49 replies to this topic

[David007]

i think it would have been better, dalton is one of my favorite james bonds ever. i think his style would be nice for this movie, brosnan is cool and his movie was one of my favs

[LadySylvia]

The question's in the heading. Some fans feel GE would have been a better film with Dalton still in the lead as Bond. However, like Pierce or not, with the same type of marketing (Bond returns) and in the exact same movie we got would Dalton's presence have really made a difference at the box office? Yes the US performance of LTK and the supposed inisistence of MGM to go with Brosnan give an answer but I'd like to ask fans if, all things considered would this have been the case?

I don't know if GOLDENEYE would have been better with Dalton.

[coco1997]

Ultimately, it comes down to this: are you kidding? NO WAY would the film have been more successful with Dalton. Would it have been a better film? Probably--but that's only because Dalton upends Brosnan in every possible way. But if you think it would have been anywhere near as successful with Dalton, then you fail to account for the massive excitement surrounding Brosnan's casting as Bond and how it contributed to the whole "Bond is back" reinvigoration of the series.

Edited by coco1997, 11 December 2007 - 07:34 AM.

[Byron]

Ultimately, it comes down to this: are you kidding? NO WAY would the film have been more successful with Dalton. Would it have been a better film? Probably--but that's only because Dalton upends Brosnan in every possible way. But if you think it would have been anywhere near as successful with Dalton, then you fail to account for the massive excitement surrounding Brosnan's casting as Bond and how it contributed to the whole "Bond is back" reinvigoration of the series.

I'm late to this thread but as originally written for Dalton, GE had some amazing action scenes including an Aston Martin / TGV high speed train chase one. With a great script by Mike France, a much larger film and advertising budget (compared to the measly LTK one), a long gap between films, fresh blood behind the scenes and perhaps a more relaxed and light hearted Dalton Bond, i think GE may have come very close to being as successful as Brozza's end product. And it would have been a much better film for having Dalton in it, a far superior Bond. It would have also brought closure to his tenure.

If Cubby hadn't been sick at the time i believe Dalton would have been Bond in GE.

[baerrtt]

Ultimately, it comes down to this: are you kidding? NO WAY would the film have been more successful with Dalton. Would it have been a better film? Probably--but that's only because Dalton upends Brosnan in every possible way. But if you think it would have been anywhere near as successful with Dalton, then you fail to account for the massive excitement surrounding Brosnan's casting as Bond and how it contributed to the whole "Bond is back" reinvigoration of the series.

I'm late to this thread but as originally written for Dalton, GE had some amazing action scenes including an Aston Martin / TGV high speed train chase one. With a great script by Mike France, a much larger film and advertising budget (compared to the measly LTK one), a long gap between films, fresh blood behind the scenes and perhaps a more relaxed and light hearted Dalton Bond, i think GE may have come very close to being as successful as Brozza's end product. And it would have been a much better film for having Dalton in it, a far superior Bond. It would have also brought closure to his tenure.

If Cubby hadn't been sick at the time i believe Dalton would have been Bond in GE.

MGM (or John Calley) saw to it that Dalton wasn't going to come back no matter how much (or if) EON wanted him. The general public at large didn't see Dalton as a 'superior' Bond unfortunately in his two previous entries, they expected more of the same with an actor who was naturally easier doing the light hearted stuff and (this is only opinion) easier on the eyes, basically Brosnan. Yes I truly, in light CR's ironic success, feel sorry for Dalton as he attempted that territory at the wrong time (late 80s), but the public perception essentially was all that mattered at the time.

[triviachamp]

It's UA folks! I see all the MGM propaganda is working.

I've seen people suggest the lions in CR'67 was a reference to Bond being MGM which is completely false.

[Emma]

Quite Strange how Dalton was not much of a commercial success as Bond, as much as Connery or Moore were, now nearly everyone is singing his praises. Where were you all back in '87 and '89?

Not all of us. I really think most of the people who sing Dalton's praises are the same elitist posters here who seem to have a pathological hate of Pierce Brosnan.

I liked the TLD when it came out, and hated LTK. However last year when I sat sat down to watch the films I found that TLD did not stand up. Nothing to do with Dalton. The film suffered from too much political correctness (no more bed hopping for Bond) and it just did work. And I could not get through LTK.

I have nothing against Dalton, but he was just too serious and had no charm one associates with Bond. James Bond to me at least the film version is not supposed to behave as if he's constipated. By the way I did not like GE either. It was after I started posting on CBN that I discovered that the script was originally meant for Dalton.

[HH007]

Quite Strange how Dalton was not much of a commercial success as Bond, as much as Connery or Moore were, now nearly everyone is singing his praises. Where were you all back in '87 and '89?

Not all of us. I really think most of the people who sing Dalton's praises are the same elitist posters here who seem to have a pathological hate of Pierce Brosnan.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't hate Pierce Brosnan. I thought he was a good fit for the role, it's just with the exception of GE, I felt the scripts and the filmmakers let him down. He never got that shot at a great Bond film that I personally wish he could've had, in my humble opinion, of course. I'm not trying to be elitist in my view of the Brosnan era, that's just how I honestly feel. (I felt that way during his era, before Brosnan bashing was in style)

A large part my fondness for Dalton comes from the fact that he was my first Bond. TLD was the first Bond flick I ever saw and LTK was the first one I saw in a theater. (at the ages of 7 and 8, respectively) So for a long time, he was my Bond. Having re-watched his films recently, I still think he was a very good Bond and I still like his movies (even LTK, which seems to divide a lot of audiences). So I agree with the notion that he was a Bond ahead of his time.

[d0uble0_7]

To date, the franchise has yet to have a lousy pick for a Bond actor. Although, some have better than others. There has yet to be one not successful. So yes, I think Goldeneye would have been successful with Dalton.

[Turn]

Quite Strange how Dalton was not much of a commercial success as Bond, as much as Connery or Moore were, now nearly everyone is singing his praises. Where were you all back in '87 and '89?

Not all of us. I really think most of the people who sing Dalton's praises are the same elitist posters here who seem to have a pathological hate of Pierce Brosnan.

I liked the TLD when it came out, and hated LTK. However last year when I sat sat down to watch the films I found that TLD did not stand up. Nothing to do with Dalton. The film suffered from too much political correctness (no more bed hopping for Bond) and it just did work. And I could not get through LTK.

I have nothing against Dalton, but he was just too serious and had no charm one associates with Bond. James Bond to me at least the film version is not supposed to behave as if he's constipated. By the way I did not like GE either. It was after I started posting on CBN that I discovered that the script was originally meant for Dalton.

I've been a Dalton supporter since 1986. It's an interesting thing because a lot of us liked him and only to see him pulled away in '94 to be replaced by Brosnan. All you heard at the time GE was released was that Brosnan was born to play the role and good riddance to Dalton, which you still hear from time to time.

It's funny how Brosnan is now somewhat in that position. He did fine with the role and I was glad he was successful. Personally speaking, I don't think his hybrid of past Bond actors did anything more interesting than Dalton did or that Craig now is doing.

If that makes me an elitist, so be it.

[Mr. Blofeld]

GoldenEye and Timothy Dalton: A match made in heaven...

...unfortunately, was not to be.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Quite Strange how Dalton was not much of a commercial success as Bond, as much as Connery or Moore were, now nearly everyone is singing his praises. Where were you all back in '87 and '89?

Not all of us. I really think most of the people who sing Dalton's praises are the same elitist posters here who seem to have a pathological hate of Pierce Brosnan.

I liked the TLD when it came out, and hated LTK. However last year when I sat sat down to watch the films I found that TLD did not stand up. Nothing to do with Dalton. The film suffered from too much political correctness (no more bed hopping for Bond) and it just did work. And I could not get through LTK.

I have nothing against Dalton, but he was just too serious and had no charm one associates with Bond. James Bond to me at least the film version is not supposed to behave as if he's constipated. By the way I did not like GE either. It was after I started posting on CBN that I discovered that the script was originally meant for Dalton.

I've been a Dalton supporter since 1986. It's an interesting thing because a lot of us liked him and only to see him pulled away in '94 to be replaced by Brosnan. All you heard at the time GE was released was that Brosnan was born to play the role and good riddance to Dalton, which you still hear from time to time.

It's funny how Brosnan is now somewhat in that position. He did fine with the role and I was glad he was successful. Personally speaking, I don't think his hybrid of past Bond actors did anything more interesting than Dalton did or that Craig now is doing.

If that makes me an elitist, so be it.

Well put, Turn. My sentiments exactly.

GoldenEye and Timothy Dalton: A match made in heaven...

...unfortunately, was not to be.

Ditto, Mr. Blofeld.

As to the main question, if Dalton had returned in GoldenEye after the long gap, I do believe the film would have still been a moneymaker as TLD and LTK were. But I do not think it probably would have been as financially successful as the Brosnan GE because of the "Dalton was a flop as Bond and caused the hiatus" perception that existed at that time. The 6 year hiatus plus all the hype that comes with being a "new Bond" probably helped GE's box office in 1995. In retrospect, it's too bad Dalton hadn't made GE for a Christmas 1991 release. I think that would've been a hit and Dalton would be more highly regarded than he is.

[Mr. Blofeld]

GoldenEye and Timothy Dalton: A match made in heaven...

...unfortunately, was not to be.

Ditto, Mr. Blofeld.

As to the main question, if Dalton had returned in GoldenEye after the long gap, I do believe the film would have still been a moneymaker as TLD and LTK were. But I do not think it probably would have been as financially successful as the Brosnan GE because of the "Dalton was a flop as Bond and caused the hiatus" perception that existed at that time. The 6 year hiatus plus all the hype that comes with being a "new Bond" probably helped GE's box office in 1995. In retrospect, it's too bad Dalton hadn't made GE for a Christmas 1991 release. I think that would've been a hit and Dalton would be more highly regarded than he is.

Well, at the time, I think the whole wrangling between EON and Pathe would have made that unlikely.

[Harry Fawkes]

Timothy Dalton in Goldeneye would have made the film ten times better than it was. As for financial success, if EON promoted the film with the same budget used to promote Pierce Brosnan as Bond back then, yes it would have been too. Dalton was a bloody good Bond. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Harry Fawkes MRQ

[stamper]

Goldeneye was supposed to be James Bond in the new world

Instead it was Remington Steele in James Bond clothing in a new world

With TD, it WOULD have been james Bond in the new world, with much more resonance to every scene.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Goldeneye was supposed to be James Bond in the new world

Instead it was Remington Steele in James Bond clothing in a new world

With TD, it WOULD have been james Bond in the new world, with much more resonance to every scene.

I heartily agree with you, sir.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I was a fan of Timothy Dalton as James Bond since 1978

Edited by Stephen Spotswood, 17 December 2007 - 04:06 PM.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Goldeneye was supposed to be James Bond in the new world

Instead it was Remington Steele in James Bond clothing in a new world

Well put. I tend to consider GoldenEye as Pierce Brosnan's extended screen test for the role. Then, Tomorrow Never Dies is Brosnan's film debut as Remington Steele playing Roger Moore playing Bond.

With TD, it WOULD have been james Bond in the new world, with much more resonance to every scene.

Agreed. GE was written with Dalton in mind and it shows. TND tends to work better for Brosnan than GE did IMHO.

[WatchtheBirdy]

Ok.

I was thinking about this thread today. If Dalton had returned for GE in '95, I think the success would be the same.

Yep, the same. Why, you may ask. Well, I think it's because of the N64 game for Goldeneye, which was a smash hit, and it was pretty much why the Bond series become more well known. Sure, the box office sales woulb be different, but I don't think the video game sales would change much, methinks.

Just my two cents.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Well, I liked GoldenEye, and Brosnan was great in it, but I prefer Dalton to Brosnan and I always think it would have been superb with Tim but I don't think it would have been as successfull because Brosnan was more popular with the public. I think they already liked him very much with the Remington Steel show.