:49 PM.

[Judo chop]

A concise review, JamesCraig.

[Harmsway]

What did you think went wrong with the PTS? IMO, that's one of the best sequences of the film.

[JamesCraig]

What did you think went wrong with the PTS? IMO, that's one of the best sequences of the film.

It was a bit too "cartoony" for me.

But Harmsway, you know me from another forum

[han4bond]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I haven't seen the term "PTS" before...

To what is that referring?

[Vauxhall]

It refers to the Pre Title Sequence

[JamesCraig]

EDIT: I meant the title sequence! The PTS was great!

Sorry folks!

[Harmsway]

EDIT: I meant the title sequence! The PTS was great!

Ah, that makes more sense.

[Emma]

Here are the "problems" I have:

1) David Arnold's score
2) PTS
3) The airport sequence lasted too long
4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

That's it. CR was a much needed reboot, even with it's few flaws.

Okay about the score. About the airport scene too but for a reason everyone will be agree i think, it's a scene for McClane not Bond.
It's the same thing about the "Parkour" scene and when Craig destroyed the wall : stupid and for a film who wants to be more realistic, it's missed !

PTS was superb and it's curious Martin Campbell didn't do it for Goldeneye...

I agree. The two action scenes in the beggining were way too long. Especially the first one which was over the top and to be frank silly. Bond might be a bit of a hot head. But he isn't stupid and that scene made him look just dumb, such as jumping in a bulldozer, shooting the terrorist in cold blood and without provoation when he told Carter he needed him alive. It was something more given to Bruce Willis' John McLane than Bond. I hope they do better with the next film.


I had no problems with the soundtrack and listen to it often.

[tdalton]

I agree. The two action scenes in the beggining were way too long. Especially the first one which was over the top and to be frank silly. Bond might be a bit of a hot head. But he isn't stupid and that scene made him look just dumb, such as jumping in a bulldozer, shooting the terrorist in cold blood and without provoation when he told Carter he needed him alive. It was something more given to Bruce Willis' John McLane than Bond. I hope they do better with the next film.

Completely agreed on the action sequences in CR. IMO, they were awful, and amongst the worst in the franchise. Also, as you say, Bond's actions in the free-running sequence don't make very much sense. And, in real life, he would have been fired and then probably prosecuted (especially since he was caught on film doing it) without even the slightest hesitation for storming into an embassy like that, yet he's allowed to continue in the employment of MI6 and then allowed to go out on an extremely important mission that probably should have been handled by another 00 agent.

[Bondian]

I agree that some of the actions scenes are absurd, but to keep the momentum and pace, any logic had to be suppressed. And remember, this is supposed to be Bond earning his 'OO' (swollen testicles) status, so he's bound to be a little stupid.

However. Two quite amateurish kills in the PTS wouldn't convince me that he'll ready to serve the country as a 'spy'.

Craig is great, but it's the film in general that makes it so entertaining for me.

[00Twelve]

I agree. The two action scenes in the beggining were way too long. Especially the first one which was over the top and to be frank silly. Bond might be a bit of a hot head. But he isn't stupid and that scene made him look just dumb, such as jumping in a bulldozer, shooting the terrorist in cold blood and without provoation when he told Carter he needed him alive. It was something more given to Bruce Willis' John McLane than Bond. I hope they do better with the next film.

Completely agreed on the action sequences in CR. IMO, they were awful, and amongst the worst in the franchise. Also, as you say, Bond's actions in the free-running sequence don't make very much sense. And, in real life, he would have been fired and then probably prosecuted (especially since he was caught on film doing it) without even the slightest hesitation for storming into an embassy like that, yet he's allowed to continue in the employment of MI6 and then allowed to go out on an extremely important mission that probably should have been handled by another 00 agent.

Ah, but Bond's the best player in the service. Bond was in serious danger of getting not only fired, but disavowed. M said so herself in her flat. She also remarked in the Bahamas that she wished she hadn't had to send him to Montenegro.

But then we'd have had no movie, would we?

I can't fathom how CR's early action sequences are "among the worst in the franchise". I suppose you must mean in terms of plot relevance or pacing, because the scenes themselves are widely acclaimed as the most impressive action work done in Bond films in decades (at least by nearly every fan and critic I've heard, but maybe I'm out of touch). Vic Armstrong's work didn't hold a candle to it, IMO.

And regarding shooting the bomber "in cold blood" (I believe the man had tried to kill him not ten minutes earlier), he was painted into a corner, so to speak. No way out but to cause a diversion, and he impulsively chose to rid the world of one bomb maker. And it was clearly a dumb move. They obviously wanted to show that Bond didn't always think rationally. Perhaps you think they went about that in a severely flawed way, but there it is. There was no way they were gonna please everybody.

Better luck next time in QOS.

[tdalton]

I agree. The two action scenes in the beggining were way too long. Especially the first one which was over the top and to be frank silly. Bond might be a bit of a hot head. But he isn't stupid and that scene made him look just dumb, such as jumping in a bulldozer, shooting the terrorist in cold blood and without provoation when he told Carter he needed him alive. It was something more given to Bruce Willis' John McLane than Bond. I hope they do better with the next film.

Completely agreed on the action sequences in CR. IMO, they were awful, and amongst the worst in the franchise. Also, as you say, Bond's actions in the free-running sequence don't make very much sense. And, in real life, he would have been fired and then probably prosecuted (especially since he was caught on film doing it) without even the slightest hesitation for storming into an embassy like that, yet he's allowed to continue in the employment of MI6 and then allowed to go out on an extremely important mission that probably should have been handled by another 00 agent.

Ah, but Bond's the best player in the service. Bond was in serious danger of getting not only fired, but disavowed. M said so herself in her flat. She also remarked in the Bahamas that she wished she hadn't had to send him to Montenegro.

But then we'd have had no movie, would we?

They could have done without having Bond do things that would have, at best, gotten him fired, and most likely tried before some form of international court or military tribunal. Bond not only compromised national security by breaking into M's residence (which should have resulted in immediate dismissal from the service), but also committed an international crime by basically blasting through the embassy. I actually find Moonraker in its entirety to be less absurd than this chain of events in Casino Royale.

I can't fathom how CR's early action sequences are "among the worst in the franchise". I suppose you must mean in terms of plot relevance or pacing, because the scenes themselves are widely acclaimed as the most impressive action work done in Bond films in decades (at least by nearly every fan and critic I've heard, but maybe I'm out of touch). Vic Armstrong's work didn't hold a candle to it, IMO.

I do mean it partly in terms of plot relevance and pacing, but also in terms of the conception of the basic ideas as well. I really just can't find anything that I like about the free-running sequence, and the Miami sequence could have been better if it was significantly shortened and had it made any logistic sense what so ever. There is no way that Bond would have been released from police custody in that situation because he had already blasted through an embassy, and now he was the suspect in a failed terrorist plot. MI6 would, and should, have disavowed him right there (although he should have been fired and prosecuted at least a half an hour earlier in the film).

The action work in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, as the second unit is only filming what they've been told to, and they did the best that they could with some very lousy material.

[Harmsway]

They could have done without having Bond do things that would have, at best, gotten him fired, and most likely tried before some form of international court or military tribunal.

Indeed they could have, but I don't think that's really a major flaw. It's no more ridiculous than Bond returning to duty after being brainwashed by a foreign power - in fact, it's significantly less so.

I do mean it partly in terms of plot relevance and pacing, but also in terms of the conception of the basic ideas as well. I really just can't find anything that I like about the free-running sequence, and the Miami sequence could have been better if it was significantly shortened and had it made any logistic sense what so ever.

I don't quite get this. The stunts and cinematography, IMO, is phenomenal throughout all the CASINO ROYALE sequences. I especially adore the section in the Madagascar chase where Bond pursues Mollaka through the under-construction building (the slide through the hole in the floor is quite cool).

There is no way that Bond would have been released from police custody in that situation because he had already blasted through an embassy, and now he was the suspect in a failed terrorist plot.

Nobody knew he was the embassy shooter (his face was not photographed). And being a suspect in a failed terrorist plot is easily cleared once it's established that he was, in fact, the hero of the whole thing (easily established through patching together CCTV footage, and MI6 would vouch for it seeing as he was on telephone with M during the affair).

[Royal Dalton]

Nobody knew he was the embassy shooter (his face was not photographed).

Which was a bit of luck, considering he was facing the camera when he was pulling Mollaka towards the gate.

[Turn]

And so the backlash begins. People are coming out against the action sequences in CR? I'm with 00Twelve on this one. There hasn't been a Bond film in ages that got off to as rousing a start as CR did.

As far as the Parkour sequence, it harkens back to when the series introduced something little known or new and, forgive the pun, ran with it. It's just what the film needed after a short, tight and compelling PTS and was a very nice switch from the overlong, overblown and frankly boring PTSs of the last couple films.

How is the rookie 00 Bond's conduct in CR any worse than in most of the other films in the series? In films like DAF in racing around Vegas, GE in a tank mangling half of St. Petersburg, driving a car off a garage in TND or countless other examples he's putting innocent people in danger on a mission.

Bond was on a mission in CR, accomplished his objective by getting information that eventually saved lives at the embassy while his life was in danger, and by stopping the bomber in Miami also saved numerous lives. Seems like he's doing his job to me.

[00Twelve]

While I totally sympathize with those who'd like to see some more "real world" in Bond, if we're going for even more realism (even the most "down-to-earth" Fleming adventures were fantastical), we'd be better off as Maugham fans. IMO, naturally.

[sharpshooter]

3) The airport sequence lasted too long

Agree

[AngryPolarBear]

Completely agreed on the action sequences in CR. IMO, they were awful, and amongst the worst in the franchise.

Completely disagree. The action scenes in CR is definitely one of the best in the whole franchise. In fact it's among the best I've ever seen in a action film.

The fights feels so brutal and real. I could almost feel the pain when Bond crashed Dryden's contact through the bathroom stalls or when he beat the crap out of those African guys in the stairwell. I love a good fight, and it was a pleasure to watch.

The free running sequence was hectic and spectacular, where we got the contrast between Mollakas speed and agility, and Bond's roughness and stamina.

The climatic battle was also very good. Bond using the surroundings to beat his opponents, which results in killing them with nail guns, an electrical cable and firing at those things that kept the building stable (what is it called)? With the building falling to pieces, we got more than just a standard shoot out in the finale.

After watching Brosnan machine gun himself through endless forces off lousy thugs and witnessing many silly "action" scenes in the Moore era, it was good to finally get some brilliant action. I applaud the people making it come true.

[HH007]

4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

I disagree with that. I thought, if anything, they could have spent more time on the Bond/Vesper relationship.

Completely agreed on the action sequences in CR. IMO, they were awful, and amongst the worst in the franchise.

Completely disagree. The action scenes in CR is definitely one of the best in the whole franchise. In fact it's among the best I've ever seen in a action film.

The fights feels so brutal and real. I could almost feel the pain when Bond crashed Dryden's contact through the bathroom stalls or when he beat the crap out of those African guys in the stairwell. I love a good fight, and it was a pleasure to watch.

The free running sequence was hectic and spectacular, where we got the contrast between Mollakas speed and agility, and Bond's roughness and stamina.

The climatic battle was also very good. Bond using the surroundings to beat his opponents, which results in killing them with nail guns, an electrical cable and firing at those things that kept the building stable (what is it called)? With the building falling to pieces, we got more than just a standard shoot out in the finale.

After watching Brosnan machine gun himself through endless forces off lousy thugs and witnessing many silly "action" scenes in the Moore era, it was good to finally get some brilliant action. I applaud the people making it come true.

I do agree there, CR had the best ing action scenes of the franchise. And I mean THE BEST.

[tdalton]

4) The scenes in Venice lasted too long

I disagree with that. I thought, if anything, they could have spent more time on the Bond/Vesper relationship.

Completely agreed with you on this point. Given that they had two extraordinary actors in the lead roles in this film (Craig and Green), they should have been given much more time on screen together. For me, the best parts of CASINO ROYALE are the scenes in which Craig and Green are on screen together, and there should have been much more of those scenes in the film.

[AngryPolarBear]

That I agree on. More time on Vesper and Bond would've definitely been sweet. But as I've mentioned, I think it's pretty weird to say that action in CR is amongst the worst in series.